WH40K 8th Edition announced

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TristramEvans

TristramEvans

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....and in line with the new GW, its a complete paradigm shift.

On Saturday, the main announcement and a short FAQ was released:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/
Warhammer Community said:
Over the last few months, it’s been pretty clear that something has been coming – we’ve seen the Baal System threatened by the Tyranids, war erupting across the Damocles Gulf, a Daemon Primarch return in the Fenris System and most recently, the events of the Gathering Storm, in which worlds fell, gods were born and a Primarch rose from his 10,000 year slumber.

The new Warhammer 40,000 will see the continuation of these epic events – this is the universe you know and love, but the story of the galaxy is advancing. Be prepared for some major and exciting developments in the story of the Dark Millennium.

We’ve taken this chance to make some major improvements to the game, and we really think this is going to be the best edition yet. We’ve worked with the community to forge these new rules – so if you’ve sent in suggestions or gotten involved in the FAQ process on our Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page over the past year, then you have helped shape this new edition – so thanks to all of you for your input!

This is the game you know, but improved, faster, bloodier and better. The rules team have gone to great lengths to make sure that every unit, weapon, vehicle and character has its role – everything will be useful, and every miniature will have a place in your army.

We know you’ll have questions. Hopefully you’ll find a few answers here, in our FAQ on the new edition.

We’re not stopping there, though – we’ll be bringing you more news every day here on the Warhammer Community site.

But wait, there’s more.

To celebrate the upcoming new edition, and to introduce any of you who may be new to Warhammer 40,000, we’ve created an all new website. Go here to explore this grim dark setting and discover the factions that battle for supremacy in the far future (plus a few hints at what may be to come…).
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FAQ
Is my army still valid?
Yes, it certainly is! You’ll still be able to use your army in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. All current armies will be supported with new rules.

Can I still use all my models?
Yes. Every Warhammer 40,000 miniature we sell today will be usable in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. What’s more, they’ll be supported with new rules, which will be available from the get go in handy, low-cost books.

Even Forge World models?
Yes, even all of your Warhammer 40,000 Forge World models**.

Wait, did you guys blow up the universe?
Nope. This is very much still the Warhammer 40,000 setting you know and love. Now, that’s not to say we won’t see the story advance – there’s some pretty epic stuff ahead! You can certainly expect to see the story arcs that began in the recent Gathering Storm campaign books continue to unfold with plenty of exciting developments to look forward to…

How can I get the rules?
We’re going to make it easier than ever to get your hands on the rules and start playing. The core rules for the game will be free, and you’ll have several options on how you get your hands on the full rulebook. Watch this space for more.

Have you dumbed down 40K?
Not at all. We’ve made it easier for new people to enter and get to grips with the basics. At the same time, we’ve made sure you can add as much depth and complexity as you like – there’s some fantastic new gameplay elements coming. What we’ve done is reexamine every aspect of the game, and made plenty of improvements, many based on the gaming community’s feedback and suggestions. If you play today, this game is recognisably still Warhammer 40,000.

What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soon. If you do want to pick any up, now’s the time – as all of the great hobby content and background information will be as valid as ever.

What’s in the new starter box?
A new starter box? That’d be exciting! I guess we’d fill it with some awesome new miniatures… (come on, we can’t spoil all the surprises for you!)

Are you getting rid of points?
Not at all. There will be a full points system, for use in matched play – one of three ways to play covered in the rulebook.

What do you mean “3 ways to play”?
We realise that people like to play Warhammer 40,000 in different ways. 3 broad systems are covered in the new edition: 1) Open play is the most flexible, and easiest to get started with, allowing you to use any miniatures you like. 2) Narrative play is where you can refight the iconic battles of the 41st Millennium, or create your own campaigns and sagas. 3) Matched play is designed for more balanced and competitive games, ideal for gaming clubs, leagues and tournaments. However you want to enjoy playing Warhammer 40,000, there will be rules for that.

