Your favorite game system you wish had more success?

[Alai]

Have you ever seen the original Hero Wars? I’ve never been able to track down a copy of the first printing. I understand that it was full of errors but the information in the supplements always suggested to me it might have been better than subsequent editions.

I think there's a lot to like about the supplements. Or most of them, at least. And much to weep bitter tears of regret about too! Of course Chaosium -- who just happen to now own them -- very much disagree, so they'll never see the light of day again.

HW itself is indeed a slightly different configuration of the previously described dog's dinner. Broadly speaking it has the most of any of the editions attempts at crunchy and Glorantha-specific bolt-ons. Few of them successful, IMO. For example there were things called "Edges" that didn't appear in convention previews, or the playtest... or in HQ1, HQ2, or HQG. There was even circulating at the time (I don't recall whether it was ever officially published) a grand cosmological table of resistances. Need to beat up (or become) Orlanth? Or become one with the infinite? Then we had numbers! (Or zero-significant-figure ballparks for the numbers, at least.) Interesting, yes. But about eight feet away from the core of the design, and not at all integrated with it.

But in theory that might have been a way to go, as I mentioned previously. Whereas HQ2 very much went the other way, looking to be a pure narrative-style generic game. And QuestWorlds That Is Yet To Be, even more thus, being much the same, only much more explicitly toolkitty. I wonder if it's missed its window of opportunity, though.

 

[Vile Traveller]

It always amused me how Moon Design HW/HQ was a far superior system for modelling Glorantha than RQ, until they took over Chaosium and got back the rights and suddenly RQ2 was the best way of modelling Glorantha again.

 

[Jenx]

For me mostly Supers games.

1) Golden Heroes has had a couple of clones (Codename Spandex and Squadron UK) but doesn't get much mention these days (its getting on a bit). The combat system plays extremely well by post and the old school/street level feel (a gunshot will hurt you unless you have certain levels of protection) means you have to be smart about who to take on. The character creation could do with a revamp. I generally found the PCs rolled up 'ok' or 'crap' with not much variation in the middle. Some kind of power level to apply to the stats and powers might be a thing so Street Level has its own power table, low super (Daredevil, Spider-Man, Luke Cage etc) gets its own, Avengers (including Street level elevated to this level. Spider-man doesn't get the tar beaten out of him anywhere near as much when he's in the Avengers than his own book, where he's pretty much thrashed every issue).

2) Marvel Universe RPG. The diceless one. It needs dice or a randomiser of some kind. I played and GM'd it for years on the MURPG board and burned out a little on the game but it plays well by post.... to a point. Where it breaks is using all your energy in the first round and having nothing left for the rest of the fight. Then it becomes more important that you get free stones (modifiers) or recover red energy stones faster than your opponent. Dice for your Stats and Actions and a different effect (rerolling a die?) for the red energy stones might work. Sure, it becomes yet another RPG then but they tried a diceless game, it didn't work very well, or at least enough to catch on. Probably the same with most diceless games (Amber etc).

3) Champions 3rd Edition. The sweet spot, before the dark times. Before Bullet Stoppers. Sure the big blue book gets some love but its on the hefty side and 5e onwards are just eye rollingly bloated. Lay the thing out again, do something to remove the 1/4 and 1/2 cost thing (to make it more appealing rather than instantly putting people off with 'Wait. Is this a maths game?') and make it almost totally compatible with published stuff.

4) DC Heroes 2e, 3e, Blood of Heroes 2e. More or less the same game. I've been playing without the table and with D12s for years now and it works. It's faster, it doesn't break, it's 100% compatible with published stuff and writeups. Hero points work differently, skills work (if you ever played the game you'll know what linked skills are good for. Not much really, save to cancel out an unskilled bonus) and it plays well by post. We switched from Golden Heroes to DC Heroes then house ruled about 7 years ago and the system scales from zero to hero. No more 'all your stats in this column are the same'. The way things are done now every stat is it's 'own column' in effect. Purists will complain about lack of tables, it's not the same and so on and that's fine. It's worked for me and the players for years and will continue to do so. We're into year 13 of the campaign (started October 2009).

Regardless of my house rules the game engine (MEGs) needs to be kept out there. Mutants and Masterminds 3e used the every AP doubles mechanic but is practically impenetrable to me due to character creation slog. Your mileage may vary, and more power to you if you love it. I tried, couldn't.

