Dungeon Craft (on YouTube Algorithms and other topics)

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This is a bit depressing. Not because of D&D and RPGs. Provided the youtube algorithm works as described in the video, this shall only create a society full of stupid people who only care about shallow information and drama. For some reason it reminds me of the protagonist's wife from the Fahrenheit 451 novel (Mildred "Millie" Montag from this wiki page).
 
I saw this before, watched the first 30 seconds or so, and clicked away, as I've got tired with the level of clickbaiting from his channel. Thanks for linking here, turns out to be a pretty good video.
 
I don’t blame him for playing the game. He does not do the “D&D is doomed” videos very often so I cut him some slack. He doesn’t really get into hyperbole and they are entertaining enough. Most of his videos are indeed about his campaigns and game reviews.

It’s the people who have put out videos every week for the last six years claiming “Lucasfilm is going to fire Kathleen Kennedy any minute now” that grind my gears because there’s not any truth to them. It’s hatemongering. I desperately want to post the William Shatner gif from SNL in their comment sections.
 
Youtube's algorithms is indeed shit, because they'll only suggest stuff similar to what you've already watched. You'll have to actively search for other stuff to see it. It's not just Youtube that does this all the social media sites does it, many search engines also does it and all those streaming services people subscribe to does it too.

Now it's time for some Shatner memes:

william-shatner-captain-kirk.png


tumblr_pb4lvhYDB11rpsuhuo1_400.gif


40uh.gif
 
Didn't watch the vid but many people who depend on a major chunk of their income from youtube complain about the algorithms. Even more annoying, youtube will occasionally change the algorithm without telling anyone and creators have to scramble to figure out why their views suddenly dropped off. Like many things, I see this as a side effect of near monopolies. If you want to do video content, it's mainly youtube or tiktok, so it's pick your poison. Yea, it sucks but what can you do? Similarly, you can self publish books but you're then beholden to Amazon's self serving rules.

If you subscribe, you are more likely to see a person's future videos but I'm not sure of the likelihood. About the only gaming youtuber I'm subscribed to are Zee Bashew's animations on aspects of gaming and his campaigns.
 
Are you talking about the videos on your Home Screen? If you go to the subscriptions tab you should see any new videos from channels you are subscribed to. I don’t even look at the Home Screen, I either see what’s new in subscriptions or I search for something specific.
Stan said:
Didn't watch the vid but many people who depend on a major chunk of their income from youtube complain about the algorithms. Even more annoying, youtube will occasionally change the algorithm without telling anyone and creators have to scramble to figure out why their views suddenly dropped off.

If you subscribe, you are more likely to see a person's future videos but I'm not sure of the likelihood. About the only gaming youtuber I'm subscribed to are Zee Bashew's animations on aspects of gaming and his campaigns.
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sharps54 said:
Are you talking about the videos on your Home Screen? If you go to the subscriptions tab you should see any new videos from channels you are subscribed to. I don’t even look at the Home Screen, I either see what’s new in subscriptions or I search for something specific.
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Yea, I meant the home screen. I tend to go to it but I don't really know why as it's just a combo of my subscriptions and random crap.
 
When I go on Youtube my starting page is my own account. The sidebar with subscriptions has marks on the channels with new vids. I then just go to each channel too see if any of it interests me to watch. Basically I bypass the whole algorithm thing.
 
Hairless Bear said:
This is a bit depressing. Not because of D&D and RPGs. Provided the youtube algorithm works as described in the video, this shall only create a society full of stupid people who only care about shallow information and drama. For some reason it reminds me of the protagonist's wife from the Fahrenheit 451 novel (Mildred "Millie" Montag from this wiki page).
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Right? Kinda how all media appears to work these days, sadly.
 
Hairless Bear said:
This is a bit depressing. Not because of D&D and RPGs. Provided the youtube algorithm works as described in the video, this shall only create a society full of stupid people who only care about shallow information and drama. For some reason it reminds me of the protagonist's wife from the Fahrenheit 451 novel (Mildred "Millie" Montag from this wiki page).
Click to expand...

Step in one of the greatest comedies in recent history (well, at least the first half) : Idiocracy

 
Endless Flight said:
I don’t blame him for playing the game. He does not do the “D&D is doomed” videos very often so I cut him some slack. He doesn’t really get into hyperbole and they are entertaining enough. Most of his videos are indeed about his campaigns and game reviews.
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In a recent video he explained how with minimal effort he can put together a video covering the latest dnd scandal and it gets huge views, while other videos about running the game or crafting can take him a very long time to make, but they barely get any views. He confirms his own experience with other channels who see similar viewing trends.

So what to do? Slave away for little return or give people what they want to watch.