Why should I not just stick with current Warhammer 40,000?
This is the version of Warhammer 40,000 you’ve been asking for. We’ve listened to your feedback, and we really believe that this is the best Warhammer 40,000 has ever been.

Will the rules be updated annually (ala, the General’s Handbook)?
What a great idea! We’ve had such a fantastic response to our community-led approach with the Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules updates that we’re committed to doing the same for Warhammer 40,000. You’ll be able to submit your questions and queries on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page and we’ll make sure we continue to evolve the game as feedback rolls in.

I haven’t played 40K in a while…
Welcome back! The new Warhammer 40,000 is easier to learn and quicker to play, but still has all the tactical, strategic and narrative depth you could want from a game set in the incredibly rich setting of the 41st Millennium. It’s going to be easier than ever to get started, and more fun than ever to master.

Why should I trust you?
Come on! This is New Games Workshop™

Seriously though, everything we’re talking about now is just an extension of all the community engagement work we’ve been doing over this last year and a half. We’ve learned a lot from you guys and gals, and we’ve tried really hard to make sure everything you’ve asked for is included. And if we’ve missed something? Drop us a line on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page and let us know. We’ll make sure your requests are given proper consideration.

Where can I find out more?
We’ll be running daily articles on the run up to release on warhammer-community.com. Every aspect of the new edition will be covered, from rules, to new miniatures and advancements in the setting.

I love it. I want it. When can I have it!
Really soon. You’ll be playing the new Warhammer 40,000 this year.

We’ll let you know when we have more news on an exact release date. Stay posted.
For the latest news, follow us on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page, or subscribe to our newsletter.

What do I do now?
Now’s the time to start getting your army ready.

With the addition of 3 ways to play, there are now more ways to build your collection than ever before. Open play frees you from all constraints, so now’s the time to just pick a model you’ve always wanted and paint it up. For you narrative players, why not start theming your collection around your favourite battle? Just like many of you, we want our armies to be fighting fit for matched play in the new edition. That’s why you’ll be able to read daily articles on the Warhammer Community site that will tell you all about the new rules, great units to include and tactics for every army.

*The edition’s not even out and you guys have an FAQ – how times have changed!

**A few of you might be wondering how the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 affects Forge World’s Horus Heresy rules and army lists. Well, for the moment, it won’t! You can carry on using the existing Warhammer 40,000 ruleset for your Horus Heresy games.
 
Yesterday morning they held a live Q&A with two of the main developers on the GW Facebook channel. Some highlights include:

• Vehicles with Toughness and Wounds, lessened effectiveness as they take damage. Monstrous creatures will work the same way.
• All armies redesigned from the ground up to better reflect their background, archetypes, and intended playstyles
• An average 1500-point (equivalent) game should take about 90 minutes to play
• Narrative play supported from the outset – three ways to play – covering campaign styles, different types of game, etc
• All models will receive rules in the new edition.
• Command Points: a mechanism for encouraging background-reflective armies.
o Battle-forged force org charts, with 14 different force org charts in the rules. These generate command points (different amounts, depending on the requirements of a given chart). “Almost impossible” to put together an army that doesn’t fit at least one of the force org charts. The bigger the minimum size of the org chart, the more Command Points it provides, and while you can field more than one org chart, you can’t mix factions within a single org chart.
o Options for Command Points include interrupting turn sequence in specific ways, but maximum of 1 point spent per phase.
o Numerous core options in the main rules, but new codices will include unique Command Point options for each faction and sub-faction.
• Templates are going away – the game no longer requires them
• Playtested both internally and externally, with the help of major tournament organisers across the world
• Rules format: every unit, every army, will have rules on day 1. Five books, much lower cost than a codex, rules only, released on day 1, with each book covering a broad swathe of the armies and units (so a Space Marines book, a Chaos book, etc), with Codices coming later.
• Expansions (cities of death, planetstrike, etc): new takes on those concepts in development
• Matched Play rules (points cost, competitive/tournament focussed rules) will be reviewed and revised annually.
• A platform for feedback to be sent in directly
• Core rules are free, and printed copies will be available in limited supply, and will be reprinted in other books as well
• An app similar to the AoS app is in development
• Tournament guidelines are part of the match play rules
• “Imperium vs Chaos” conflict pushed back to the fore, after having “slipped” in recent years
• Two sets of points values – rougher, less granular “unit level” values for narrative play where precise values aren’t necessary, and more detailed “model and weapon level” values for competitive play
• New factions on the way
• Everything can hurt everything else – “bolters can hurt tanks”, but stats like Wounds can go above 10, with anti-tank weapons inflicting multiple wounds per hit, so it won’t be easy for rifles to kill land raiders.
• Allies are still part of the game, but work differently to currently – unit rules are keyword-driven, so a Space Marine hero’s abilities only affect other Space Marines, limiting multi-faction “death stars”.
• Voucher scheme to reimburse people for rulebook and codex purchases within 8 weeks of the announcement – to be detailed on facebook later.
 