5) Tunnels and Trolls. It needs a shorter version (corgi book?) or boxed set. Sort out the missile rules so someone can understand without re-reading. Get Liz Danforth on board. Art, ideas, editing. Unify the look. This colour for the base stuff/rules, this for low level adventures, this for medium and so on. Expand the game world with campaign books including a war between a returning Khazan and everyone. Sell a large cube of dice. You'll need 'em. Do something with it. Webbed Sphere, the current owners, have done nothing. Steve Crompton (one of the DT&T crew) tries to push Monsters! Monsters! but it doesn't have the appeal of T&T for various reasons. There is a gap in the market for a rules lite dungeon crawler box set to start new players off. Once upon a time that was Basic D&D. T&T has always been 'that game with the silly spell names' and a bit... amateurish. Spend money on art and layout and kickstart it. With all the upheaval about OGL and licenses people are making a move from D&D, there is a narrow window to capitalise and WOTC might try something underhanded again.

There are probably others but those are main ones for me.

EDIT: Crimson Skies. Deserved an RPG, TV show, film, more video games, updated board games the full 9 yards. Great IP. Now in the wilderness and remembered only by old farts.

 

[ffilz]

It always amused me how Moon Design HW/HQ was a far superior system for modelling Glorantha than RQ, until they took over Chaosium and got back the rights and suddenly RQ2 was the best way of modelling Glorantha again.

Heh...

Personally I think the version of RQ that best models the setting is RQ1 plus Cults of Prax... Because the Glorantha I fell in love with is the Glorantha implied by those two books. Well, add in bits and pieces from other supplements. Ultimately that is why I can ride the various waves that Glorantha has gone through and ignore the cultural anthropology wonks. Sadly it seems that very few folks have followed the path I have followed, with most folks either giving up on Glorantha because of all the Gregging and cultural anthropology wanking or jumping to each latest installment of the "perfect RPG for Glorantha." Thankfully I have no problems finding players and have been able to keep players engaged who do follow the latest trends. My longest active player has even commented that he appreciates the differences between my Glorantha and that of RQG, though he can enjoy both.

Personally I found the Hero Wars and Hero Quest systems so unappealing that I didn't even try running them.

 

[E-Rocker]

The game system I wish had had more success is the homebrew game I tried to create a few years back. It was not good at all and needed a lot of work, but our playtest mini-campaign died out not because the game was bad, but because that whole group got very busy with real-life stuff and we just didn't have time to playtest anymore. I would have liked to at least get the game to a second iteration.

 

[Sharrow]

Heh...

Personally I think the version of RQ that best models the setting is RQ1 plus Cults of Prax... Because the Glorantha I fell in love with is the Glorantha implied by those two books. Well, add in bits and pieces from other supplements. Ultimately that is why I can ride the various waves that Glorantha has gone through and ignore the cultural anthropology wonks. Sadly it seems that very few folks have followed the path I have followed, with most folks either giving up on Glorantha because of all the Gregging and cultural anthropology wanking or jumping to each latest installment of the "perfect RPG for Glorantha." Thankfully I have no problems finding players and have been able to keep players engaged who do follow the latest trends. My longest active player has even commented that he appreciates the differences between my Glorantha and that of RQG, though he can enjoy both.

Personally I found the Hero Wars and Hero Quest systems so unappealing that I didn't even try running them.

Whereas I never got my hands on Cults of Prax, but had RQ2 and Cults of Terror, so for me that's what best describes the tone of Glorantha. That and the memories of a campaign set in Beast Valley (with that name it seemed appropriate) in which the PCs were all various kinds of lycanthrope trying to 1) avopid persecution by humans (who thought that the PCs were chaotic and nasty), and 2) deal with Broos and other things that were clearly chaotic and nasty.

Long before any of those White Wolf games, I might add.

 

[Teyrnon]

I'd love it if Cinematic Unisystem was still actively supported and got more love from the fans. Another game I wouldn't mind seeing making a big comeback is Toon. I played a few one-shots of that back in the early 90s and there were references back to those games for the next three decades among my fellow players.

 

[ffilz]

Whereas I never got my hands on Cults of Prax, but had RQ2 and Cults of Terror, so for me that's what best describes the tone of Glorantha. That and the memories of a campaign set in Beast Valley (with that name it seemed appropriate) in which the PCs were all various kinds of lycanthrope trying to 1) avopid persecution by humans (who thought that the PCs were chaotic and nasty), and 2) deal with Broos and other things that were clearly chaotic and nasty.

Long before any of those White Wolf games, I might add.

