What’s a critically acclaimed RPG you don’t like?

[Nobby-W]

Marmite - the original and best. You can keep your weak tasting vegemite.

About time - a religious war on something that really matters. None of this trivial wittering about living worlds or storygames here, please.

 

[Nobby-W]

What does Vegemite actually taste like?

The main reason these yeast extract products get a bad rap is they're very salty due to the manufacturing process. Vegemite tastes a bit salter than Marmite, which tastes more bitter. There are a few other products of this type around, such as Cenovis, which comes in a tube and tastes a bit more sour and fruity.

The taste is hard to describe but basically salt and umami turned up to 11. You spread it very thinly on toast.

For those who think Marmite is a bit extreme, I invite you to try Patum Peperium. For this, imagine Marmite, then add anchovies turned up to 11 as well.

Gentleman's Relish - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Endless Flight]

Thank you for reminding me of DC Heroes. I almost forgot to mention it.

I think so little of DC Heroes that it hardly bears mentioning.

DC Heroes gave me hiccups.

 

[Endless Flight]

To become an expert on vegemite, you just have to listen to “Down Under” by Men at Work.

 

[Certified]

Dungeons & Dragons (Most editions): In general, the rules feel awkward or arbitrary, too restrictive, or both. Overall, I'm not a fan of class based systems. That said, I haven't played enough of 5e to make a call yet, and while more restrictive than 3.X for classes, it someone seems to work better.

Pathfinder: While this might be covered under the previous entry, I want to call this out as being so dense in rules it nearly broke my gaming group and we all collectively walked away from it. This was years before 2e was released, and the new version seems to have doubled down on all of the things that didn't work for us before.

Fate: There are a lot of concepts in Fate that I think are great. However, there is something about the rules that pulls me out of the game. For whatever reason, I can't put my finger on exactly what though because I really enjoy other narrative focused games like PBtA or Dread.

Hero System/Champions: Alright, this one is a bit weird. While I generally avoid rules heavy games, I feel like the internal logic and math of Hero System is surprisingly elegant. There is just too much of it for a face to face game. That said, I played and ran a lot of Hero System on Hero Central when it was still around, because the format worked better for me and the math required.

GURPS: Maybe it's gotten better since third edition, but no thank you. However, while I will not be running a GURPS game any time soon, I've found their supplements amazingly well researched and just good reading, for gaming or a history or science lesson in general.

 

[Nobby-W]

To become an expert on vegemite, you just have to listen to “Down Under” by Men at Work.

I'm reminded of a story from my university days.

One chap I went to uni with was another adult student who had been the guitarist for a fairly successful rock band (i.e. they had stuff that had been on the charts) that was a contemporary of Men at Work. He had a story about being in a club with a record company exec who asked him what he thought of the act. My acquaintance didn't think much of the act, and the exec told him that he had just signed them. The act was Men at Work.

The chap also once made an offhand comment about having been a rock star and now wanting to return to real life; he was doing maths and computer science. I didn't think much of it at the time until some years later I had occasion to see him in a video from the band and then worked out who he was.

I feel that New Zealand's national anthem is the second worst in the world, only beaten out by Advance, Australia Fair. If Australia were to adopt Down Under as its national anthem the world would be a far better place.
Don't forget to subscribe and smash that like button if you agree. I wonder if one could start a petition,

 

[Baulderstone]

What does Vegemite actually taste like?

Like a less sweet version of Promite.

 

[robertsconley]

What does Vegemite actually taste like?

Savory, very very very savory. Think of it like it like the bacon in a bacon and toast sandwich. So bacon has three going for it, the taste of pork, the fat, and the fact it is savory. Well Vegemite doesn't have the pork, or the fat, but has the savory taste. A very intense savory taste so a little goes a long way. The default use is as a spread on buttered toast.

I like Marmite better as is has a meatier taste.

 

[robertsconley]

Marmite - the original and best. You can keep your weak tasting vegemite.

I concur, and easier to spread on toast.

 

[robertsconley]

For those who think Marmite is a bit extreme, I invite you to try Patum Peperium. For this, imagine Marmite, then add anchovies turned up to 11 as well.