Damn, they're not messing around, are they? My question is, are these the same people behind Age of Sigmar, or has this GW restructuring happened since then?

I hope they go back to 3rd in the sense that every Founding Legion had it's own special rules, like Iron Hands having Terminator Sergeants in Tactical Squads but moving like Termies also.
 
The company takeover happened after Age of Sigmar, so these are the people that gave AoS a point system and re-introduced codexes. There's definitely some elements from AoS's design being used here, but it looks like they are being much smarter about it.
 
TristramEvans said:
There's definitely some elements from AoS's design being used here, but it looks like they are being much smarter about it.
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Yeah, those sly questions in the FAQ are a pretty good sign they've learned something from that botchery.

What's your opinion of what you've seen so far Tristram?

Personally, I'm hoping the setting's style as a whole might take a step back from the grimdark and toward the old satirical gallows humor I preferred.
 
I'm optimistic about the rules, but I don't think we're going to see a return to the black humour of the Rogue Trader era. 40K just takes it too seriously these days; even the little animated trailer they did for the announcement is very SERIOUS and PORTENTOUS. My main exposure to 40K these days comes from the web series "What if the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device?", I haven't read the modern published background or codexes at all. But then, I avoid the fluff of Age of Sigmar too.
 
TristramEvans said:
My main exposure to 40K these days comes from the web series "What if the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device?", I haven't read the modern published background or codexes at all.
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Krueger introduced me to Text-to-Speech, and I'm glad he did. My girlfriend found me watching it and couldn't even begin to understand what was going on or why I was chuckling about it.

TristramEvans said:
But then, I avoid the fluff of Age of Sigmar too.
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Wait, are you implying by contrast that you don't avoid the rules of AoS? That doesn't sound right. Have you found something of value in them recently?

CRKrueger said:
hope they go back to 3rd in the sense that every Founding Legion had it's own special rules, like Iron Hands having Terminator Sergeants in Tactical Squads but moving like Termies also.
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I just hope they find it in their hearts to throw slightly meatier bones at the not-marine factions. :p
 
Shipyard Locked said:
Wait, are you implying by contrast that you don't avoid the rules of AoS? That doesn't sound right. Have you found something of value in them recently?
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Heh, I like the AoS rules.

I understand the complaints, but I look at it like this: for years Warhammer Fantasy was an attempt to stretch and fit a set of skirmish rules to cover mass combat fantasy battle. They did okay, but the top-up design parameters never really fit that niche, and the more compensations were made, the further away from verisimilitude the system got. When I want mass fantasy, I turn to Warmaster, or its spiritual successor for 28mm, Hail Caesar. AoS stripped all that away and went back to Warhammer's roots as a fantasy skirmish game, that plays well with a handful of troops in a warband, is easily modifiable, and suits narrative scenarios much better than simple PvP battles.

