Create your own mythos.

[Stumpydave]

"I'm bored Clytus, what plaything can you offer me today..."
Like, I'm really bored. Even the threads here aren't sparking anything so I'm gonna try and jumpstart out of that funk.

Let's say some big entertainment conglomerate, some bunch of soulless Hollywood corpo-rats pull a fast one and get Lovecraft and associated authors work stripped from the public domain.

How would you go about creating an alternative setting that captures the same feel and themes?

 

[TristramEvans]

Well, first step is identifying those feelings and themes. Most Lovecraft-derived works tend to not be very Lovecraftian at all, ironically enough.

Lovecraftian horror, or more generally "Cosmic Horror", centres on a vast, hostile cosmos where humankind is stripped of all it's ego-centric notions of being "the centre of the universe" or in some way, spiritually or theologically, "special".

Imagine waling down the street and accidentally stepping on and crushing a slug, which you simply didn't notice and react to with little more than disgust as you scrape the slime from your shoe. Now imagine that slug is humanity, it's entire history, civilizations, and accomplishments, and the foot belongs to the closest thing to our conception of a God: a creature so outside of our conceptions of space and time that it's existence and motivations are impenetrably alien. Cosmic Horror comes from the meaningless of human existence in a vast universe where we are nothing more than a biological anomaly that can be wiped out and forgotten with less concern than we'd give to destroying an anthill.

Consider Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot speech:



In this context, what the "Elder Gods" or cosmic horrors faced by humanity, poised to wipe them out in a blink at a moment's notice, are specifically, is immaterial. You don't need Cthulhu or Nyarlothotep, simply the idea that there is something horrible, alien, and incomprehensible beyond humanity's perceptions.

 

[Fenris-77]

I've got some mythic-level background written for my fantasy setting and I approached it at least in part with the mythos in mind, mixed with a murky reflection of Greek myth in terms of there being two competing groups of gods (the Titans and the Gods in the Greek model). My creation myth, if you'll forgive so grand a term, takes a familiar form with 'something' arising out of nothing. The first god is essentially a mythos old one that lives in the depths of the sea and represents chaos and entropy plus the spawning of monsters and endless war in the black depths for his own amusement. A second god, this one a god of the sky arises as essentially a reflection of the other and whom represents order, but not in terms of D&D's 'Lawful'. Instead of that I went with a notion that naming and definition arises only when you have opposed terms. So with the rise of the second god creation begins to clarify as things are named, which is essentially the same as 'created' although not necessarily intentionally. In between these two the land arises between the two gods, essentially out of the contest to define reality.

Once we have land, then following that things like plants and animals, new gods form as something like platonic ideals that represent those things. So we get gods of the forest, mountains, and whatnot like that. These gods represent nature and its processes in all their variety and so you have a range of what humans will eventually call good and evil, but in reality those terms better represent how much the things those gods represent conflict with how humans want to see the world. The Two, and the ones that follow, are the Old Gods.

Once humans happen the setting begins to see the emergence of a second set of gods, ones the represent human ideals and goals arising out of the imposition of human goals and definitions on the world. These gods can generally be defined the gods of civilization although they also contain gods that might be described as both good and evil. So here we have gods of the hearth, farming, justice, war, and art but also things like duplicity, and murder.

The conflict at the god level is then the One and his desire to unmake set against everyone else, but also the gods of civilization set against the gods of nature. This isn't anything brand new of course, but I wanted to move away from strict ideas about good and evil and I wanted there to be a more discrete rationale for what gods humans worship along with a notion that because those gods represent human civilization that humans are essentially worshipping themselves and their ability to impose a certain kind of order on the natural world.

 

[Kardinal Tabbe]

I get my Lovecraftian cosmic horror kicks from cosmic/epic sci fi these days. Stories in the vein of Alistair Reynold's Revalation Space or Pushing Ice, or Liu Cixin's The Three Body Problem-series. I'd build something on the concepts of deep time, the vastness of the universe, the fermi paradox and uncaring, unfathomable forces.

 

[PolarBlues]

Gozer the Traveler. He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!

