Bolting down the hatches and ‘being complete’.

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Trippy

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I think somebody raised a ‘being complete’ thread somewhere a few weeks ago, but I thought I’d build on the topic in a topical way.

I’m a RPG fan, like most people here I think, who collects games and supplements I like, as I have done for most of my life. I guess it is part of the hobby to get excited by new releases, as much as it is playing, with the evidence being the number of games on my shelf that I haven’t played in any regular way. I get enticed by Most Anticipated lists and frustrated by delays, as much as anyone else. The idea of ‘completeness’ in my collection has been pretty moot - I’ll never be ‘complete' and really, the notion is more to do with game designers or businesses planning their lines.

But times may be a-changing. The impact of things like Covid, Brexit (not making a political statement here, but several RPG companies have directly cited its impact) and various other global trading arrangements becoming more restricted, is massively affecting both the cost and distribution of physical items this year. I think it is a trend much more than a blip, and we will all need to adapt to all sorts of things, including our gaming habits.

Changing trends are already the case, of course. D&D and tabletop gaming in general has actually been positively affected, reportedly, with global lockdowns actually enhancing sales substantially as families get stuck at home and/or gamers get focussed on online playing. PDFs have been around for a while too now, as a cheaper, quicker mode of distribution (although it is nowhere near the total market size of regular physically distributed games). You can always get games - include many that are out of print, brought back to life by POD.

However, for me personally, I am less and less inclined towards getting new games. My thoughts have started to shifting over what games, in my collection, are basically ‘complete’ to play and flatly require no more supplements. For example, I’ve enjoyed buying V5 over the last few years but once they finally get out their pre-orders to me - Sabbat, Book of Nod and Second Inquisition, I can’t really see much more that I want to get. The books I have cover everything I want in my Chronicle - and I can expand on anything else with my own (and my group’s) imagination. Most other games I have are already ‘complete’ to me, for the same reason - I never felt the need to get many physical supplements for D&D outside of the core books. For Traveller, I’m holding out on The Robots Book and possibly The Third Imperium and then, honestly, that is probably enough. Call of Cthulhu has the Gaslight stuff coming out but, along with Delta Green, I can span the entire globe already with what I’ve got. Anniversary Editions, be damned!

At the start of the year, I was aiming to get a few new editions of older games which, aside from Pendragon 6th, have already been ordered/backed. It’s just a waiting game for how long till they come. But new games? The stuff I’ve seen announced - a new Marvel game, Batman: Gotham, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Power Rangers, Blade Runner, etc are interesting as high profile IPs (illustrating how the RPG hobby keeps growing into new markets, currently) but they hold absolutely no interest to me, personally. I can essentially do most of them already with games I already have.

Aside from Pendragon 6th, the only other thing that flickers on my radar is the thought of a Luther Arkwright game.

So, should I bolt down the hatches, and be happy with what I’ve got for the rest of my gaming life, as am I nearly ‘complete’? Are you?

What should all serious RPG collectors/players have in their collection to be ‘complete’?
 
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Good question and you'll get a bunch of different responses because we all have our opinions. My perspective is (besides all the stuff we like/collect) we all need a system that adaptable and "generic" so you have range. I'm not sure I have that system yet or if I do I don't realize it. LOL
 
Good question and you'll get a bunch of different responses because we all have our opinions. My perspective is (besides all the stuff we like/collect) we all need a system that adaptable and "generic" so you have range. I'm not sure I have that system yet or if I do I don't realize it. LOL
Generally, I am not a fan of ‘Generic, Universal’ systems, although I have a few that, in my own collection I tend to bracket with Supers games. This is partially because, I’m not that much of a supers fan enough that I have particularly selective taste, and partially because I think a lot of supers games (Champions, etc) tend to have aspirations towards being generic and universal in application. For the record, I do have Fate and Savage Worlds on my shelf as generic game systems, but I see both primarily as action/supers engines primarily.

I think what I tend to prefer is games that have versatility in terms of of being able to include a wide variety of sources - so D&D, Traveller, Call of Cthulhu are pretty much my bread and butter games. After that, I go for niches with specific flavours or applications, or specific settings that I like.
 
It's always a sad, sobering moment when your inner collector realizes that there is less life time wherein to play with their ever growing hoard. :sad:

But sometimes that knowledge is also a gift, and that's why we call it the present. Live. Laugh. Love. Dance like nobody's watching. Oh fuck, I'm now old like my parents! :weep:
 
What should all serious RPG collectors/players have in their collection to be ‘complete’?