If the high effort videos matched click bait videos I can see an argument for putting in the extra effort, but they are simply falling way short.
 
goats said:
In a recent video he explained how with minimal effort he can put together a video covering the latest dnd scandal and it gets huge views, while other videos about running the game or crafting can take him a very long time to make, but they barely get any views. He confirms his own experience with other channels who see similar viewing trends.

So what to do? Slave away for little return or give people what they want to watch.

If the high effort videos matched click bait videos I can see an argument for putting in the extra effort, but they are simply falling way short.
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He made a video like that a year ago when he said he wouldn’t cover D&D any more and dedicate the channel to crafting but quickly changed his tune.
 
Dr Jack said:
Is it supposed to be some kind of satire I'm too dim or ignorant to recognise?
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No, not at all. I don't know how much of it is sincere, on her part, but she is doing a bit and she knows she's doing a bit. Don't know if she's just trying to monetize Al Gore's rhythm, or she's just trying to push her bizarre political agenda-- or both-- but whatever she's doing, she's doing it on purpose and I find it hysterical.
 
goats said:
In a recent video he explained how with minimal effort he can put together a video covering the latest dnd scandal and it gets huge views, while other videos about running the game or crafting can take him a very long time to make, but they barely get any views. He confirms his own experience with other channels who see similar viewing trends.

So what to do? Slave away for little return or give people what they want to watch.

If the high effort videos matched click bait videos I can see an argument for putting in the extra effort, but they are simply falling way short.
Click to expand...

I have minimal sympathy for anyone claiming the marketplace is forcing them into becoming a hack.

Catering to the lowest common denominator and market has always been the best way to make a living in writing, music, film, etc. but plenty of people don't do it and either make peace with the fact that they won't get rich or still do manage to do well.
 
The Mad Hatter said:
Youtube's algorithms is indeed shit, because they'll only suggest stuff similar to what you've already watched. You'll have to actively search for other stuff to see it. It's not just Youtube that does this all the social media sites does it, many search engines also does it and all those streaming services people subscribe to does it too.

Now it's time for some Shatner memes:

william-shatner-captain-kirk.png


tumblr_pb4lvhYDB11rpsuhuo1_400.gif


40uh.gif
Click to expand...

I regularly clear my history on YT and notice its default after I've done so is to suggest conspiracy mongering bro-ish bullshit.
 
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sharps54 said:
That is why I prefer YouTubers and podcasters and bloggers that do it purely out of love with zero financial interest
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I think a lot of these people thinking they're going to make YT or Twitch their living are probably deeply mistaken. Not sure what the chances of succeeding are but I can't imagine they're very good.

The very few that manage it have discussed how their working hours are insane, their 'fans' get enraged if they take two weeks off and the work itself is solitary and bad for their mental health.
 
The Mad Hatter said:
Youtube's algorithms is indeed shit, because they'll only suggest stuff similar to what you've already watched. You'll have to actively search for other stuff to see it. It's not just Youtube that does this all the social media sites does it, many search engines also does it and all those streaming services people subscribe to does it too.
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My impression:

Prof DM highlights the fact that as YT has kept changing the algorithm to try and stop people people from gaming it; they have made it so that now only stuff that has already established a large audience gets put forward.

Which now has made it virtually mission impossible for new channels/content to reach a wider audience unless they play the very specific algorithm game that YT is now set to promote.

i.e. All clickbait, all the time: You know, to stop people from 'gaming' the algorithm...
 
One option, I wish Youtube would have, is to just have completely random stuff suggested to you. Without algorithms getting in the way. Of course, something like that will never happen for the simple reason that there's no money in it.
 
The Mad Hatter said:
One option, I wish Youtube would have, is to just have completely random stuff suggested to you. Without algorithms getting in the way. Of course, something like that will never happen for the simple reason that there's no money in it.
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I'm betting you would get to watch a lot of school board and local council meetings.
 
Dr Jack said:
Is it supposed to be some kind of satire I'm too dim or ignorant to recognise?
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I think there may at least be an element of parody in Discourse's titles, just because of how ridiculous and clickbaity they are. Especially as her actual content isn't that clickbait focused for YouTube. She can go off on a tangent a bit but I find a lot of her actual analysis solid hidden behind "THE BIGGEST SCANDAL YET FOR HASBRO" titles.
 
I pretty much only see the people I subscribe to and only a few of them have anything near 1K subscribers. But they are hobbyists sharing what they love. I haven't noticed that I miss any of their content, unless I just don't go on YT for a while, but the algorithm doesn't seem to actively hide them from me.

Right now I mostly enjoy YT, but if they start forcing me to watch ads, my viewership will drop off rapidly.
 