 

[urbwar]

I've used the charts from both Silent Legions and The Mythos Horror Creation System to help me craft my own deities, cults, aliens, etc. I'm trying to focus stuff on those, with some stuff from the regular Mythos (not entities, but some of the races). I've got art done for some of my aliens and one entity already, and hope to do more

 

[Kobayashi]

I just finished reading the Killing Star, I love the take on E.T lifeforms (10 years before Liu Cixin famed trilogy):

“Imagine yourself taking a stroll through Manhattan, somewhere north of 68th street, deep inside Central Park, late at night. It would be nice to meet someone friendly, but you know that the park is dangerous at night. [...] How do you survive the night? The last thing you want to do is shout, "I'm here!" The next to last thing you want to do is reply to someone who shouts, "I'm a friend!" What you would like to do is find a policeman, or get out of the park. [...] Your safest option is to hunker down and wait for daylight, then safely walk out.

There are, of course, a few obvious differences between Central Park and the universe.

There is no policeman.

There is no way out.

And the night never ends.”

as well as...

"1. THEIR SURVIVAL WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN OUR SURVIVAL.
If an alien species has to choose between them and us, they won't choose us. It is difficult to imagine a contrary case; species don't survive by being self-sacrificing.

2. WIMPS DON'T BECOME TOP DOGS.
No species makes it to the top by being passive. The species in charge of any given planet will be highly intelligent, alert, aggressive, and ruthless when necessary.

3. THEY WILL ASSUME THAT THE FIRST TWO LAWS APPLY TO US.
It’s hard to imagine species evolving without self-preserving traits which entail violence."

That's all the cosmic horror I need

 

[Triumvir]

I get my Lovecraftian cosmic horror kicks from cosmic/epic sci fi these days. Stories in the vein of Alistair Reynold's Revalation Space or Pushing Ice, or Liu Cixin's The Three Body Problem-series. I'd build something on the concepts of deep time, the vastness of the universe, the fermi paradox and uncaring, unfathomable forces.

Yes to this.

A key element for me is humans being tempted into taking risks with their own humanity as they encounter the true reality that's out there - whether because they want to become more powerful to fight off the outer darkness, or use its power for their own ends. Several of Lovecraft's stories end up with the character discovering they have been tainted by the Mythos in one way or another.

And it's possible for exceptional individuals successfully to use that power to drive the Mythos off for a little while at least - Lovecraft isn't as dark on the human level as is sometimes made out. OK the mythos will win in the end, but if we can fend it off for 1000 years, then that's still something. I think this part is important for gamability.

 

[AsenRG]

Me, I don't need other species out there for encountering alien forces. I just need to open FB.
Then I can crank that up to 20, because 11 is what I'm already seeing there...

I get my Lovecraftian cosmic horror kicks from cosmic/epic sci fi these days. Stories in the vein of Alistair Reynold's Revalation Space or Pushing Ice, or Liu Cixin's The Three Body Problem-series. I'd build something on the concepts of deep time, the vastness of the universe, the fermi paradox and uncaring, unfathomable forces.

So...standard Mythos, but in space?

Yes to this.

A key element for me is humans being tempted into taking risks with their own humanity as they encounter the true reality that's out there - whether because they want to become more powerful to fight off the outer darkness, or use its power for their own ends. Several of Lovecraft's stories end up with the character discovering they have been tainted by the Mythos in one way or another.

And it's possible for exceptional individuals successfully to use that power to drive the Mythos off for a little while at least - Lovecraft isn't as dark on the human level as is sometimes made out. OK the mythos will win in the end, but if we can fend it off for 1000 years, then that's still something. I think this part is important for gamability.

I feel that not enough is made of the statement that "with untold aeons even Death can die". So with enough aeons, even the Mythos can be destroyed.
And the Mythos has already existed untold aeons. So the question is, are we going to be the ones who find its unlikely weak spot?

 

[TristramEvans]

Eugh. The only thing more played out than the Cthulhu Mythos these days is people trying to insert a positive/heroic spin on it.

 

[AsenRG]

Eugh. The only thing more played out than the Cthulhu Mythos these days is people trying to insert a positive/heroic spin on it.

You're forgetting D&D-inspired fantasy...
And people "putting a heroic spin on it" began at the time of HPL, by nobody but REH himself!

 

[JAMUMU]

You're forgetting D&D-inspired fantasy...
And people "putting a heroic spin on it" began at the time of HPL, by nobody but REH himself!

Even HPL's stories tend heavily towards the continuation of the human race. Cthulhu goes back to sleep. The star people go back to the stars. Whatever. Only a few of them end in the madness of the narrator/main characters. And more than a few of them end on doors getting kicked in, dynamite getting tossed around and the liberal application of firearms.

 

[TristramEvans]

You're forgetting D&D-inspired fantasy...

I can't see how that couldn't possibly not fall under the description "played out"


....and did you just say REH was "D&D inspired"?

