What’s a critically acclaimed RPG you don’t like?

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Voros said:
I'd suggest just getting the nicely designed OSRish Mausritter instead.
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That looks cute and fun.
I think the biggest problems with Mouse Guard was the poor organization and making things more complicated than they had to be. I had to jump around though the book to make a character.
 
Endless Flight said:
What benefit do I really get out of 2d20 character generation that takes an hour when you can create a character in a game like D6 (which is better than 2d20 anyway) in about ten minutes max?
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Given your feelings on d6 being superior, none:shade:!
 
Stan said:
That looks cute and fun.
I think the biggest problems with Mouse Guard was the poor organization and making things more complicated than they had to be. I had to jump around though the book to make a character.
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I felt the turn structure was a bigger issue. Especially after getting a taste for it in Torchbearer:shade:.

To clarify - I backed the TorchBearer KS in order to see whether I like Luke Crane's games enough to order the physical book (back then he wasn't doing PDFs, maybe he still isn't, but I haven't checked after trying TorchBearer). Well, it did serve its purpose:grin:!
It's just that the answer was a "hard pass in the future".
 
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For me, it’s all of the ORE games (Godlike, Wild Talents, Reign). System is way too fiddly and seriously detracts from play rather than adding anything resembling fun.

I’m also in the “PbtA just doesn’t do it for me” camp. I see how it should work, but it just...doesn’t.
 
Andrew J. Luther said:
For me, it’s all of the ORE games (Godlike, Wild Talents, Reign). System is way too fiddly and seriously detracts from play rather than adding anything resembling fun.
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...I've never been able to parse that criticism, I have to admit. It's just a system with degrees of success in both speed and quality, what's too fiddly?
 
Bunch said:
White Wolf. No good reason really it just never grabbed me in the slightest.
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Same. I have never liked any edition of World of Darkness. Any game, any edition, doesn't matter I've just never liked any of them. What specifically turns me off is monsters as player characters. This is a concept that has never sat right with me. IMHO, monsters should be enemies, lurking threats, obstacles to be overcome. Letting players play vampires for example is a road that leads almost invariably to juvenile power fantasy. Not to mention the rather squicky subtext that Vampires have carried for a long time: they represent fear of sexual predators.

I prefer Kult, Call of Cthulhu or The Invisible College for my modern occult conspiracy games. Give me ordinary people overcoming otherworldly horrors with their wits and skills.
 
AsenRG said:
...I've never been able to parse that criticism, I have to admit. It's just a system with degrees of success in both speed and quality, what's too fiddly?
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To be honest, I haven’t played that system since 2007 (the year Reign came out), and I got rid of the book a long time ago, so I can’t even go back and look). And Godlike and Wild Talents were even before that. I both ran and played Reign and WT, and none of the people in my group thought it was remotely worth the effort to stick with it.

Sorry, but I can’t really give you specifics from that far back - I’ve played a hell of a lot of games in the last 14 years!
 
Andrew J. Luther said:
To be honest, I haven’t played that system since 2007 (the year Reign came out), and I got rid of the book a long time ago, so I can’t even go back and look). And Godlike and Wild Talents were even before that. I both ran and played Reign and WT, and none of the people in my group thought it was remotely worth the effort to stick with it.

Sorry, but I can’t really give you specifics from that far back - I’ve played a hell of a lot of games in the last 14 years!
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Fair enough:thumbsup:.
 
Torque2100 said:
Same. I have never liked any edition of World of Darkness. Any game, any edition, doesn't matter I've just never liked any of them. What specifically turns me off is monsters as player characters. This is a concept that has never sat right with me. IMHO, monsters should be enemies, lurking threats, obstacles to be overcome. Letting players play vampires for example is a road that leads almost invariably to juvenile power fantasy. Not to mention the rather squicky subtext that Vampires have carried for a long time: they represent fear of sexual predators.

I prefer Kult, Call of Cthulhu or The Invisible College for my modern occult conspiracy games. Give me ordinary people overcoming otherworldly horrors with their wits and skills.
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I share your preference for ordinary people over monsters, but let's just say vampires are fear of sickness and transgressive behaviour in the original myths:thumbsup:. Sexual predators are a later addition.

But admittedly, my first reaction to being offered to play Vampire was "what, play the things I killed last week and get killed by an actual hero, doesn't really sound fun":grin:!
 
AsenRG said:
...I've never been able to parse that criticism, I have to admit. It's just a system with degrees of success in both speed and quality, what's too fiddly?
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I always felt like there was too much handwaving in terms of building powers, and an agreement needed to be hammered out between players so uber-munckinism didn’t occur; I prefer games that are more limited in that aspect, so players don’t have to spend time working that out.