Interesting. I have a hard time conceiving of running Glorantha with just Cults of Terror, though with RQ2 you do at least have functional cults for Orlanth and Kyger Litor (the RQ1 versions are rather sparse), and Black Fang Brotherhood fits nicely with Cults of Terror. What cults did your PCs follow?

 

[Silverlion]

EDIT: Crimson Skies. Deserved an RPG, TV show, film, more video games, updated board games the full 9 yards. Great IP. Now in the wilderness and remembered only by old farts.

I wholeheartedly agree with this as a fan of "Catch That Pigeon" and its old crazy WWI designs, Crimson Skies drew me like a flame, but I never got any miniatures for it because of the expense and because I'm an TRPG gamer more than a Miniature gamer, loved the video game would love to see say Warbirds adapted for the setting (or any good plane to plane combat+pulp RPG)

 

[Sharrow]

Interesting. I have a hard time conceiving of running Glorantha with just Cults of Terror, though with RQ2 you do at least have functional cults for Orlanth and Kyger Litor (the RQ1 versions are rather sparse), and Black Fang Brotherhood fits nicely with Cults of Terror. What cults did your PCs follow?

Mostly they were Orlanthi and some related hoomebrew ones fighting badies from Cults of Terror, aside from that Lycanthrope game in which I think we did up some cults for them (the notes for which are long-lost) that were based on the Dark Brotherhood as a template as I recall. 'Twas the days of home-brewing to cover the gaping holes in available published material, after all.

There was some thought of a game where everyone would be a member of a Thanatar cult, where the players would be from the three different sub-cults, thus providing lots of opportunity for politics and backstabbing, but then we left high school and scattered to the four winds, so that never happened.

 

[Caesar Slaad]

Two answers here.

First, to the question as intended: Gumshoe. I get it, ideas like "never rolling to find a clue" and "expending stats to get bonuses" are stretches for some folks, but games like Night's Black Agents, Timewatch, and Swords of the Serpentine are really well done, enjoyable games.

Second, what I kind of really wish: Fate, PbtA, Forged in the Dark. "But Caesar", you say, "those games are already pretty well known." Yeah, for indie games. But they are still small potatoes compared to the big kahuna D&D, and there are still folks who would rather play some 5e supers or SF or cyberpunk respin than, say, Cyberpunk. And I think that's a shame.

 

[Alai]

Whereas I never got my hands on Cults of Prax, but had RQ2 and Cults of Terror, so for me that's what best describes the tone of Glorantha.

Interesting (indeed). Almost sounds like a sort of Bronze-Age CoC: PCs with (presumably) very limited access to magic, and Chaos Horrors with rune magic and Gifts of Chaos up the proverbial wazoo.

That and the memories of a campaign set in Beast Valley (with that name it seemed appropriate) in which the PCs were all various kinds of lycanthrope trying to 1) avopid persecution by humans (who thought that the PCs were chaotic and nasty), and 2) deal with Broos and other things that were clearly chaotic and nasty.

Sounds rather cool. And not even wildly off-canon. You could by way of a Cope say they were a hsunchen minority among the 'true' Beastmen, or that they were Beast People with some sort of shapechange-to-human innate ability/magic/curse.

Mostly they were Orlanthi and some related hoomebrew ones fighting badies from Cults of Terror, aside from that Lycanthrope game in which I think we did up some cults for them (the notes for which are long-lost) that were based on the Dark Brotherhood as a template as I recall. 'Twas the days of home-brewing to cover the gaping holes in available published material, after all.

Was there a Telmor writeup of any kind available around at that point? That scheme hasn't really changed much over the decades! (Well, its RQ incarnation, at least. Your Dragon Pass and HW/HQ/QW woofs and other furries WV....)

Personally I think the version of RQ that best models the setting is RQ1 plus Cults of Prax... Because the Glorantha I fell in love with is the Glorantha implied by those two books. Well, add in bits and pieces from other supplements. Ultimately that is why I can ride the various waves that Glorantha has gone through and ignore the cultural anthropology wonks.

Glorantha minus the cultural anthropology wonkery = no setting at all. Obviously you're entirely at liberty to pick-and-choose which parts of the cultural anthropology wonkery (and worse things besides!) you prefer. YGWV. Another decidedly late-order concept, I know...

It always amused me how Moon Design HW/HQ was a far superior system for modelling Glorantha than RQ, until they took over Chaosium and got back the rights and suddenly RQ2 was the best way of modelling Glorantha again.

I guess you could say "which parts?" if you were being kind, or "the one we're punting at the minute" if you're being less charitable.

