Is there an SRD (in the way the D&D3E had a foundational SRD) for Pathfinder 2nd Edition?

[Korgoth]

Is there an SRD for the Pathfinder 2nd edition rules available anywhere online (or even offline/dead tree)?

I know there is the excellent website The Archives of Nethys but is the content on the Archive SRD'able? That is can I use ala cut and paste word for word text directly from The Archives of Nethys for use in my own Pathfinder 2E derived ruleset?

I get the impression that no I cannot though I am confused hence me asking the RPGPub Hive mind for feedback. I also know no one can give me 'legal' advice but even if I'm in the 'ballpark' of a correct answer I'll be happy.


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[KrakaJak]

License – PF2 SRD

That page lists what books are open gaming for PF2e. The site contains the text included verbatim.

 

[pawsplay]

Are you looking for OGL and ORC content?

 

[Jacob Rodgers]

Is there an SRD for the Pathfinder 2nd edition rules available anywhere online (or even offline/dead tree)?

I know there is the excellent website The Archives of Nethys but is the content on the Archive SRD'able? That is can I use ala cut and paste word for word text directly from The Archives of Nethys for use in my own Pathfinder 2E derived ruleset?

I get the impression that no I cannot though I am confused hence me asking the RPGPub Hive mind for feedback. I also know no one can give me 'legal' advice but even if I'm in the 'ballpark' of a correct answer I'll be happy.


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It's my understanding that AoN is all open OGL/ORC, but it seems nearly impossible to get any clarity on what is/is not available for a PF2 ruleset, or how to use it.

A downloadable PDF would set my mind at ease, it even a "here is the link to the license, everything on this site can be used with this license" for AoN seems hard to find.

I applied for the Pathfinder Compatibility License before Remaster and after and even posted on their forums. No response. If they want folks jumping on board, they sure are making it hard.

 

[Korgoth]

Are you looking for OGL and ORC content?

Either/Or I guess.

I'm literally wondering what text that is available online (be it in a SRD PDF or a Website) that i can copy/paste and use verbatum in my own RPG Pastiche of a PF2E ruleset.

I know that rules engines can't be copywriten, only their presentation. So of course I'm free to use the mechanics of PF2E, I just need to re-write the rules presentation if I want to make my own derivative ruleset.

But that would be allot of work of course, reinventing the wheel so to speak. So, if there is existing and already written text that once can freely copy & paste to form the foundation of their own text that would be great.

In my understanding, and it of course may be incorrect hence me asking for (not legal) advice here, that is what an SRD document for an OGL/ORC based rpg is. It's a core set of text that anyone can use verbatim in their own RPG works.

P.S.

I don't want to 'steal' anyone else's hard work, but at the same time if there is a bunch of pre-written text/rules being offered for anyone to use why not use that as a starting point for ones own work.



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[Korgoth]

It's my understanding that AoN is all open OGL/ORC, but it seems nearly impossible to get any clarity on what is/is not available for a PF2 ruleset, or how to use it.

A downloadable PDF would set my mind at ease, it even a "here is the link to the license, everything on this site can be used with this license" for AoN seems hard to find.

I applied for the Pathfinder Compatibility License before Remaster and after and even posted on their forums. No response. If they want folks jumping on board, they sure are making it hard.

Your experience has been my experience as well. I get the 'feeling' that AoN is all OGL content in the style of the old D&D3E SRD/OGL was, but I can't find any concrete statements online that would make me feel comfortable using that text verbatim in my own RPG work.

Perhaps I'll just have to put in the hard, multi-year work of creating a 'Cepheus Engine' type SRD for a PD2E pastiche after all. If anything that would be the only way to be 100% sure of it being legally safe and shareable.

I could of course post the question on the official Paizo forums or even the Pathfinder Subreddit and I may do that, but I'm also expecting fanboy's to get huffy and upset at the idea of someone wanting to make a Pastiche Open Source version of the rules when one can just buy the actual rules, which I already have done in dead tree and pdf form as I really do like the rules engine. It's my favourite D&D/d20 rules implementation.

It's the presentation of the rules that I dislike. I dislike the art and layout so much it pains me to look at the books, lol. I guess I'm an odd ball on this as most people would just ignore the art and presentation and focus on the rules, but I have a hard time doing that. It's like the 'Rolemaster Unified is to ugly for this earth' thread here on the pub. I just can't stand the modern presentation of the rules and dream of an old school B&W art presentation of the ruleset. Even a plain no art and text book like formatting of the rules I'd be happy with.


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[sharps54]

Wasn’t this part of the promise of ORC? Or has Paizo conveniently not released any of their work under the ORC license?

 

[Korgoth]

Wasn’t this part of the promise of ORC? Or has Paizo conveniently not released any of their work under the ORC license?