Right now, I'm playing in a long-term campaign wherein we fight over territory and special landmarks using Warmaster, but we intersperse this with smaller scenarios using AoS. For example, we recently played out the raid of an Imperial camp at night by an Eshin Assassin and a small group of Gutter Runners. AoS is great for that sort of thing. In another scenario, the leader of the vampire count armies was attempting to make his way through a mountain pass in a black coach during the daytime, guarded by a small coterie of ghouls, and was ambushed by a tribe of Beastmen who were attempting to stop the Black Coach from reaching the castle. In another game, A Dark Elf Wizard and a Skaven Grey Seer led small groups in an attempt to steal eggs from the nest of a mother Dragon. The loose rules-lite approach of AoS handled all these situations with flavour and speed. And they recall to me, more than anything, the Oldhammer gaming approach of 1st to 3rd edition.
 
You're the first WHFB dude I've heard say anything nice about that ruleset. Guess I'll give it a second look.
 
Quick question: How does AoS compare to previous skirmish level GW rulesets like Mordheim? I'm not asking for a rule-by-rule comparison, just an overview based on experience.
 
Mordheim has more complex rules for injury and activities like climbing, jumping etc. AoS is more broad in scope, covering every creature in the Warhammer world. Like Mordheim, AoS does have options for an experience system and ongoing campaigns in the General's Handbook, based mostly upon the Realms of Chaos books. I would say the big difference is Mordheim is focused on small bands of 5-10 figures in an urban environment, AoS is focused on small warbands of 30-50 models in a wilderness environment.

There's a pretty nifty AoS-Mordheim conversion here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2wtslxi5wm65li8/AAB6kZliBHc-OiuzxsAyoc3sa?dl=0
Introductory video to the project here:
 
New info on the 8th Edition starter set...

The starter set goes live the 17th and is going to be Death Guard Vs. Ultramarines, $120 box. Chaos gets a blob of cultists, a few terminators, a few plague marines, a lord, and drones. Loyalists get 2 tactical squads, a devastator, an assault squad, plus a librarian and a captain. Comes with dice and rulers as well.

In addition, there will be the standard soft cover core rules booklet and a small campaign book. The campaign book has the stats for all the dudes in the box, plus a series of narrative missions that set up the ground floor for the first real story arc of the new edition.

Codex
AoS was very much a test kitchen for what to expect of the “New Warhammer 40k”. AoS had a rocky start, but they learned from their mistakes, and recently even AoS has surpassed 40k in some regards.

The battle tome will become the template for the codex, not the other way around. Each dex will get the special army wide rules, 6-12 relics, 6 warlord traits, and 6 psychic powers, only now it’s written that you can chose to ether select or roll on warlord/psychic charts. It will also contain full rules and points for all the old and new units in a given army, and special rules for things like warbands, campaigns, narrative missions and the like.

Formations are back, but they cost points now, and so are decurons, but they will be a lot more flexible and take cues from their AoS counterparts.

Overview
6th and 7th edition suffered from growing pains and an identity crisis. GW spent a good amount of time and money figuring out what they want 8th edition to really feel like, and are using what they learned in 40k 6th-7th edition and AoS V1.0-1.2 to rebuild 40k from the ground up. They want new players to feel less intimidated by the dense lore and setting, but want to keep returning players invested in the storyline. Black library is going to do a soft reboot for some of the new 40k lore books, with a gimmicky “New Warhammer” type flagship launch to, as I said before, laydown a ground floor for the upcoming 8th edition.
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"Black library is going to do a soft reboot for some of the new 40k lore books, with a gimmicky “New Warhammer” type flagship launch to, as I said before, laydown a ground floor for the upcoming 8th edition."

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Sounds like they still think the toy soldier game should be the basis of their IP instead of the Lore behind it, which encompasses all miniatures, novels, video games, and even movies.