But Moon Design didn't originate HW. That was Greg (and whoever his "closely held company" partners were at that point) under the Issaries, Inc. imprint. So for Moon Design it was what they had to work with.

I think the Designium would acknowledge (have acknowledged?) that there was a definite "steering into it" regarding the decision to go as heavy on RQ and in particular on the "2" flavour as they did. So credit/blame to all the people that rushed out and bought the "classic" reprints!

 

[Smithnikov]

We found ourselves a FATAL fan!

Okay, EXCEPT Fatal or anything by Venger Satanis....

 

[ffilz]

Glorantha minus the cultural anthropology wonkery = no setting at all. Obviously you're entirely at liberty to pick-and-choose which parts of the cultural anthropology wonkery (and worse things besides!) you prefer. YGWV. Another decidedly late-order concept, I know...

What part of the cultural anthropology wonkery is necessary to have a setting at all? There's always some setting unless the characters are purely represented by numbers. But I don't care what the social structure is, or at least I don't care for all the wonkery about it. The social structure of Sartar in my Glorantha is a pseudo European medieval with some bowing to the claim of "bronze age." Prax is some kind of tribal structure maybe sort of informed by the natives of the North American plains, but not really. The Lunar Empire is maybe Roman? Maybe something else? I don't run in the Lunar Empire so they are just imperialistic occupiers of Sartar and Prax (I play more or less in the RQ2 timeline).

 

[Alai]

Second, what I kind of really wish: Fate, PbtA, Forged in the Dark. "But Caesar", you say, "those games are already pretty well known." Yeah, for indie games. But they are still small potatoes compared to the big kahuna D&D, and there are still folks who would rather play some 5e supers or SF or cyberpunk respin than, say, Cyberpunk. And I think that's a shame.

I feel this too. It's something of a shame we never ended up with a 800lb gorilla of The Type of Game Formerly Known as 'Narrativist'(*). Partly as I like different parts of several of those you mention (and QW!), and fondly imagine there's some ideal hybrid that has all their strengths, and none of their weaknesses. And partly as I think it would be nice to have lingua franca for that style of game, rather than just 57 slightly different flavours of dwarves.

(*) Before Ron Edwards ruined the chances of ever being able to use that word in a sentence without ~ironic scare quotes~, some sort of hedge, or a pedantic footnote.

 

[Alai]

What part of the cultural anthropology wonkery is necessary to have a setting at all?

To have this setting. Cultural anthropology wonkery documentedly started over a decade before RQ ever did.

 

[PolarBlues]

Second, what I kind of really wish: Fate, PbtA, Forged in the Dark. "But Caesar", you say, "those games are already pretty well known." Yeah, for indie games. But they are still small potatoes compared to the big kahuna D&D, and there are still folks who would rather play some 5e supers or SF or cyberpunk respin than, say, Cyberpunk. And I think that's a shame.

Pfft, Fate? Forged in the Dark? Those are HOT games. You try pitching Fudge to players.

Actually, that's not quite true. I really can't complain. I've been extremely fortunate finding players (in real life and online) willing to take a chance and play in my Fudge-based games, a system which I think we can agree is pretty firmly in the tragically unfashionable category. Maybe, despite the horror stories, roleplayers are more open minded than we give them credit for?

 

[chuckdee]

Two answers here.

First, to the question as intended: Gumshoe. I get it, ideas like "never rolling to find a clue" and "expending stats to get bonuses" are stretches for some folks, but games like Night's Black Agents, Timewatch, and Swords of the Serpentine are really well done, enjoyable games.

Second, what I kind of really wish: Fate, PbtA, Forged in the Dark. "But Caesar", you say, "those games are already pretty well known." Yeah, for indie games. But they are still small potatoes compared to the big kahuna D&D, and there are still folks who would rather play some 5e supers or SF or cyberpunk respin than, say, Cyberpunk. And I think that's a shame.

 

[Toadmaster]

EDIT: Crimson Skies. Deserved an RPG, TV show, film, more video games, updated board games the full 9 yards. Great IP. Now in the wilderness and remembered only by old farts.

Crimson Skies should have gotten an RPG, it seems an amazing oversight that it didn't.

 

[chuckdee]

Probably the same with most diceless games (Amber etc).

Heh. I'd not include Amber and its ilk in with the others. It's quite successful. Not as successful as the 800 lb gorilla, but until Steve Russell died, Lords of Gossamer and Shadow was doing quite well, and is still played a lot even without support.

 

[ffilz]

To have this setting. Cultural anthropology wonkery documentedly started over a decade before RQ ever did.