I 'think' they have, but I'm only 90% sure of it. And I still don't know/understand what text I can use verbatim and which I can't, be it from the official PDF's or a website like the Archives of Nethys.

I understand I can't use say 'Golarion' or 'Pathfinder Society' or some setting specific villains name, or I 'think' say my work is 'Pathfinder 2nd Edition Compatible', you have to say 'Based upon and compatible with the worlds second most popular Fantasy Role Playing Game' but c'est la rpg.


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[sharps54]

I 'think' they have, but I'm only 90% sure of it. And I still don't know/understand what text I can use verbatim and which I can't, be it from the official PDF's or a website like the Archives of Nethys.

I understand I can't use say 'Golarion' or 'Pathfinder Society' or some setting specific villains name, or I 'think' say my work is 'Pathfinder 2nd Edition Compatible', you have to say 'Based upon and compatible with the worlds second most popular Fantasy Role Playing Game' but c'est la rpg.


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if it doesn’t explicitly say it is covered under the ORC license, like all the OGL things had, I would not take the chance.

 

[pawsplay]

Wasn’t this part of the promise of ORC? Or has Paizo conveniently not released any of their work under the ORC license?

Essentially 100% of the Pathfinder 2e rules are available under the ORC. The notice is located in the back of the books. You could, if you wanted, release your own copy of PF2ER today, with different art, and swapping in a different set of deities and place names, and writing your own text for the non-rules portion of the book.

So, in regards to the original query, the big problem with AON is that it mixes OGL and ORC materials without much guidance. There are also proper nouns, but you can simply swap those out. Another issue, which no one seems to care about but me, is that AON is technically in breach of the OGL because it requires you to conspicuously declare what is and isn't OGC.

So, if you wanted to make a PF2E variant of some kind, my non-lawyerly advice would be to read up on the ORC, join the ORC Discord, and use the PF2ER books as your textual source.

 

[sharps54]

Essentially 100% of the Pathfinder 2e rules are available under the ORC. The notice is located in the back of the books. You could, if you wanted, release your own copy of PF2ER today, with different art, and swapping in a different set of deities and place names, and writing your own text for the non-rules portion of the book.

So, in regards to the original query, the big problem with AON is that it mixes OGL and ORC materials without much guidance. There are also proper nouns, but you can simply swap those out. Another issue, which no one seems to care about but me, is that AON is technically in breach of the OGL because it requires you to conspicuously declare what is and isn't OGC.

So, if you wanted to make a PF2E variant of some kind, my non-lawyerly advice would be to read up on the ORC, join the ORC Discord, and use the PF2ER books as your textual source.

So for the lazy man the best option is get the Paizo books in pdf so you can copy and paste the relevant sections?

 

[pawsplay]

Well, I'm lazy, and it sounds like a plan to me.

 

[sharps54]

Well, I'm lazy, and it sounds like a plan to me.

I didn’t mean anything negative by that, I was just thinking about the easiest way for the OP to accomplish their goal. Lazy may not have been the right word…

 

[Bunch]

I didn’t mean anything negative by that, I was just thinking about the easiest way for the OP to accomplish their goal. Lazy may not have been the right word…

My engineering instructors always encouraged us to be lazy. If someone already solved the problem go see if that works for your problem and use it. Lots of real world energy has gone into supporting solved problems so take advantage of it. Do new because you have to. Not because it's new.

 

[robertsconley]

Is there an SRD for the Pathfinder 2nd edition rules available anywhere online (or even offline/dead tree)?

I know there is the excellent website The Archives of Nethys but is the content on the Archive SRD'able? That is can I use ala cut and paste word for word text directly from The Archives of Nethys for use in my own Pathfinder 2E derived ruleset?

The text of the Archives of Nethys are licensed under the OGL.

Essentially 100% of the Pathfinder 2e rules are available under the ORC. The notice is located in the back of the books. You could, if you wanted, release your own copy of PF2ER today, with different art, and swapping in a different set of deities and place names, and writing your own text for the non-rules portion of the book.

Yup, from page 463 of the Pathfinder Player Core

So, in regards to the original query, the big problem with AON is that it mixes OGL and ORC materials without much guidance. There are also proper nouns, but you can simply swap those out. Another issue, which no one seems to care about but me, is that AON is technically in breach of the OGL because it requires you to conspicuously declare what is and isn't OGC.

Yeah, I looked at their site and was surprised at how sloppy their attribution was. I'm pretty disappointed, as the older SRD site was easier to follow.

So, if you wanted to make a PF2E variant of some kind, my non-lawyerly advice would be to read up on the ORC, join the ORC Discord, and use the PF2ER books as your textual source.

I concur with this. Korgoth The basic gist of ORC is that all game mechanics are open content. There is no Product Identity (or what ORC calls Reserved Material) when it comes to mechanics. So keep that in mind when you read up on stuff.