My brain just shuts down when it comes to the die mechanics. I can’t explain it better than that.
 
Torque2100 said:
Same. I have never liked any edition of World of Darkness. Any game, any edition, doesn't matter I've just never liked any of them. What specifically turns me off is monsters as player characters. This is a concept that has never sat right with me. IMHO, monsters should be enemies, lurking threats, obstacles to be overcome. Letting players play vampires for example is a road that leads almost invariably to juvenile power fantasy. Not to mention the rather squicky subtext that Vampires have carried for a long time: they represent fear of sexual predators.
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Or, in the case of Twilight fans, morbid fascination.

In a lot of ways I found the edgelordy fanboys more offputting than the material. While Street Fighter is by far my favourite White Wolf game, I've also played VTM and Werewolf. The underlying concepts could be made to work and it's possible to play characters in the genres who aren't sociopaths, but the hard part was finding groups of players who weren't twats. To give them their due, I think White Wolf did a lot to erase the perception of RPG's as being intrinsically uncool and perhaps D&D wouldn't be where it is today without them.
 
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Ralph Dula said:
I always felt like there was too much handwaving in terms of building powers, and an agreement needed to be hammered out between players so uber-munckinism didn’t occur; I prefer games that are more limited in that aspect, so players don’t have to spend time working that out.
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Have you looked at StarORE? It's got all the powers pre-written already...and it's a whole 13 pages long:shade:.

Ralph Dula said:
My brain just shuts down when it comes to the die mechanics. I can’t explain it better than that.
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I've encountered that...but then I explained it using the example of two boxers fighting. It went without an issue.
 
In reference to Vampires representing fear of sexual predators, that is largely a Victorian thing that came about from Carmilla and Dracula. However, this is the version that is most familiar to modern audiences and the one that your players are going to draw from

It is true that earlier Vampire legends were about fear of disease, but as we started to understand what disease actually is and what causes it, the mythology evolved.

White Wolf certainly did not help matters by making their Vampires so incredibly, utterly OP that Vampire lends itself to such a toxic combination of juvenile power fantasy and morbid fascination.
 
Nobby-W said:
In a lot of ways I found the edgelordy fanboys more offputting than the material. While Street Fighter is by far my favourite White Wolf game, I've also played VTM and Werewolf. The underlying concepts could be made to work and it's possible to play characters in the genres who aren't sociopaths, but the hard part was finding groups of players who weren't twats. To give them their due, I think White Wolf did a lot to erase the perception of RPG's as being intrinsically uncool and perhaps D&D wouldn't be where it is today without them.
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That is the rub. Finding players who: 1. Like White Wolf. 2. Are interested in playing a Vampire and 3. Aren't insufferable Edgelords is basically impossible.
 
Ralph Dula said:
I always felt like there was too much handwaving in terms of building powers, and an agreement needed to be hammered out between players so uber-munckinism didn’t occur; I prefer games that are more limited in that aspect, so players don’t have to spend time working that out.
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I'd say that is a fair criticism of the superpower construction rules in Godlike and Wild Talents, but it doesn't apply to Reign. You have more standard, concrete character abilities in Reign.
 
Torque2100 said:
In reference to Vampires representing fear of sexual predators, that is largely a Victorian thing that came about from Carmilla and Dracula. However, this is the version that is most familiar to modern audiences and the one that your players are going to draw from

It is true that earlier Vampire legends were about fear of disease, but as we started to understand what disease actually is and what causes it, the mythology evolved.
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Well, except I'm from one of the countries where the Vampire myth originates from. I can easily say to my players "those are folkloric vampires", and everybody would know why meeting them is a 1/1d8 Sanity test:devil:.
 
Torque2100 said:
That is the rub. Finding players who: 1. Like White Wolf. 2. Are interested in playing a Vampire and 3. Aren't insufferable Edgelords is basically impossible.
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I have played and run Vampire multiple times. Neither I or any of the people I played with, were insufferable Edgelords. So it's not impossible.

The only time I met an insufferable Vampire player, was when trying larping. It was the second time I was there. This guy walked up to me and said hello. Then he asked my opinon on the game. I answered that it was decent, but I would prefer the tabletop version. He when went on a huge tirade, about how inferior the tabletop version was to larping.
When he was done, I just said. Yeah whatever, I'm just here for the chicks, and walked away.
The rest of the players were cool though.
 
The Mad Hatter said:
I have played and run Vampire multiple times. Neither I or any of the people I played with, were insufferable Edgelords. So it's not impossible.