Well, the wonkery that started before RQ came out (or at least before White Bear & Red Moon came out) was just Greg Stafford playing around (well, maybe a few other folks participated?) The wonkery I get tired of is what goes on in the fan community. And since the only Greg Stafford wonkery I had when I started was what little is in the RQ1 book plus Cults of Prax (a bit later) I really have my own Glorantha. And heck, I probably ignore a lot of what's in those two sources... Not that I never pick up bits really from anywhere, but I don't obsess over the cultural anthropology.

 

[Ronin]

Crimson Skies should have gotten an RPG, it seems an amazing oversight that it didn't.

Completely agree!

 

[Gringnr]

1) Golden Heroes has had a couple of clones (Codename Spandex and Squadron UK) but doesn't get much mention these days (its getting on a bit). The combat system plays extremely well by post and the old school/street level feel (a gunshot will hurt you unless you have certain levels of protection) means you have to be smart about who to take on. The character creation could do with a revamp. I generally found the PCs rolled up 'ok' or 'crap' with not much variation in the middle. Some kind of power level to apply to the stats and powers might be a thing so Street Level has its own power table, low super (Daredevil, Spider-Man, Luke Cage etc) gets its own, Avengers (including Street level elevated to this level. Spider-man doesn't get the tar beaten out of him anywhere near as much when he's in the Avengers than his own book, where he's pretty much thrashed every issue).

...

5) Tunnels and Trolls. It needs a shorter version (corgi book?) or boxed set. Sort out the missile rules so someone can understand without re-reading. Get Liz Danforth on board. Art, ideas, editing. Unify the look. This colour for the base stuff/rules, this for low level adventures, this for medium and so on. Expand the game world with campaign books including a war between a returning Khazan and everyone. Sell a large cube of dice. You'll need 'em. Do something with it. Webbed Sphere, the current owners, have done nothing. Steve Crompton (one of the DT&T crew) tries to push Monsters! Monsters! but it doesn't have the appeal of T&T for various reasons. There is a gap in the market for a rules lite dungeon crawler box set to start new players off. Once upon a time that was Basic D&D. T&T has always been 'that game with the silly spell names' and a bit... amateurish. Spend money on art and layout and kickstart it. With all the upheaval about OGL and licenses people are making a move from D&D, there is a narrow window to capitalise and WOTC might try something underhanded again.

1) WRT Golden Heroes chargen, it helps to know that Games Workshop inssted upon certain changes that worked to the game's detriment (hell, the whole reason the game is split into two nearly identical books is because GW wanted a bigger page count). While the random Powers were by design, every random table after that was the idea of GW, and not the game's designers. This is according to conversations with co-author Simon Burley online. So, those Advantageous Backgrounds? Don't roll, just pick! Type of Energy Attack? Pick! Enhanced Senses? Don't roll, pick! Those "gimmicks" on Energy Attack? Pick one (Oh, and whereas in the book it says you get a gimmick starting at Grade 2, Burley says he intended a gimmick at each Grade). So, this is how we do it at my table.

I prefer random powers in supers RPGs, because it seems to speed up the process (cuts down on analysis paralysis) and reduce the abundance of "flying invulnerable blaster" types and Wolverine clones. But GH is supposed to be "semi-random". It was intended by Burley that players would roll a few powers, then spend the rest of their Power Rolls on Upgrades and Advantageous Backgrounds. I usually have players roll all their Power Rolls, then swap powers they don't want for upgrades or related powers (like Energy Reflect/Immunity of the same type they have an Energy Attack of). This still tends to give them a shorter list of powers, but stronger, that they actually want. And often with a better theme, so you don't end up with Combo Man.

I've seen too many players use all of their Power Rolls hoping for the "kewl" powers, only to end up with a few low-Grade powers they like, and a handful that they ignore.

I also like to let players who have "Brilliant Scientist" and similar Advantageous Backgrounds know that it isn't a license to pull suitcase nukes or aircraft carriers out of their ass. You can invent/procure crazy stuff, sure. But it's gonna cost you DUPs (XP in Golden Heroes jargon).



2) Man, I think T&T is just cursed. I love the game, though. I'm glad Deluxe T&T exists, but yeah it is too big and imposing a tome for T&T's simplicity and flexibility. I don't think Monsters! Monsters! is a good substitute, but I do wonder if KSA and Crompton thought it would be, and they could keep selling T&T in a "sideways" fashion. I don't really know what the answer is to make T&T more viable or successful, but I don't really think Webbed Sphere do, either. Well, I have more copies of various editions than I can ever wear out. So, I guess I'm good. Sigh...