AoS might be the coolest set of rules imaginable, doesn't change the fact that they took one of the best known fantasy worlds in gaming and turned it into a fucking Loony Tunes cartoon.
 
CRKrueger said:
AoS might be the coolest set of rules imaginable, doesn't change the fact that they took one of the best known fantasy worlds in gaming and turned it into a fucking Loony Tunes cartoon.
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Yeah, AoS has the worst fluff imaginable, I swear it was written by a 13 year old My Little Pony fan.
 
Skaven made out largely unchanged, except that The Horned Rat replaced Slaanesh as the 4th main Chaos God. All in all, AoS has been good to Skaven. Rumours are they are getting a big release this year following the steampunk dwarves.
 
TristramEvans said:
Slaanesh wasn't kid friendly enough, I think was the main reason.
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Seriously? So now the kid-friendly new chaos pantheon consists of a genocidal heavy metal album cover, John Carpenter's The Thing with satanic magic, your grampa's cancer personified, and your grampa's cancer personified but also a rat?

Tell me it was market testing in the U.S. that yielded this puritanical hypocrisy, I don't want to believe England itself is that far gone.

TristramEvans said:
As for the Chaos God The Horned Rat most overlaps with, I just wrote an extensive article on the subject: http://pariedolia.weebly.com/nimh/secret-origins-of-the-horned-rat
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Goddamn it, why aren't people like you in charge of this thing?
 
Shipyard Locked said:
Goddamn it, why aren't people like you in charge of this thing?
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lol, that would be nice. "Ambassador of the Ratmen" is a job-title I could get behind.

In my case, I've been working on my own mass fantasy system, and an extensive world to go with it that captures some of the flavour of Warhammer circa 3rd edition. Almost a "Warhammer Fantasy OSR" type project. I may write about it a bit here at some point.
 
TristramEvans said:
In my case, I've been working on my own mass fantasy system, and an extensive world to go with it that captures some of the flavour of Warhammer circa 3rd edition. Almost a "Warhammer Fantasy OSR" type project. I may write about it a bit here at some point.
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What would you change?
 
Well, it'd be nice to do just a cleaned-up version of Warhammer 3rd with the lore intact, but I'm not going to provoke GW's aggressive legal team with that, and it'd be nice to eventually market my efforts, so the system and the world are original, just with an attempt to capture the flavour of 80s Warhammer. The system is done, give or take, but the world-building is taking up a lot of my time.

Instead of "The Old World", it takes place in "The Otherworld", literally the alternate world conceived of in European folklore and myth. The idea is that the space-time there is somewhat in flux and more malleable than our world. There are places where the geography is constant , "Kingdoms", based on the Medieval conception of the Monarch and the land being one. But the further from civilization one goes, or outside the domain of a particular monarch, one can end up anywhere in The Otherworld. This is particularly expressed by The Mountains Perilous, The Sea Primordial, and the Forest Primeval - all mountains, oceans, and forests are essentially one place, connected to every other part of The Otherworld. Likewise, The Otherworld's history is one of a series of "invasions" from our world. The dreams of the past, things lost to history, all make their way into The Otherworld. The last great influx was humans, "mortals", which coincided with the "Lost Week" when the Julian Calendar was adopted. Humans are unique in that they have, inherently, "time to spend", the ability to enact change in the world. Other inhabitants of the Otherworld are bound to their own stories, the immortal lives of Elves and Dwarves a constant cycle unless a Mortal interferes (or a Mortal's "soul" is fed upon in some way, allowing The Fey to steal the Mortal's ability to affect fate).