 

[Necrozius]

I think that part of the problem is the familiarity of these creatures. Even Cthulhu is too often depicted as way too understandable. Muscular human body with bat wings and octopus head. These things should be depicted as anything but familiar (if they're ever even seen).

Go back to the basics. I really like the Lovecraft story about the guy who creates a device that lets you SEE into another dimension, however, those bizarre creatures are then aware of YOU.

Essentially, weird beings that can't just be punched or blown up to be defeated. Ignore Hollywood and pulp adventure (except for the ones that "got it"). Draw inspiration from obscure folklore. Mix in themes of memory, regret, loss, despair, anger...

Some of the best monster movies were far more than just "monster hunts people down". Even the Descent had something going on with the main character. Jacob's Ladder too.

Sorry, that was kind of vague. My point is, ignore stupid insipid and shallow geek culture's impact on cosmic horror. These things shouldn't be whimsical memes and Chibi dolls.

Eg. My "perfect" Lovecraftian Mythos movie would have the tone and pacing of movies like Hereditary, The Lighthouse, Dune (Villeneuve), Se7en, Season 1 of True Detective etc... You get the picture. Ie. the tonal opposite of Joss Whedon and Kevin Smith.

 

[Telok]

First I hit up http://yog-blogsoth.blogspot.com/?m=1

Then I write game stats based on what I think/know the players &or PCs fear (not the mundane phobias & stuff).

Then I figure the thing's... personality is wrong... behavioral catastrophy graph & triggers, let's use that. Heavy into orange/green morality & not human style logic.

Then I figure out how the PCs can call it up or attract it's attention and put those in the game.

Last thing is occasionally drawing a card from the deck (ok I really just print 4/page & cut them out) and inserting something into the next session that could attract/call the thing.

Did I mention that PCs in my games often see burning books & grimories as good things?

Edit: Also, I have the Cthulhu chibi plushie.

 

[Agemegos]

Well, first step is identifying those feelings and themes. Most Lovecraft-derived works tend to not be very Lovecraftian at all, ironically enough.

Lovecraftian horror, or more generally "Cosmic Horror", centres on a vast, hostile cosmos where humankind is stripped of all it's ego-centric notions of being "the centre of the universe" or in some way, spiritually or theologically, "special".

Yes, and that was effective horror to people a hundred years ago, when the existence of an innumerable multitude not just of stars but of galaxies was a recent discovery of Science and a revelation to educated and thoughtful people. People nowadays have grown up knowing about that and have mostly adjusted to it. The unimaginable vastness of the Universe and the meaninglessness of life are old hat now. I think people have have also grown blasė what came next, too: about genocide and what it reveals about human nature. Young people these days aren’t even growing up with a morbid dread of nuclear annihilation, as we did when I was young.

Perhaps the root horror of today is being made redundant by rather dumb AI.

 

[Necrozius]

Edit: Also, I have the Cthulhu chibi plushie.

So do I. Aw man.

 

[TristramEvans]

I've used the charts from both Silent Legions and The Mythos Horror Creation System

Interesting...if I already have Silent Legions how much value does The Mythos Horror Creation System add?

 

[Kardinal Tabbe]

So...standard Mythos, but in space?

Yeah, pretty much

But on the other hand the inhibitors of Revelation Space and The Dark Forest strikes of Three Body are quite different from from Lovecraft's monsters. Even though they serve the same purpose as total threats.

My point was that you can create alternate setting with the same themes just by contemplating how intelligent species interact in the cosmos. Like the cosmic sociology from Three Body or the ROE from The Killing Star. No monster or magic needed.

 

[AsenRG]

Even HPL's stories tend heavily towards the continuation of the human race. Cthulhu goes back to sleep. The star people go back to the stars. Whatever. Only a few of them end in the madness of the narrator/main characters. And more than a few of them end on doors getting kicked in, dynamite getting tossed around and the liberal application of firearms.

I totally agree...and then HPL's penpal's main character, Conan, deals with demons that are quite obviously Mythos-inspired...

I can't see how that couldn't possibly not fall under the description "played out"

That was my point as well. You said "the only thing more played out". My counterpoint is: D&D-fantasy is way more played out...and still popular!

....and did you just say REH was "D&D inspired"?

No, of course!
That was a separate point, also aimed at the idea that putting a heroic spin on the Mythos is "played out", but from the other direction: putting a heroic spin was happening since the beginning!