 

[Alai]

Well, the wonkery that started before RQ came out (or at least before White Bear & Red Moon came out) was just Greg Stafford playing around (well, maybe a few other folks participated?) The wonkery I get tired of is what goes on in the fan community. And since the only Greg Stafford wonkery I had when I started was what little is in the RQ1 book plus Cults of Prax (a bit later) I really have my own Glorantha. And heck, I probably ignore a lot of what's in those two sources... Not that I never pick up bits really from anywhere, but I don't obsess over the cultural anthropology.

That's great, more power to you (and your players), and all that. I'm just quibbling with any construction on events that'd imply that Glorantha is fundamentally contained in two documents of sober roleplaying genius, preceded by 12 years of errant silliness, and followed by another 40 of errant silliness. Which who knows maybe is even an arguable artistic position, but there's clearly more than one subjective variable at work there, on either side of the publishing process.

 

[Alai]

Pfft, Fate? Forged in the Dark? Those are HOT games. You try pitching Fudge to players.

Pitch it as "Fate Lite". Or just as Fate, then (as it were) fudge the non-FUDGE parts.

 

[Baulderstone]

I wish that Ghostbusters had been a juggernaut. Feel like the mainstream of the hobby would be a lot more interesting and fun. Plus it is a damn fine game.

View attachment 55294

They never really figured out how to make supplements for it. As presented in the rules, it was best played as a free-wheeling sandbox in your hometown. The published adventures were too tight to let the players be creative, and they were so loaded with jokes that they got in the way of letting the GM and players be funny on their own.

I did find the large selection of scenario ideas in the GM's book to very useful though. It's the kind of game where it was more useful to get a paragraph or two, then flesh it out your local setting than having a published adventure.

The positive in this is that you are fine just getting the boxed set and nothing else. And Ghosbusters did have it's influence on games like Over the Edge and Unknown Armies.

 

[Cowboy Duck]

Two answers here.

First, to the question as intended: Gumshoe. I get it, ideas like "never rolling to find a clue" and "expending stats to get bonuses" are stretches for some folks, but games like Night's Black Agents, Timewatch, and Swords of the Serpentine are really well done, enjoyable games.

I tell ya, TimeWatch and Swords of the Serpentine are so damn exciting in how they utilize GUMSHOE. They really deserve more attention.

 

[TristramEvans]

They never really figured out how to make supplements for it. As presented in the rules, it was best played as a free-wheeling sandbox in your hometown. The published adventures were too tight to let the players be creative, and they were so loaded with jokes that they got in the way of letting the GM and players be funny on their own.

I did find the large selection of scenario ideas in the GM's book to very useful though. It's the kind of game where it was more useful to get a paragraph or two, then flesh it out your local setting than having a published adventure.

The positive in this is that you are fine just getting the boxed set and nothing else. And Ghosbusters did have it's influence on games like Over the Edge and Unknown Armies.

Not to mention it inspired WEG's Star Wars RPG, which pretty much single-handedly kept the franchise alive

 

[Gringnr]

Not to mention it inspired WEG's Star Wars RPG, which pretty much single-handedly kept the franchise alive

Ghostbusters was so influential, as a game. Does not get the credit it deserves. I mean, I know the D6 Legend system is a somewhat different and divisive beast, but it inspired Prowlers & Paragons. Ghostbusters set in motion a chain of events that still reverberates today.

 

[ReluctantGM]

Even though Mythras and OpenQuest can cover most of the ground occupied by it, I really wish Magic World's (Stormbinger/Elric!) mechanics had gotten properly supported by Chaosium. I understand, the license rights to Moorcock's IP being problematic and I don't begrudge their decision to kill Magic World, but even without the IP, the rules do such a nice job of providing a simplified, but not too simple entry point for BRP-based fantasy gaming. Setting aside its shoddy layout, bad, bland and/or recycled artwork and some pretty egregious editing and formatting errors that really mar the presentation, I still love it like few games I've ever played in 35+ years at this hobby.

Magic World would absolutely have been my game of choice. I'd been running Stormbringer for many years and had already removed most of the Moorcock stuff and when Magic World came out I was stoked. Finally, a book I could give to my players as is!

I wasn't so stoked to see it left to rot on the vine.

 

[Savage Schemer]

Pfft, Fate? Forged in the Dark? Those are HOT games. You try pitching Fudge to players.