Gentleman's Relish - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks, I will have to give this a try. I did try Garum which is made with anchovies, boy that is salty.

 

[Nobby-W]

Thanks, I will have to give this a try. I did try Garum which is made with anchovies, boy that is salty.

Use this stuff even more sparingly than Marmite, but I think it's delicious.

 

[Ladybird]

I'm no fan of Cortex or AGE, and both for the same reason really; they're recognisably descendants of other systems (Fate and core D&D 3.x respectively), that add extra things on to do things differently, but without considering whether the system actually needs those things in the first place; so the extra things just add clunk that never really pays off at the table. There's a design maxim that perfection isn't when there is nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away, and it's a trap that both games fall into; searching for and rolling a bunch of polydice to play tricks with, or spending points from a critical rewards table, are things that the systems just don't need in order to shine.

 

[VisionStorm]

These have already been mentioned, including my reasons why: 2d20, Fate, Savage Worlds, Mouse Guard, PbtA, FFG Star Wars/Genesys, Numenera/Cypher, Pathfinder

Numenera/Cypher is a game I desperately want to like, and would even consider joining a game if I ran into someone playing it, but the system is so abstract and oddly designed I know I'll run into problems. Attribute values are a complicated mess of Pools (HP/Power Points) and "Edges" (effectively ability modifiers), where you're expected to burn your stat Pool to do stuff, but your Pool also brilliantly doubles as HP. So using powers or trying to improve your ability rolls brings you closer to your grave, which I'm sure should be fun in play.

 

[robertsconley]

The major flaw in AGE is the hit point bloat. The skill advancement system I think is too coarse as well but otherwise it is a great system and it now has official options to deal with the hit point situation.

 

[robertsconley]

Use this stuff even more sparingly than Marmite, but I think it's delicious.

Thanks for the tip. I got practice in figure out the right amount with the intense stuff from when I first got Garum.

 

[Ladybird]

The major flaw in AGE is the hit point bloat. The skill advancement system I think is too coarse as well but otherwise it is a great system and it now has official options to deal with the hit point situation.

There's a certain level of HP bloat I'm okay with, because I like PC's to have that buffer to realise "hang on we've fucked up here" and retreat, rather than instantly getting splatted. But I do agree, it does go too far.

I really like Pathfinder 2e's solution, which is just to let higher-level characters roll more damage dice on a hit (Albeit dependent on magic items, but the game is inherently designed around assuming you'll have them). Rolling more damage dice is something players like doing.

 

[Bunch]

View attachment 35140

The only problems with DC Heroes is the DC Universe and the game system.

 

[Ladybird]

The only problems with DC Heroes is the DC Universe and the game system.

I'm quite fond of DC Heroes. It looks like it's lacking in a lot of stuff, but in play I think it flows really well.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Tommy Brownell stole my thunder with D6 Star Wars.

Numenera/Cypher is a game with an great setting, but I find the rules bland as hell. If I ever run it, I will use Fate Core instead.

For an actually shocking comment, not regarding rpgs though. I love geese.

 

[Gabriel]

I've never cared for Call of Cthulhu. It has never seemed interesting to me.

Come to think of it, Paranoia is another one that I don't like. I think it takes a potentially cool concept, and it just tosses it into a pit of brain dead "gamer humor."

Edit:

Oh.. almost forgot. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e. I had heard such great shit about this and had been happy when I found a copy for $2.50 at the local used book store. I read through it and, it was just uninteresting to me.

I suppose it's because I'm more of a system person. When I got the book, I was completely submerged in my thing of only seeing the system part of any product. The system part of 2e wasn't interesting. I don't even recall there being much world stuff in the book, certainly nothing that piqued my interest.

I liked 3e a lot more. Then again, it was much more about system and all about "candy" in the form of graphics and bits.

 

[Ladybird]

I've never cared for Call of Cthulhu. It has never seemed interesting to me.

Come to think of it, Paranoia is another one that I don't like. I think it takes a potentially cool concept, and it just tosses it into a pit of brain dead "gamer humor."