 

[robertsconley]

So for the lazy man the best option is get the Paizo books in pdf so you can copy and paste the relevant sections?

Yes the same advice would apply to the new Basic Roleplaying by Chaosium as well as well as the two Mythras Imperative titles by Design Mechanism.

 

[pawsplay]

I didn’t mean anything negative by that, I was just thinking about the easiest way for the OP to accomplish their goal. Lazy may not have been the right word…

My background is in computer science. Laziness is one of the Seven Heavenly Virtues, along with Parsimony and Saving RAM.

 

[Jacob Rodgers]

The text of the Archives of Nethys are licensed under the OGL.

Is that clearly indicated anywhere? Is there a known good way to attribute it?

I would really like a confident way to move forward, the way the OGL SRD 5.1 and CC SRD 5.1 give me "put these things in your product, and you have fulfilled your legal obligations as long as you follow the attached rules".

I don't want to use the Lost Omens setting at all. I just want to give folks who want to use PF2 to play in my setting the means to do so.

 

[Spellslinging Sellsword]

Per their website, there are two versions, one OGL and one ORC.

AoN can now be viewed in one of two modes - "Remastered" (the default) or "Legacy". To change your preference, simply open Shelyn's Corner (icon in the top-right of the site) and adjust the setting there. Preferring "Remastered" content means you want to see the rules as presented in Player Core, GM Core, and the other upcoming Remastered products like Monster Core. Preferring "Legacy" content means you want to see the rules as presented in the Core Rulebook, Gamemastery Guide, Bestiary, etc. The site will react according to this preference, directing you to your preferred rules even if you search or access something from the other version.

 

[robertsconley]

Per their website, there are two versions, one OGL and one ORC.

The problem is that I don't see the required ORC attribution when it is in remastered mode. Therein lies

Is that clearly indicated anywhere?

Yes the OGL license is here.

Is there a known good way to attribute it?

Yes, you have to copy the entirety of Section 15 and append the title of your own work at the end. And yes I am not joking about the length

Spoiler

The section 15 situation for the OGL with AoN is ridiculous in my opinion.

I would really like a confident way to move forward, the way the OGL SRD 5.1 and CC SRD 5.1 give me "put these things in your product, and you have fulfilled your legal obligations as long as you follow the attached rules".

I don't want to use the Lost Omens setting at all. I just want to give folks who want to use PF2 to play in my setting the means to do so.

I am pretty up on various open content projects. In my opinion for whatever reason the Pathfinder 2e remastered situation is a mess logistically. Legally the best option is to buy the Player Core and use the ORC license. Just avoid the use of anything they declare as reserve content. Which in practice means do a edit of the text of the copy to eliminate any proper nouns from their setting like gods and the like.

 

[pawsplay]

Attempting to use the Archives as a reference is inadvisable.

• Searching for "Magic Missile" will return the link for "Force Barrage"
• Going to the link for "Magic Missile" will auto-redirect you to the "Force Barrage" version
• On pages like these, a link backwards to the Legacy version will be present - these links add in a parameter to the URL that prevents the redirect, so at your choosing you can view what the rule looks like in the other version.
• Content that is not hybrid (rules which existed in Legacy that have not yet been converted to Remaster, or new rules in Remaster that did not have direct Legacy counterparts) will be visible no matter which setting you choose. We will have a warning banner over rules that come from a different version, as some mechanics may work differently between versions, but otherwise the rules will be accessible.
• Previews will also respond to your preference. In this example, whether you hover over a link to the legacy Magic Missile or the remaster Force Barrage, your preview will show Force Barrage.

So, you are relying on them to categorize things properly, and you are at a constant risk of accessing content from the wrong license. Also, as far as I can tell, the Archives itself is not under the ORC, but a commercial license from Paizo. I assume the content is the same, but since it isn't explicitly licensed, I wouldn't rely on it the contents being exactly the same, or all content being licensed as one might guess.

Also, you should not use the Archives for OGL material. There is no declaration of what is open game content and what is PI. I pointed out that issue to the archives in the Discord, and there reply was, "Look! The Section 15 is right there. All our declarations are in order." But that's not the same thing.

I call your attention to Section 8:

8. Identification: If you distribute Open Game Content You must clearly indicate which portions of the work that you are distributing are Open Game Content.

I have never found any section of the website which fulfills this requirement. Based on my communications in the Discord, I do not think it exists. While, in my non-lawyerly opinion, it looks like downstream users would not be directly, immediately liable for infringement, I would never want to publish anything based on what I know to be a substantially defective use of the license, nor would I want to be in the position of possibly receiving a takedown notice.

Unless there is something going on behind the scenes I don't understand, any given Monday, WotC could issue the Archives a notice they are in violation of Section 8, which will immediately start a 30 day timer to correct the breach.