Voros said:
I have minimal sympathy for anyone claiming the marketplace is forcing them into becoming a hack.

Catering to the lowest common denominator and market has always been the best way to make a living in writing, music, film, etc. but plenty of people don't do it and either make peace with the fact that they won't get rich or still do manage to do well.
Click to expand...
The problem as Professor DM pointed out, that while he doesn't depend on it to help him earn a living it did help pay for things like braces for his kid. In this country (the USA) we're kinda fucked when it comes to many quality of life things that other first world countries take for granted, like medical and education.

I always find myself annoyed at how often anytime someone falls ill or dies, that GoFundme's are required to make it or get by. I then look at the fact that I'm sixty and will be paying off my four children and wife's educations until probably the day I die. That's our side of the education in regards to the kids. All toll the debt paid which can't be done away with bankruptcy is going to be $500,000.00 (over a half a million) U.S. dollars.

My bigger worry is that while paying that stuff which i'll be doing until I'm around 85 (if I live that long), that I or my wife fall ill and end up generating additional debt. We keep all other bills paid off these days but I always worry that this one day could totally fuck us over. Funny thing, financially we do well, better than my parents, my grant parents etc did before me. It's just it's a thin line or one bad illness and we're fucked.

So yeah Professor DM's video was interesting, not long and managed to breakdown the how fucked up YouTube's algorithms in regards to earning a little extra money for that rainy day when you really need it. Or even retirement, I recall my parents and grandparents and how they're retirement worked and they had a decent set up retirement wise. Hell I recall how education worked for even myself (price wise) in California until the 1990s. None of that exists now as it was. So I'm more understanding on his points and was appreciative of his explaining the situation.
 
Acmegamer said:
The problem as Professor DM pointed out, that while he doesn't depend on it to help him earn a living it did help pay for things like braces for his kid. In this country (the USA) we're kinda fucked when it comes to many quality of life things that other first world countries take for granted, like medical and education.

I always find myself annoyed at how often anytime someone falls ill or dies, that GoFundme's are required to make it or get by. I then look at the fact that I'm sixty and will be paying off my four children and wife's educations until probably the day I die. That's our side of the education in regards to the kids. All toll the debt paid which can't be done away with bankruptcy is going to be $500,000.00 (over a half a million) U.S. dollars.

My bigger worry is that while paying that stuff which i'll be doing until I'm around 85 (if I live that long), that I or my wife fall ill and end up generating additional debt. We keep all other bills paid off these days but I always worry that this one day could totally fuck us over. Funny thing, financially we do well, better than my parents, my grant parents etc did before me. It's just it's a thin line or one bad illness and we're fucked.

So yeah Professor DM's video was interesting, not long and managed to breakdown the how fucked up YouTube's algorithms in regards to earning a little extra money for that rainy day when you really need it. Or even retirement, I recall my parents and grandparents and how they're retirement worked and they had a decent set up retirement wise. Hell I recall how education worked for even myself (price wise) in California until the 1990s. None of that exists now as it was. So I'm more understanding on his points and was appreciative of his explaining the situation.
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If he wants a second income he should find something more solid than a social media platform. YouTube could go away tomorrow.
 
sharps54 said:
If he wants a second income he should find something more solid than a social media platform. YouTube could go away tomorrow.
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That's the thing, he wasn't really coming off like he needs it. He was explaining how nice it was to actually have it, he felt bad if I recall from the video those who did depend on the income. I agree, YouTube sucks hind teat and wouldn't mind it going away, of course I'd rather see Tik Tok go away. Anything that makes YouTube look good in comparison really is dreck.
 
Acmegamer said:
That's the thing, he wasn't really coming off like he needs it. He was explaining how nice it was to actually have it, he felt bad if I recall from the video those who did depend on the income. I agree, YouTube sucks hind teat and wouldn't mind it going away, of course I'd rather see Tik Tok go away. Anything that makes YouTube look good in comparison really is dreck.
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I’ll watch when I get home tonight
 
Also he re-posted an update of the video (about five hours ago I see) about orcs where he now used a bunch of orc art and linked under it all those artists websites of the art he used. The Orc video amused the first time and amused me watching the updated version.
 
sharps54 said:
If he wants a second income he should find something more solid than a social media platform. YouTube could go away tomorrow.
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I’m sure he probably would rather make D&D videos than work at Wal-Mart, not that’s there’s anything wrong with that other than Wal-Mart being Wal-Mart.
 
Endless Flight said:
I’m sure he probably would rather make D&D videos than work at Wal-Mart, not that’s there’s anything wrong with that other than Wal-Mart being Wal-Mart.
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No doubt and I wish him success in his endeavor with YouTube and Patreon (another crap platform)
 
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