The Otherworld also faces three dire outside threats. The Devilish Legions of The Howling, or Abyss, which is ruled by Goetic demons based upon the traditions of Ceremonial magic (based on the concept of "Qlippoths", beings from realities that ceased to or never existed and fitting the role of classic devils from the Lesser Key of Solomon). They occupy a role similar to a debased Roman Empire, and are held in check by a Tithe paid in Mortal souls collected by The Wyld Hunt. Alternately, The Inferno is home to more classical demons, fire and brimstone monsters fuelled by rage, hate, and bloodlust, the expression of Chaos to The Howling's Ordered evil. They are held in check by the Ogres and Orcs who form a faux-Ottoman Empire. And finally there is the strange alien forces from The Void (very much a retro "creatures from Dimension X" type thing), a Phantasmagoria of sentient slimes, tentacled horrors, and mind-eating parasites who lead an army of mindless shells of warriors and mutants.

Beyond these external antagonists, there are also the The Fuath ("The Hated"), the former rulers of the Otherworld driven into underwater exile by the Sidhe (corresponding to the Fimir of Warhammer), who worship a Lovecraftian elder god.

The Otherworld is divided into certain realms corresponding to the cultures on our world their mythology is based upon. There is Elphyne (corresponding to Britain, and home to the Seelie and Unseelie courts), Laurentia (corresponding to Canada) home to colonies of Hobs/Hobgoblins, the equivalent of Halflings/Hobbits), Thule (corresponding to Iceland/Antartica), a Hyperborean landscape of barbaric legends, Armoricia ( to Brittany, France), Arcadia (corresponding to Greece and pre-colonized America), Ytheria (corresponding to Spain/Portugal),Ruritainia (corresponding to middle Europe), Svartalfheim and Jotunheim (corresponding to the Nordic and Baltic lands), home of dwarves, giants, and trolls, Myrkheim (corresponding to The Prussian Empire), Niflheimr (The Land of Mists, corresponding to Eastern Europe), The Thrice-Tenth Lands (corresponding to Russia and Slavic countires), Prester Khan's Kingdom (corresponding to The Middle Eastern Steppes), and Magog (corresponding to the Ottoman Empire). And then there is The Three Kingdoms and the Empire of Jade (corresponding to Asia), Gon (corresponding to Egypt, India, The Middle East), and Gonwalla (corresponding to Africa and South America).
 
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TristramEvans said:
But the further from civilization one goes, or outside the domain of a particular monarch, one can end up anywhere in The Otherworld. This is particularly expressed by The Mountains Perilous, The Sea Primordial, and the Forest Primeval - all mountains, oceans, and forests are essentially one place, connected to every other part of The Otherworld.
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I really dig this.

What's your skaven analogue?
 
Shipyard Locked said:
I really dig this.

What's your skaven analogue?
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The Fir Darrig, the "Ratboys" of Scottish folklore. I forgot to mention that the game is Scot-centric in the same way Warhammer is German-centric.

There are also, however, the cloţan (sobolan) ratmen of Romanian myth, in this case the "Lab Rats", taking on the role of clans Skryre and Moulder as mad scientists and fleshcrafters in the Ravenloft-esque Niflheim. The Nezumi from the East (taking the role of Eshin), and in the Plaguelands of Mammon, a fanatic monastic order of Ratmen, the Cenobites*. Collectively, I refer to the various ratmen kindreds as "Skermyn Wererats."

* - yeah, I know, there's still and always will be the Clive Barker association with that term, And if it was ten years ago, I wouldn't have dreamed of using it, but the Hellraiser franchise has long been flushed down the crapper, with the final flush being Barker's godawful Scarlet Gospels, one of the biggest literary disappointments of my life. So when I was looking for a term for a religious order of ratmen, "Cenobites" just fit so well.
 
TristramEvans said:
So when I was looking for a term for a religious order of ratmen, "Cenobites" just fit so well.
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I'd say Hellraiser hasn't been a notable cultural presence for far longer than 10 years, so you're definitely safe. I saw the term cenobite used for a githzerai order in an early 2000s issue of dragon magazine too.

Besides, you're doing an obvious spiritual successor to WHFB, so you've got bigger baggage to worry about than an old horror franchise. :p
 
By the way, how much homebrewing was needed to make AoS work with the old fluff? I know they provided conversions for a while, but those were really poorly received, right? I guess you implied they redid the conversion, but how thorough was it?
 