 

[Stumpydave]

Maybe my OP stating we need to capture the same feel and themes was too constraining? As has been pointed out, the things that scare us now are very different to then.

I'd probably build my new mythos around the theme of infection. The great old ones manifest as diseases, CoVid or Cthulhu?
Splash in some body horror, the fear of losing control and being nothing but a host or vector to some malign intelligence.

I'm at work so I can't write loads but I think this would be a good place to start. It also stops people heroically punching Cthulhu. You might vaccinate against the latest strain but how long before it mutates?

 

[Kobayashi]

Perhaps the root horror of today is being made redundant by rather dumb AI.

This can be even more terrifying (found this on Facebook)

Though that was another point made in the Killing Star (spoilers !!!)

Two survivors are made prisoners by an alien. The alien is taken care by various small machines that scrub and clean its aquarium (because, of course, aliens are cephalopods). When the prisoners ask why the aliens are such meanies, their captor answers:

"I was just following orders"

Of course, the prisoners ask who gave the order. The alien points to the small machines. The entire human civilization was wiped out of existence because dumb fucks were now led by their vaccum cleaners. I was thinking that Nightfall games releasing a Terminator RPG was a bit strange considering how old the license is. Guess I was wrong.

 

[urbwar]

Interesting...if I already have Silent Legions how much value does The Mythos Horror Creation System add?

Quite a bit actually. The charts are actually good for even modern set cults, etc. For instance, I created a cult that is centered on a forum much like the pub, where people who are "outcasts" congregate. The people who run the forum conduct rituals online, which people participate in via live stream.

I find the charts in the MHCS adds more variety when used in conjunction with the ones in silent legions

 

[Torque2100]

In the not too distant future mankind receives a message from the stars. It's instructions and a meeting point.

We pour our energies into building a craft and sending out a ship to meet this visitor from afar. We were ready for anything. Beings of pure light, or intelligent starfish. They enter the decontamination chamber, take off their space suits to reveal.

Humans.

Not Star Trek aliens with rubber foreheads or pointy ears, just more Humans. Everywhere we go. Every inhabited world. Just more humans. All of whom are just as surprised as we are to learn this.

The implications of this would be frightening if this trope hadn't been beaten into the ground by 5 decades of cheap Sci-fi TV shows.

The game Observer also does Cosmic Horror really really well:
We receive a message form the stars. As in ACTUALLY from the stars themselves. Multiple stars are pulsing in a synchronized way. It turned out to be a signal that, when decoded was the Human genome and a rendevouz point in the orbit of Saturn. When the station gets there, the crew find... themselves. Their ship and themselves copied over and over and over again.

 

[Telok]

The game Observer also does Cosmic Horror really really well:
We receive a message form the stars. As in ACTUALLY from the stars themselves. Multiple stars are pulsing in a synchronized way. It turned out to be a signal that, when decoded was the Human genome and a rendevouz point in the orbit of Saturn. When the station gets there, the crew find... themselves. Their ship and themselves copied over and over and over again.

That would actually be really neat and exciting. Not sure why it would be filed under "horror".

Nah, I'm still voting to take themes of body horror & loss of self from the insect world and apply them on the human scale. The human level versions of digger wasps, that fungus that takes over ants, spiders the ants can't tell from another ant, and slime mold people where the someone discovers they're the "fruiting body" of a giant slime mold.

Slime molds are cool.

 

[Agemegos]

Nah, I'm still voting to take themes of body horror & loss of self from the insect world and apply them on the human scale. The human level versions of digger wasps, that fungus that takes over ants, spiders the ants can't tell from another ant, and slime mold people where the someone discovers they're the "fruiting body" of a giant slime mold.

Ooh! Parasites! Behaviour-altering parasites! Let me throw in Toxoplasma gondii, which makes rodent hosts bad at avoiding being eaten by cats, makes infected women more affectionate and makes infected men die in fights and traffic accidents. Or Sacculina carcini, the parasitic barnacle that invades a crab and replaces its gonads so that it broods and propagates barnacle eggs. Or Cymothoa exigua, the tongue-eating louse. Or ichneumon wasps, that plant their eggs in living hosts to eat them from the inside. Or Leucochloridium, the parasitic fluke that gives infected snails swollen pulsating eye-stalks that attract caterpillar-eating birds. Or eels found living in the hearts of sharks.

 

[Triumvir]

In the not too distant future mankind receives a message from the stars. It's instructions and a meeting point.