The only time I met an insufferable Vampire player, was when trying larping. It was the second time I was there. This guy walked up to me and said hello. Then he asked my opinon on the game. I answered that it was decent, but I would prefer the tabletop version. He when went on a huge tirade, about how inferior the tabletop version was to larping.
When he was done, I just said. Yeah whatever, I'm just here for the chicks, and walked away.
The rest of the players were cool though.
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I'm glad you were able to find good players. I never was.
 
FATE: Can't wrap my head around it, and I like FUDGE.
PbtA: Blah.
D&D 3 and onwards: I see feats and my eyes immediately glaze over. Also the HD going on forever.
 
Baulderstone said:
I'd say that is a fair criticism of the superpower construction rules in Godlike and Wild Talents, but it doesn't apply to Reign. You have more standard, concrete character abilities in Reign.
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I’m afraid I only picked up Godlike and Wild Talents.
 
White Wolf games have always fascinated me with their subject matter, but I can’t get past the writers’ styles.

Nobilis straight up turned me off within five pages, as have every other game written by this author.
 
Dropbear said:
Nobilis straight up turned me off within five pages, as have every other game written by this author.
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Yeah. "Bergstromancy" is a thing. Either you get where she's going and it's intuitive, or trying to understand how to actually play her games is like beating your head against a wall. I'm the first, but almost all of my play group when I tried to run it were the latter.
 
I had the first edition of Nobilis and quite liked it, but found the second edition a bloated monster. I found Bergstrom's Fair Folk supplement for Exalted, which I grabbed just because I like fairy-themed games in general, exceptionally and unnecessarily obtuse.
 
ScytheSong said:
Yeah. "Bergstromancy" is a thing. Either you get where she's going and it's intuitive, or trying to understand how to actually play her games is like beating your head against a wall. I'm the first, but almost all of my play group when I tried to run it were the latter.
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I feel like I understood it fine, just like some of the people I have dated I wasn’t all that into them after first glance.
 
Dropbear said:
I feel like I understood it fine, just like some of the people I have dated I wasn’t all that into them after first glance.
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That happens, too. One of my players was that way -- she got what Nobilis was trying to do, and she understood the mechanics, but she just didn't want to play in that game.
 
Torque2100 said:
Give me ordinary people overcoming otherworldly horrors with their wits and skills.
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What about Hunter: The Vigil... or the basic NWOD 'World of Darkness' core, which was ordinary humans getting caught up in weirdness/horror?
 
Andrew J. Luther said:
To be honest, I haven’t played that system since 2007 (the year Reign came out), and I got rid of the book a long time ago, so I can’t even go back and look). And Godlike and Wild Talents were even before that. I both ran and played Reign and WT, and none of the people in my group thought it was remotely worth the effort to stick with it.

Sorry, but I can’t really give you specifics from that far back - I’ve played a hell of a lot of games in the last 14 years!
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Pretty much, plus their math works in a clean room, it doesn't work at an actual table. Something I've learned both with Godlike and my own Hearts & Souls2E
 
AsenRG said:
I share your preference for ordinary people over monsters, but let's just say vampires are fear of sickness and transgressive behaviour in the original myths:thumbsup:. Sexual predators are a later addition.

But admittedly, my first reaction to being offered to play Vampire was "what, play the things I killed last week and get killed by an actual hero, doesn't really sound fun":grin:!
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Playing monsters in rpgs is nothing new though, Ken St. Andre's Monsters! Monsters! came out in 1976.
 
AsenRG said:
Have you looked at StarORE? It's got all the powers pre-written already...and it's a whole 13 pages long:shade:.


I've encountered that...but then I explained it using the example of two boxers fighting. It went without an issue.
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I think it's the fact that the use of the system and the math involved are so unlike any other game. I love it, but am hit or miss on getting others to play it for extended periods of time.
 
AsenRG said:
...I've never been able to parse that criticism, I have to admit. It's just a system with degrees of success in both speed and quality, what's too fiddly?
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To do well (and I GM ORE a lot) it does require a level of interpretation that isn't for everyone.
 
AsenRG said:
I share your preference for ordinary people over monsters, but let's just say vampires are fear of sickness and transgressive behaviour in the original myths:thumbsup:. Sexual predators are a later addition.

But admittedly, my first reaction to being offered to play Vampire was "what, play the things I killed last week and get killed by an actual hero, doesn't really sound fun":grin:!
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My group's reaction to VtM and WtA was "In what way is this superior to playing vampires and werethings in Runequest or Chivalry & Sorcery?" Nobody had a positive answer, and as the negatives were considerable as far as we were concerned (mainly in that WW's game engine absolutely sucked), that was the end of the matter.
 
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