Shipyard Locked said:
By the way, how much homebrewing was needed to make AoS work with the old fluff? I know they provided conversions for a while, but those were really poorly received, right? I guess you implied they redid the conversion, but how thorough was it?
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Oh, none at all. When the game was released, the released all the old army books converted for free, these should still be available. So not only everything needed to continue playing in the Old World, but all armies with up-to-date rules for the first time in memory.
 
they will be free on release, till then they've been doing a daily overview of each individual phase. They also did a live FAQ on Facebook a few days ago. Also no more codexes, they'll be doing 5 books at $20 a piece covering every army (Chaos Space Marines, Space Marines, Imperium, Eldar/Dark Eldar/Tau and Necrons/Tyranids/Genestealers), and once a year the books will be updated based on player feedback
 
I play WHF every week and the group still plays with the 6th edition rules. We are not going to change. We are going to keep playing using 6th edition until we die.
 
Given GW's track record, I can't blame Delver for looking for a catch.

DMWill1970 said:
I play WHF every week and the group still plays with the 6th edition rules. We are not going to change. We are going to keep playing using 6th edition until we die.
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Is 6th edition the consensus edition among old schoolers?

Also, what's the best way to play WHFB tabletop online?
 
As long as you've found what you like. I've never been one of the "if a company publishes a new edition, everything beforehand is dead and unplayable" types. Then again, the only 40K I've liked so far is Rogue Trader, but I may give the new edition a shot if I like what I read.
 
Shipyard Locked said:
Given GW's track record, I can't blame Delver for looking for a catch.
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Yeah, GW has a sordid past. But the new CEO is doing amazing stuff.

Is 6th edition the consensus edition among old schoolers?
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Not at all. 6th would be more like D&D 3.5. The Oldhammer community is mostly focused around 1e and 2e.

Also, what's the best way to play WHFB tabletop online?
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dont know if its possible, seems like it would take a massive program. It would pretty much be like a videogame. Total War apparently does a really good job with fantasy (but Im holding off getting it until the Skaven expansion comes out), Dont know if theres a 40k equivalent.
 
Sixth edition WFB was a big shift towards a more tactical cavalry and troops oriented game. It had a couple balance issues, fear was very powerful and the system for restricting characters meant some armies couldn't compete in the hero department. Sixth was slave to sequencing though not to the extent of eighth. Seventh starts out as a blander, watered down sixth and grows into the over the top heroes and monsters game eighth edition favors. If you want epic over the top fantasy eighth is okay though the melee sequence is a mess. They either went too far or not far enough. Either scrap always strikes first and stomp or scrap initiative already.
 
David Johansen said:
Sixth edition WFB was a big shift towards a more tactical cavalry and troops oriented game. It had a couple balance issues, fear was very powerful and the system for restricting characters meant some armies couldn't compete in the hero department. Sixth was slave to sequencing though not to the extent of eighth. Seventh starts out as a blander, watered down sixth and grows into the over the top heroes and monsters game eighth edition favors. If you want epic over the top fantasy eighth is okay though the melee sequence is a mess. They either went too far or not far enough. Either scrap always strikes first and stomp or scrap initiative already.
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lol, thats fantasy, we were talking about 40k.

But yeah, mostly agree. The thing is 6th was a reaction to 4th and 5th editions, commonly called "Herohammer", because single and special characters were so over the top powerful that they made units of regular troops largely redundant. Its a predictable balancing act - you want the "BIGDAMNHEROES" of the fantasy setting to be resilient enough so that they arent going to get offed by a horde of goblins, but at the same time you want a mass fantasy battle to largely be about the manoeuvring of troops and tactical choices. 6th-8th were all about putting the focus back onto the interplay of units, but its also here we saw most the underpinning weakness and inappropriateness of using the framework of a bottom-up skirmish game engine to try and handle large scale battles.
 
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