Paranoia is fun if everybody is on exactly the same page about what they're expecting from it. It can cope with a lot of diverse game styles. But it falls apart quicker than most games if they aren't; a given Paranoia game can only do one style at a time, whereas other games can vary more during a session.

 

[Baragei]

There are many games, acclaimed or not, that I don't care for. I only actively dislike a few.
Savage Worlds because it lies. While it is a relatively fast system, it is not furious and it is not fun.
2d20 because it hoovers up licenses like there's no tomorrow and proceeds to cram them into a set of mechanics that doesn't do anything well, and with seemingly no - or very inebriated - editorial oversight.
Fate and PbtA are games whose style I just don't care for, but the thing that tips them into "worst" is the fanbase.
The new RuneQuest comes close to tipping as well for the same reason. CoC7 killed itself and my interest in it with that absolute disaster of a crowdfunding campaign, as well as being a solution no one asked for desperately searching for a problem no one had.

 

[under_score]

PBTA and all the PBTA-based games that fans of PBTA insist aren't PBTA but are always played and promoted by fans of PBTA.

FATE, I think. Not that I understand the game. But I picked up the Dresden Files RPG at my game store once and read through it a bit and thought it was garbage that would clearly never run at my table.

Savage Worlds. I only have one experience with it, at a con years back, but the combat was such a slog. D&D might be whiffy, but finding out you whiffed takes only a second, whereas SW took forever to whiff.

Mouse Guard. I enjoyed the comics and the artwork of the RPG is great, but the gameplay is a grind.

Forbidden Lands. It's such a good looking game, but then the setting just fails to land.

2d20. Is that acclaimed?

 

[hawkeyefan]

What does Vegemite actually taste like?

Sadness.

On topic, I'm actually open to trying most games if I know someone who's willing to run, but there are certain settings I just never took to, with Warhammer being the one that comes most readily to mind. Everything about it just says to me that it was all based on a tabletop war game where everything is monolithic and thematic, and any attempt to have things make sense in the setting is secondary.

I'm sure others would disagree, but that's been my impression of the setting and I've never been able to shake it.

 

[CRKrueger]

Shadowrun. Get your orcs and elves out of my cyberpunk thank you very much.

Oh come on, you know you love Orcs and Trolls.

Spoiler

Plus Shadowrun has better memes.

Spoiler

]

and there’s the counterpoint to any Shadowrun criticism...

Spoiler

 

[chuckdee]

Fiasco
Pathfinder
Savage Worlds
Mythras

 

[CRKrueger]

The main reason these yeast extract products get a bad rap is they're very salty due to the manufacturing process. Vegemite tastes a bit salter than Marmite, which tastes more bitter. There are a few other products of this type around, such as Cenovis, which comes in a tube and tastes a bit more sour and fruity.

The taste is hard to describe but basically salt and umami turned up to 11. You spread it very thinly on toast.

For those who think Marmite is a bit extreme, I invite you to try Patum Peperium. For this, imagine Marmite, then add anchovies turned up to 11 as well.

Gentleman's Relish - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why not just eat Garum or Natto and have done?

 

[VisionStorm]

2d20. Is that acclaimed?

You'd think so from the number of major IPs it gobbles up into it's stinking maw and spews out as some momentum-driven nonsense.

 

[Ladybird]

Oh come on, you know you love Orcs and Trolls.

Spoiler

View attachment 35151

She is cool as fuck.

 

[EmperorNorton]

I'm no fan of Cortex or AGE, and both for the same reason really; they're recognisably descendants of other systems (Fate and core D&D 3.x respectively), that add extra things on to do things differently, but without considering whether the system actually needs those things in the first place; so the extra things just add clunk that never really pays off at the table. There's a design maxim that perfection isn't when there is nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away, and it's a trap that both games fall into; searching for and rolling a bunch of polydice to play tricks with, or spending points from a critical rewards table, are things that the systems just don't need in order to shine.