I've never been a big one for supplements. I have always felt — for forty years, anyway — happier with an RPG that is complete in one book, or that consists of a complete system in one book and a complete setting in another. In my heyday my full RPG battle rattle looked like this:

IMG_1134.jpeg

At the top left are two copies of ForeSight, an SF RPG that was sufficiently general that I was happy to use it for anything except for superheroes and fantasy. Next to that are two copies of HindSight, a low-tech and fantasy supplement for ForeSight. Then you have a collection of folders containing pre-gen ForeSight and HindSight characters for pick-up games in four favourite genres. Then a blank notebook and some writing instruments. The bottom row starts with the backgound material for my home-brew SF setting, then the background info for my home-brew fantasy setting, then a folder of notes for each of my then-current campaigns. Then a calculator, enough dice for everyone, blank index cards in four colours, and a pocket atlas of the world. (This is a reconstruction in 2009 of my "standard RPG toolkit" from before I got an iPad with access to Google Maps and Wikipedia, hence the retro-tech inclusion of the atlas).

That's the complete set. My everyday carry (my "basic RPG toolkit") was even leaner.

I do have a couple of shelf-metres full of RPGs and supplements, and perhaps a small number of hundreds of PDFs, that I have bought for various reasons and even played some of them. But I rate nearly all of them as superfluous rather than as integral parts of a complete collection. I could lose them all tomorrow, and never mind at all.
 
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Actually, that is another thing I have been thinking of, but how many supplements I have as PDFs that I could, at any time, simply take to my local printer and print off? I say this particularly about adventures and scenarios - are they really worth buying in full hardcopy?
 
Actually, that is another thing I have been thinking of, but how many supplements I have as PDFs that I could, at any time, simply take to my local printer and print off? I say this particularly about adventures and scenarios - are they really worth buying in full hardcopy?

I’m pretty sure that if I’d bought a number of the RPG products in hardcopy rather than PDF in recent years I’d have given up on RPGs, as they weren’t worth the cost of the PDFs, let alone what their hardcopy cost would have been.

As to your original question, I’m 95% certain I won’t be playing RPGs outside solo play again, after my departure from my gaming group of 20+ years. Anything I buy now is simply to read, or possibly solo play later. Given my being burned on the last two Kickstarter RPGs I backed, I think I’m giving up on such RPGs until I see them actually for sale. I’m sure I’d br fine gaming through what I have now, with no new additions.
 
Actually, that is another thing I have been thinking of, but how many supplements I have as PDFs that I could, at any time, simply take to my local printer and print off? I say this particularly about adventures and scenarios - are they really worth buying in full hardcopy?
Yeah absolutely. I’ve been selling off some 5e D&D adventure hardbacks because I found them wholly unusable. The sheer amount of notes and charts that I had to make… better off just getting them digitally (now that we can) and print out the parts that I need and read the fluff on my tablet.

As for the main question, I feel the same way (or at least I think I do). Im finding myself less and less inclined to collect anymore unless the product “fills a gap” on my shelf. I acquired Cyberpunk Red because I had no system that could handle it in a self-contained fashion (Fate and Savage Worlds could, but I needed to add rules, exceptions and sub-systems from other books and it became quite a hassle).

I recently made the “mistake” of trying to use D&D as a generic system for fantasy. I had to hack so many things to meet the players’ expectations (from many other books, including, ironically enough, the official Witcher RPG). So that’s a prime example of my need of simplicity going forward.

By that I mean, from now on, any game that I run has to use a single system and book. That will force me to use and enjoy what I already own. I’ve got stuff to cover most things now, but not everything, and that’s okay.

Turning 40 this year and I have a lower desire to do hacking, honestly.
 
I'm in a constant battle with myself making sure more goes out of my door than comes in it! I'd love to be able to get more on top of this... between all my RPGs, video games, board games and other books I want to read I have more than enough to last me for decades so it's ridiculous (and a little obscene) that I keep buying things. I regularly go through 'purges' to try and address this but all that seems to do is free up shelf space! Ultimately, for me, there may be something deeper going on - perhaps I'm not fulfilled and there's a lot of retail therapy involved in my selections and FOMO too. I do need to get a grip on it though as looking back to my teens and 20s when I had far less I was actually happier and more creative with my hobbies. Obviously, this is all about physical stuff for me, primarily. I have a huge amount of PDFs but those don't take up physical space and there's therefore "out of sight, out of mind" at play with those so they don't emotionally weigh me down as much. I often look at all my stuff and actually get guilty and annoyed with myself for not "properly using them" which obviously isn't healthy and something I need to address.