Actually, that's not quite true. I really can't complain. I've been extremely fortunate finding players (in real life and online) willing to take a chance and play in my Fudge-based games, a system which I think we can agree is pretty firmly in the tragically unfashionable category. Maybe, despite the horror stories, roleplayers are more open minded than we give them credit for?

I've never had any trouble whatsoever running any game, including Fudge. But I don't "pitch" the games. There's no permission or "buy-in" being sought, ever. I make an announcement, "I'm going to be running XYZ using Fudge as my system. If you're interested, let me know by ABC date so I can plan accordingly." And if nobody shows interest, guess what? I The introvert in me gets to win and chill with movies or computer games. But that's never happened in real life. Someone always shows interest. I may have people cancel, or I may need to work around scheduling difficulties, but people are always down for some drinking & dice rolling when real life cooperates. And they know better than to start mouthing off about what game they'd rather play instead, because that's when I pass em the GM's hat and politely suggest they run it for us.

 

[TristramEvans]

Just was reminded of this game from another thread: The Dying Earth RPG.



Legend has it the free quickstart for the game was so good, no one went out and actually bought the game, so it failed.

No idea if that's true or just an RPG forum urban myth, but either way it unfortunately was another silent casualty during the D20 era that seems to have been forgotten, which is a shame. It was a clever system.

 

[Alai]

Magic World would absolutely have been my game of choice. I'd been running Stormbringer for many years and had already removed most of the Moorcock stuff and when Magic World came out I was stoked. Finally, a book I could give to my players as is!

I wasn't so stoked to see it left to rot on the vine.

Does the BRP BYB pick up any of that slack? (Never looked at MW so I'm idly speculating here.)

 

[ReluctantGM]

Does the BRP BYB pick up any of that slack? (Never looked at MW so I'm idly speculating here.)

The BRP BYB is fantastic but it's too much of a toolbox for me to hand to my players. I wanted something I could give them that would have everything they needed without having to prepare an exceptions list. There's a cool checklist thing in the back of the book where you could specify which rules were being used but my players would have bounced pretty hard off that sort of thing.

Anyway, I've now got Mythras and my players -love- it. I have 2 copies each of the main rule book and the Classic Fantasy book and that works really well for my groups.

Magic World will remain a memory of that one that could have been.

 

[Alai]

The BRP BYB is fantastic but it's too much of a toolbox for me to hand to my players. I wanted something I could give them that would have everything they needed without having to prepare an exceptions list. There's a cool checklist thing in the back of the book where you could specify which rules were being used but my players would have bounced pretty hard off that sort of thing.

That's fair. Players are a cowardly and superstitious lot, anything that helps streamline that is all to the good.

Something for the people flogging "game toolkits" to work out how to facilitate. Should be feasible in theory, especially digitally.

 

[ReluctantGM]

That's fair. Players are a cowardly and superstitious lot, anything that helps streamline that is all to the good.

Something for the people flogging "game toolkits" to work out how to facilitate. Should be feasible in theory, especially digitally.

If I had had the pdf of the Big Yellow Book way back in the day I would have just printed out a "good parts" version that only had the stuff I wanted to use. That might have done the trick.

 

[Baulderstone]

Just was reminded of this game from another thread: The Dying Earth RPG.

View attachment 55897

Legend has it the free quickstart for the game was so good, no one went out and actually bought the game, so it failed.

No idea if that's true or just an RPG forum urban myth, but either way it unfortunately was another silent casualty during the D20 era that seems to have been forgotten, which is a shame. It was a clever system.

I've heard the same story, but I tend to doubt it as the supplements for that game were great. I can't see people liking the game and failing to pick anything up.

Laws did do a setting free version of the rules, called Skullduggery, which is great. It's a game for running one-shots where the players are all at odds with each other. It has a number of ready-run adventures. There is one were you are all pirates on a ship and the captain has just died, another where you are all cabinet members in the White House trying to push your own agenda, and so on.

 

[Vile Traveller]

Whereas I never got my hands on Cults of Prax, but had RQ2 and Cults of Terror, so for me that's what best describes the tone of Glorantha. That and the memories of a campaign set in Beast Valley (with that name it seemed appropriate) in which the PCs were all various kinds of lycanthrope trying to 1) avopid persecution by humans (who thought that the PCs were chaotic and nasty), and 2) deal with Broos and other things that were clearly chaotic and nasty.

That's where we were at when we still played in Glorantha, right at the start of our RQ days. Beast Valley was even the centre of action - we didn't have any lycanthrope PCs, but chaos was rife in our ranks. Chaos was just way too cool to restrict it to the referee's side of the screen.