We pour our energies into building a craft and sending out a ship to meet this visitor from afar. We were ready for anything. Beings of pure light, or intelligent starfish. They enter the decontamination chamber, take off their space suits to reveal.

Humans.

Not Star Trek aliens with rubber foreheads or pointy ears, just more Humans. Everywhere we go. Every inhabited world. Just more humans. All of whom are just as surprised as we are to learn this.

The implications of this would be frightening if this trope hadn't been beaten into the ground by 5 decades of cheap Sci-fi TV shows.

It's also in Traveller although the horror aspects aren't played up. Earth's first Jump-capable ship reaches Barnard's Star and finds a mining colony of humans who are bemused/amused to see us. It's initially a mystery (parallel evolution or ancient-aliens?).

Iain Banks's "Algebraist" (non-Culture-SF) has a similar idea.

Spoiler

The fairly unpleasant galactic empire has a deliberate policy of kidnapping a few specimens from underdeveloped, pre-space-travel intelligent species, to assist their assimilation into civilisation when they eventually make it into space.

 

[Torque2100]

That would actually be really neat and exciting. Not sure why it would be filed under "horror".

Nah, I'm still voting to take themes of body horror & loss of self from the insect world and apply them on the human scale. The human level versions of digger wasps, that fungus that takes over ants, spiders the ants can't tell from another ant, and slime mold people where the someone discovers they're the "fruiting body" of a giant slime mold.

Slime molds are cool.

It's filed under horror because the human mind is not prepared to confront the horrible reality of the true nature of existence. Encountering just endless copies of themselves causes the Captain of the vessel to go insane and start murdering everyone else.

 

[AsenRG]

I just found a picture that fits this thread on so many levels...

Spoiler: Probably NSFW

https://scontent.fsof9-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/302446_514823458577985_1912956541_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=5l2QzW-8QvgQ7kNvgGjIr8t&_nc_ht=scontent.fsof9-1.fna&oh=00_AfCIFYO9syjZG0Q5oM5T9TJDdtBdyvs7HnB9D6U8DgzDEQ&oe=665CD27F

 

[Fenris-77]

Linky no worky.

 

[AsenRG]

Linky no worky.

Thank you, fixed it.

 

[TheSaint]

It's filed under horror because the human mind is not prepared to confront the horrible reality of the true nature of existence. Encountering just endless copies of themselves causes the Captain of the vessel to go insane and start murdering everyone else.

Charlie Kaufman did it.

 

[Nakana]

I’d use the Goetia from the Lesser Key of Solomon for inspiration. 72 demons primed and ready to go, just modify/change names to be safe… I’m not trying to conjure up actual evil.

 

[Telok]

I’d use the Goetia from the Lesser Key of Solomon for inspiration. 72 demons primed and ready to go, just modify/change names to be safe… I’m not trying to conjure up actual evil.

I've done that. They make up the daemon lords of my setting. Its possible to summon them by accident if you're incompetent enough. That's pretty much instant death. But there's other ways to meet & attract them. Then, if you make the "don't lose your shit" roll and are amusing or powerful enough, they'll make an offer.

Last campaign the PCs did so with one... Buer I think. This campaign he's a doom clock that's been stealing spaceships & farming tarrasques as ammo for his giant space cathedral that's soon to go on a crusade to bring beauty, art, and culture to the universe.

There's a guy who did pretty decent drawings of all of them and other monstrosities at yog-blogsoth.blogspot.com

 

[Rob Necronomicon]

This is a very interesting concept for a thread. But I'll have to ponder on it...

 

[Rogerdee]

I loved the Hyperion book series which became an organics vs inorganic cosmic centric theme, and even wrote some stuff based upon that.

I also think in recent years, Kult, has certainly done something with its mythos with the Sephiroth beings. What struck me was the similarity between a couple of their gods, and those seen in 2000AD Canon Fodder story which I loved.

 

[lategamer]

Let's say some big entertainment conglomerate, some bunch of soulless Hollywood corpo-rats pull a fast one and get Lovecraft and associated authors work stripped from the public domain.
How would you go about creating an alternative setting that captures the same feel and themes?

I work my Lovecraft from the dude himself and avoid all other authors because their lack of sharing is annoying to me

But say it's all gone.

OK.

One of the scary things in the Excession universe is Volitive Matter. Matter that has consciousness. Our brains have it but this is not limited to organic brain matter.

The Multiverse theory is scary too. The idea that everything is expanding all the time and we (the galaxy) are only held together by gravity and molecular forces. Everything is trying to separate, become more remote.