Just for reference, I'm 49 (next week), in a well paid job, etc so there's no issue with debt, etc.
 
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Not a fan of splatbook-style supplemental rules as they regularly break the game. Background detail, adventures, covering new aspects of the game and so on are fine.

Heavy Gear 2nd Ed + Life on Terra Nova. All you'll ever need.

Jovian Chronicles 1st Ed + the JC Companion + Mechanical Catalogue 1. Complete.

Blue Planet 2nd Ed ran to 7 books, and every one of them is full of ideas.

The Far Future Enterprises CD collections for Traveller, 2300AD and Twilight 2000 are amazing value. Mark will give you a link to his Dropbox rather than mailing them to you.

If you can find them, the printed Traveller collections are also great.

Call of Cthulhu 5th or 6th is effectively standalone, but the supplements are so damn great...

Ditto for The One Ring.

Ryuutama is worth it just for refefining what an "adventure" is away from the usual.

I'm very happy with my collection of RQ2 reprints from Chaosium. The core book isn't standalone really, but add Cults of Prax, Trollpak and one of the campaign books and you're set. They are cheap and addictive though...
 
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HeavyThe Far Future Enterprises CD collections for Traveller, 2300AD and Twilight 2000 are amazing value. Mark will give you a link to his Dropbox rather than mailing them to you.

Do you know if that includes when he does the bulk sale deal?
 
I am pretty picky about getting new games. I have a bunch of games, some older, some news, I am pretty content with I could cycle through for years without feeling stale. Bear in mind, I am not the only GM in my group, so I am not constantly running games.

I think the main driver for picking up something new these days about creating a positive buzz and excitement among my players. That inital buzz is very beneficial to a new campaign. I'm not saying I never make the odd, impluse purchase, but it's become pretty rare and it often ends up unplayed or even unread.
 
What should all serious RPG collectors/players have in their collection to be ‘complete’?
I really enjoyed your thorough coverage of the topic. You are a solid writer. With all due respect and love here is my response. :smile:

Nothing.

Fill your shelves with chronicles of your adventures that you created. A few systems and modules for inspiration. You write like daemon!

I also recognize that you are what keeps the industry alive. I thank you for that.
 
I feel I have the few games I need to be complete from an actual gaming point of view. I have Earthdawn as my go to fantasy game and Shadowrun that I will one day return to. I have Warhammer and its clone and that's pretty much my individual gaming needs sorted. I have a D&D back catalogue in its earlier incarnations which I still delve into from time to time for inspiration.

Anything above that is usually because I'm interested in different mechanics or settings. As an author reading other systems is a helpful pastime even if I know I will never get to play a game. Occasionally my players want something a little different but that's always a fad and rarely lasts very long.
 
Prior to the recent spate of revived products, I was happy about a bunch of "finished" product lines like Talislanta. These were appealing to me for having a good bit of material to provide a place to start from without any worry of more material coming out that contradicts the setting I developed from what had been available.

Then everything changed...

But thankfully forced by a reduced budget from having gotten married and having kids, I am still open to new stuff for any given game or setting of interest, and I've even gotten into new games (I picked up a bunch of Ninja/Samurai games when I decided to run Bushido), but I am now very picky about what I buy. I probably over bought on sandbox/West Marches stuff when I was trying to set up a West Marches inspired setting for Cold Iron.

I have been slowly accumulating all those FFE Traveller CD-ROMS and will eventually probably get the whole line because you get so much for your money and it's nice and compact.

These days the games on my go to list are:

Early D&D (OD&D, Holmes, BX, AD&D 1e) - I will pick up occasional OSR bits.

Classic Traveller - as mentioned I would purchase additional CD-ROMs, particularly if any new Classic Traveller ones are released.

Burning Wheel - If anything else comes out for this, I'd consider it, maybe stuff has come out, I'm out of the loop...

RuneQuest - I will probably buy some RQG scenarios and supplements, probably even RQG at some point

Cold Iron - well, as a home brew that has never been published, nothing to spend here...
 
I enjoy trying new games that have a different feel/theme/goal of play. Perhaps that may change at some point, but right now that likelihood seems pretty low.

The last thing I want is for one game that “does it all”. Not just because I think of such a system as a black swan, but more that I want to play different games.
 
I am still picking up new games, though I do so on a pretty strict criteria these days. My level of success, in terms of picking new things I enjoy and will keep, has got better with time so there is less gambling/wastage on purchases compared to when I was younger. On the flip side, I am more willing to spend more on what I am confident I will like.
 