See I'm exactly the opposite about Cortex. Mine would be FATE, because pretty much I feel like every single thing you do feels the same in FATE, and 90% of it feels like "do I have the Fate Point to spend on it to push it over the edge".

Cortex actually feels like it adds something to it to me that makes it actually interesting, and there are enough mechanical things going on, that while Plot Points are useful, they don't feel as all important as FATE Points did.

 

[VisionStorm]

Oh come on, you know you love Orcs and Trolls.

Spoiler

View attachment 35148
View attachment 35149View attachment 35150View attachment 35151View attachment 35152

Plus Shadowrun has better memes.

Spoiler

View attachment 35153]View attachment 35158

and there’s the counterpoint to any Shadowrun criticism...

Spoiler

View attachment 35159

I can understand why some people might prefer not to have fantasy elements in their sci-fi, but I love me some Street Shammies calling spirits in a dark alley. And all your hard sci-fi will never overcome the cool factor of an orc with a cyberarm.

 

[CRKrueger]

I'm no fan of Cortex or AGE, and both for the same reason really; they're recognisably descendants of other systems (Fate and core D&D 3.x respectively), that add extra things on to do things differently, but without considering whether the system actually needs those things in the first place; so the extra things just add clunk that never really pays off at the table. There's a design maxim that perfection isn't when there is nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away, and it's a trap that both games fall into; searching for and rolling a bunch of polydice to play tricks with, or spending points from a critical rewards table, are things that the systems just don't need in order to shine.

A 2d6 system plus Stunt Die is descended from 3.x? Are you talking about the Talents? I chalk that up to cRPG roots more than D&D.

 

[Tommy Brownell]

Also, if you don’t like games I do, you are CLEARLY role playing wrong and need to turn in your dice bags and Viking hats immediately.

 

[Ladybird]

A 2d6 system plus Stunt Die is descended from 3.x? Are you talking about the Talents? I chalk that up to cRPG roots more than D&D.

They switched from using d20 to using 3d6. I don't consider that a huge innovation in and of itself. Similarly, I don't consider the use of the "stunt die" and the associated stunt points table to be doing anything that a degrees of success mechanic (Similar to that of Pathfinder 2e, passing / failing a roll by 10 or more is a critical) doesn't do more elegantly.

 

[Gringnr]

Played Shadowrun once, didn't like the setting or system. 2e I think.

 

[Tommy Brownell]

Played Shadowrun once, didn't like the setting or system. 2e I think.

The setting is the only cyberpunk I like. But goddamn those systems. Ugh.

 

[Ladybird]

The setting is the only cyberpunk I like. But goddamn those systems. Ugh.

I like Shadowrun because while there are plenty of other cyberpunk systems, it's the only one where I can play a witch. I think it's lacking in other aspects, but it does that really well.

 

[ScytheSong]

It depends on what you mean by "critically acclaimed", but the "new" version of the World of Darkness left me completely cold. Apocalypse World feels like a step backwards from Dogs in the Vineyard in quality, and I'm hoping Lumpley's new Faerie Circus game will actually turn out to be worth my time. I haven't bothered buying any D&D since mid-3.5 (15 years or so?) based on play reports from friends. I have campaign ideas for D&D, but I'm not sure I want to actually run 5th ed. as it has been desribed to me.

Oh yeah, I'm also kinda out on what's called "exception-based mechanics." Anything where a power or skill or whatever has its own subsystem to resolve makes me worry about the amount of work I'm going to have to do to keep my players from exploiting it. (I have one player in particular who loves to fold, mutilate, and spindle rule sets so that he has an "I win" button. Fortunately, he can be convinced to limit that button to one particular area of the game)

 

[Allen Varney]

Come to think of it, Paranoia is another one that I don't like. I think it takes a potentially cool concept, and it just tosses it into a pit of brain dead "gamer humor."

Though my days as PARANOIA line developer are long past (2004-2006), I still like to check into statements of this kind. When was the last time you looked at the line?

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

Though my days as PARANOIA line developer are long past (2004-2006), I still like to check into statements of this kind. When was the last time you looked at the line?

It's not true of your run, but I think sadly we've returned to it a bit with the new line.