Reading someone else's copies of Cults of Prax and the RuneQuest Companion actually put us off the setting as it was already changing rapidly even then - not just expanding, but constant gregging of already published material. The first thing I distinctly remember was the Haunted Lands from the RQ2 map changing to the Shadow Plateau in the Companion. I mean, why? Admittedly it irked me in particular because my first campaign was centered on the Leaden Hills.

I only peripherally followed the fan-fuelled anthropology wonkery subsequent to the advent of the internet, but every post I saw made me happy I hadn't invested more time in it. I was briefly on the Glorantha mailing list (I think I'm still on the RQ Rules mailing list, but it's pretty much dead), I dipped into and immediately out of the Glorantha Yahoo! group, and the Glorantha invasion of BRP Central led me to exit to this place. I won't repeat the common perception Glorantha grognards are their setting's own worst enemies*, because by putting off everyone else they do ensure the setting keeps developing with the same kind of wonkery they love.

I would have loved an alternate timeline where Worlds of Wonder had become Chaosium's core system, with boxed sets heading off in all directions when GURPS was just a twinkle in Steve Jackson's eye.

* Apart from Howard-the-ducks. Those are the worst enemy of the game by far.

 

[Sharrow]

* Apart from Howard-the-ducks. Those are the worst enemy of the game by far.

I liked the ducks, and the other silliness of early RQ. What I do not like about the ducks are the people who insist on playing them like they're all Howard The Duck. It's like what Kenders were - an excuse for shitty player behaviour.

 

[ffilz]

That's where we were at when we still played in Glorantha, right at the start of our RQ days. Beast Valley was even the centre of action - we didn't have any lycanthrope PCs, but chaos was rife in our ranks. Chaos was just way too cool to restrict it to the referee's side of the screen.

Reading someone else's copies of Cults of Prax and the RuneQuest Companion actually put us off the setting as it was already changing rapidly even then - not just expanding, but constant gregging of already published material. The first thing I distinctly remember was the Haunted Lands from the RQ2 map changing to the Shadow Plateau in the Companion. I mean, why? Admittedly it irked me in particular because my first campaign was centered on the Leaden Hills.

I only peripherally followed the fan-fuelled anthropology wonkery subsequent to the advent of the internet, but every post I saw made me happy I hadn't invested more time in it. I was briefly on the Glorantha mailing list (I think I'm still on the RQ Rules mailing list, but it's pretty much dead), I dipped into and immediately out of the Glorantha Yahoo! group, and the Glorantha invasion of BRP Central led me to exit to this place. I won't repeat the common perception Glorantha grognards are their setting's own worst enemies*, because by putting off everyone else they do ensure the setting keeps developing with the same kind of wonkery they love.

I would have loved an alternate timeline where Worlds of Wonder had become Chaosium's core system, with boxed sets heading off in all directions when GURPS was just a twinkle in Steve Jackson's eye.

* Apart from Howard-the-ducks. Those are the worst enemy of the game by far.

I've certainly noticed map changes, but they really don't bother me. In the early days, I know I used the map from White Bear & Red Moon, and starting in the 90s, I switched to the Dagori Inkarth map from the RQ3 version of Trollpak. I've also made use of various River of Cradles maps. While I have all of the RQ3 Glorantha material, I mostly ignore it (other than the Trollpak map) other than using some of the scenarios. I don't agree with the cult changes, so the RQ3 cults are mostly useless to me, so any Gregging beyond the mechanical bits that changed, I'm really not even aware of the anthropology/culture changes, and whatever I might be aware of just doesn't bother me.

I wonder if I would have had a different opinion had I picked up Worlds of Wonder and really delved into it, or actually got on board Call of Cthulhu? But one factor perhaps is that actually while I played RQ on an off from 1978 through the 80s, I hadn't run an extended campaign. In fact, I missed the Pavis and Big Rubble boxed sets and the Companion. By the time I started a campaign in the 90s, RQ3 was nearing the end of it's run so I didn't observe lots of changes as I ran the campaign, and I stuck with the RQ1 rules. So through all that I was basically insulated from all the changes and while I subscribed to the mailing lists, I really didn't read them much so I was also insulated from the anthropology wonkery. Because of all that, I can watch the wonkery with amusement, enjoy some of the cool maps, and continue running RQ and Glorantha as I always have.

But I also get how all of what's gone on is a turn off to many people, and has created a perception of an unapproachable setting.