I am still picking up new games, though I do so on a pretty strict criteria these days. My level of success, in terms of picking new things I enjoy and will keep, has got better with time so there is less gambling/wastage on purchases compared to when I was younger. On the flip side, I am more willing to spend more on what I am confident I will like.
It's taken me a while, but this is about where I'm at too, Skywalker Skywalker
 
I am still picking up new games, though I do so on a pretty strict criteria these days. My level of success, in terms of picking new things I enjoy and will keep, has got better with time so there is less gambling/wastage on purchases compared to when I was younger. On the flip side, I am more willing to spend more on what I am confident I will like.
This is me exactly!
 
At this point, I get what I need. That's next to nothing. I've got all the games I need, I've got all the reference material I need -- and not many GMs at this point need much on that front beyond what Wikipedia can provide -- I've got dice. It's possible I may never GM off of Discord again, so I may have bought my last mini, battle mat and tube of Liquitex. Honestly, since I keep churning out setting material, by far my chief gaming expenditure these days is for ink cartridges for my printer.
 
Ravenswing Ravenswing I hear ya on the printing. I'm actually getting tired of inkjet printing and have been shopping color laser printers. Unfortunately the one I've kind of decided on is currently out of stock. So now I check once a week for it to come back in stock.
 
Eh, if “complete” meant having all you ever need to run RPGs for the rest of your life, I was complete with the first RPG product I ever bought, Moldvay Basic, because that platform has proven itself expandable and resilient.

But I don’t define RPGs that way. For me they’re a creative, imaginative thing, and as such, I’ll never be complete or done. Every RPG product I read (even the Narrative Shitshows) gets the brain firing both in mechanics and setting ideas/Worldbuilding, not to mention the stuff I can steal to fold, spindle, and mutilate into something else. So, everything I read gives me practical and impractical benefit.
 
Ravenswing Ravenswing I hear ya on the printing. I'm actually getting tired of inkjet printing and have been shopping color laser printers. Unfortunately the one I've kind of decided on is currently out of stock. So now I check once a week for it to come back in stock.
Which one you going with?
 
I think somebody raised a ‘being complete’ thread somewhere a few weeks ago, but I thought I’d build on the topic in a topical way.

I’m a RPG fan, like most people here I think, who collects games and supplements I like, as I have done for most of my life. I guess it is part of the hobby to get excited by new releases, as much as it is playing, with the evidence being the number of games on my shelf that I haven’t played in any regular way. I get enticed by Most Anticipated lists and frustrated by delays, as much as anyone else. The idea of ‘completeness’ in my collection has been pretty moot - I’ll never be ‘complete' and really, the notion is more to do with game designers or businesses planning their lines.

But times may be a-changing. The impact of things like Covid, Brexit (not making a political statement here, but several RPG companies have directly cited its impact) and various other global trading arrangements becoming more restricted, is massively affecting both the cost and distribution of physical items this year. I think it is a trend much more than a blip, and we will all need to adapt to all sorts of things, including our gaming habits.

Changing trends are already the case, of course. D&D and tabletop gaming in general has actually been positively affected, reportedly, with global lockdowns actually enhancing sales substantially as families get stuck at home and/or gamers get focussed on online playing. PDFs have been around for a while too now, as a cheaper, quicker mode of distribution (although it is nowhere near the total market size of regular physically distributed games). You can always get games - include many that are out of print, brought back to life by POD.

However, for me personally, I am less and less inclined towards getting new games. My thoughts have started to shifting over what games, in my collection, are basically ‘complete’ to play and flatly require no more supplements. For example, I’ve enjoyed buying V5 over the last few years but once they finally get out their pre-orders to me - Sabbat, Book of Nod and Second Inquisition, I can’t really see much more that I want to get. The books I have cover everything I want in my Chronicle - and I can expand on anything else with my own (and my group’s) imagination. Most other games I have are already ‘complete’ to me, for the same reason - I never felt the need to get many physical supplements for D&D outside of the core books. For Traveller, I’m holding out on The Robots Book and possibly The Third Imperium and then, honestly, that is probably enough. Call of Cthulhu has the Gaslight stuff coming out but, along with Delta Green, I can span the entire globe already with what I’ve got. Anniversary Editions, be damned!

At the start of the year, I was aiming to get a few new editions of older games which, aside from Pendragon 6th, have already been ordered/backed. It’s just a waiting game for how long till they come. But new games? The stuff I’ve seen announced - a new Marvel game, Batman: Gotham, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Power Rangers, Blade Runner, etc are interesting as high profile IPs (illustrating how the RPG hobby keeps growing into new markets, currently) but they hold absolutely no interest to me, personally. I can essentially do most of them already with games I already have.

Aside from Pendragon 6th, the only other thing that flickers on my radar is the thought of a Luther Arkwright game.

So, should I bolt down the hatches, and be happy with what I’ve got for the rest of my gaming life, as am I nearly ‘complete’? Are you?

What should all serious RPG collectors/players have in their collection to be ‘complete’?

I'm a degenerate collector for pretty much all my interests, but there comes a point for me that buying that new system, setting, supplement is just a marginal improvement or difference over what I currently have. At that point my collecting tapers off and essentially comes to a close.

How many variations of fantasy or scifi or mystery/horror do you need? Hi crunch and low crunch variations for each? Ok I got you! What about settings? Need the basic vanilla flavors. Oh and those ones as well because they turn the cliches on its ears! Fuck it - I'm down for all the shades of grey in between...

But eventually... you've covered all angles and each subsequent purchase gives you less return on usability and ... even worse.... novelty!

That's my critical mass point.

YMMV
 
While there is always the possibility I will try out some new game system (like Bushido), that likelihood has reduced a lot (it actually never was THAT high). Given that, rather than pick up every new thing that looks cool, I pick things up when my interest is actually heading in the direction. As I fired up my Bushido PbP, I picked up Bushido, and some other ninja/samurai games that looked like they might be helpful. I picked up Land of the Rising Sun Kickstarter because that's one game I regret not buying back in the day. While trying to set up the West Marches inspired Cold Iron campaign, I picked up a variety of West Marches and sandbox games and supplements.

But at the moment, I'm not looking to pick up some totally random new game unless and until something prompts me to look in that direction.

I've also mostly got off the universal RPG system, in large part because what has actually grabbed me in the past has been game systems at least theoretically targeted at their setting and genre. Now is there room for some universal mechanics? Sure, I AM playing RuneQuest which eventually became a universal system, but truth is I like the quirkiness of RQ that makes it most suited for the Glorantha setting (even if it was never really Greg's vision of Glorantha). This attitude of course makes me more open to a new system. If I decide I want to play something different, I'm going to want a system to match. On the other hand, I have plenty of things I'd love to give a spin, so why buy anything more? Yea, someday I'll be bit with another inspiration like Bushido that is a setting/genre where I don't have a representative I want to play.

Now all of this could change when I retire and if my idea that I'll be running or playing in several different games per week. In that case I'll have some room for experimentation and might well try out more games and thus open the purse strings more often.
 
...So, should I bolt down the hatches, and be happy with what I’ve got for the rest of my gaming life, as am I nearly ‘complete’? Are you?

What should all serious RPG collectors/players have in their collection to be ‘complete’?
In my view it depends on why you collect.
I get games for five different reasons:
First (and foremost) is to play or more precisely to inspire my own home system;
Second to curate and preserve history so originals do not decay away in some box...in that regard will prioritize little known games over an original D&D brown box set :smile:;
Third nostalgia and the couldn't afford it then but can now motivation. A powerful form of retail therapy :smile:;
Fourth to support the author (this applies almost exclusively to new games), and
Fifth for the art work...this is rare as not a fan of most art see in RPGs (which is odd as there is plenty of great fantasy, sci fi, etc. art out there...maybe too expensive) but I will buy T4 stuff just for the Foss artwork.

One I did not include is breadth and depth of representation of RPG mechanics. Find there is a 90% chance when I see a new RPG extol their mechanics as new, they are far, far from it; and find such shallow knowledge of what has gone before (especially outside of D&D) to be the bane of product evaluation. The devil is of course in the details even in the most of re-used and retreaded mechanics.

Another is to have the whole evolution of a game, all the editions...and I guess if one can afford it all else. For example, I have all the various versions and iterations of Stellar Conquest and the game magazine rule modifications (mostly Space Gamer). This gets more into my board game collecting.

Another is to collect by company, like all the Judges Guild stuff, or all the FASA stuff. I haven't gone down this rabbit hole yet, but may with all things Jaquays.

Another is to cross-collect based on something else you love made into an RPG or game. For example, I buy almost anything Lord of the Rings, The Expanse, Fallout, and others if come across them but haven't made it into a mission yet. This also gets more into my board game collecting.

There are other motivations as well, just some off the top of my head.
 
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