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I feel there wouldn't be any controversy over putting gunpower rules in the core if it wasn't for the Orwellian statement that every setting has always had them. I'm not sure if it is ignorance, trolling, or if they are relying on the popular internet marketing technique where you put a clearly false statement in something in order to get higher engagement online as people call you out on it. If it is the latter, it is clearly working.
 
I feel there wouldn't be any controversy over putting gunpower rules in the core if it wasn't for the Orwellian statement that every setting has always had them. I'm not sure if it is ignorance, trolling, or if they are relying on the popular internet marketing technique where you put a clearly false statement in something in order to get higher engagement online as people call you out on it. If it is the latter, it is clearly working.
This. I don’t see any problem with gunpowder at all. Plenty of D&D settings and systems, as well as competitor‘s settings and systems have had them. Hell, leave out gunpowder if you want and call them Dwarven spring bows. Either way, I don’t care. Just don’t justify it through easily verifiable falsehoods.
 
Let me guess, they’re eliminating the thought of Human/Orc and Human/Elf sex, but…
Human/Demon
Human/Devil
Human/Dragon
Human/Angel
Human/Elemental
…will all still be on the table I assume to keep the Freakshow intact?
 
Let me guess, they’re eliminating the thought of Human/Orc and Human/Elf sex, but…
Human/Demon
Human/Devil
Human/Dragon
Human/Angel
Human/Elemental
…will all still be on the table I assume to keep the Freakshow intact?

No.

Human/Angels will be replaced by a random furry race, cuz angels a yucky. :sick:

The rest is just as you said. :thumbsup:
 
Gunpowder, properly priced and with the inherent pre-corning issues, isn't a problem in D&D. You're basically looking at a clunky Necklace of Fireballs. Not an issue.

It's always the rules for small arms that always hose stuff. The players will want to strap 6 guns to one trigger, load small silver coins for werewolves, make an area blast blunderbuss, and other stuff that people did do and found to work. If you overprice or restrict access then you've made them high level only or put "pirate captain with a brace of pistols" as wearing more loot than a chest of gold and a magic weapon. Those will warp gameplay in unexpected ways for the novice GMs (not that the D&D "economy" is anything other than a massive "ignore the guy behind the curtain" anyways).

But make it cheap enough for lower level characters or to not outprice magic weapons and the players will go all in on grenades and those multi-barrel conglomerations (which at least it offsets the barbarians' shit ranged attack options & attack bonus by being massive damage). Which will, again, introduce more jank into the game that novice GMs likely won't be prepated for.

It can all be covered of course, but thats at least two to four pages just on "how to gunpowder" in the DMG and some text in the PH to ask players not to go nuts. All assuming of course that the don't screw up and go all "rulings not rules" and don't bother telling GMs wtf is happening when players are all going mass grenade one shotting the dragons.
 
Are they going to be matchlock, wheellock, or flintlock? Matchlock if they're going for period-feel, obviously, but you never know.
 
I read a lot of that press conference transcript on enWorld and I gotta say…


What parts are you objecting to, and why?
Let me guess, they’re eliminating the thought of Human/Orc and Human/Elf sex, but…
Human/Demon
Human/Devil
Human/Dragon
Human/Angel
Human/Elemental
…will all still be on the table I assume to keep the Freakshow intact?
They're not eliminating anything, but other than specific crosses that are distinct and consistent, the half-(whatever) rules are now "Pick one, RP any physical traits from the other side that you want".
 
Are they going to be matchlock, wheellock, or flintlock? Matchlock if they're going for period-feel, obviously, but you never know.
From running Warhammer, I feel matchlock is the best option for balancing it against other weapons, but I don't know if Hasbro will want to present their players with anything they can't spam every round.
 
I feel there wouldn't be any controversy over putting gunpower rules in the core if it wasn't for the Orwellian statement that every setting has always had them. I'm not sure if it is ignorance, trolling, or if they are relying on the popular internet marketing technique where you put a clearly false statement in something in order to get higher engagement online as people call you out on it. If it is the latter, it is clearly working.

It was probably just a reference to the fact that there have been such rules in most editions of the game. The use of “settings” instead of “editions” seems to be the main error.

I feel like people are being a bit pedantic about it.
 
All this hullabaloo over them including “musket” and “pistol” in the corebook seems overblown to me.

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Well that’s also overblown imo. So many posts about a throwaway line at a PR conference is borderline questionable.
Probably. Given that Hasbro is entirely responsible for turning what were hardcore fans last year into people ready to jump on any mistake, I have no real sympathy.
 
Well that’s also overblown imo. So many posts about a throwaway line at a PR conference is borderline questionable.
Why are there so many posts? One post proving the falsehood is enough. Oh yeah, it’s because all the people who “don’t care” have to tell everyone else they care too much. :devil:
 
Why are there so many posts? One post proving the falsehood is enough. Oh yeah, it’s because all the people who “don’t care” have to tell everyone else they care too much. :devil:
Actually I'm looking at it and seeing "musket = shorter range heavy crossbow with +1 damage" that costs 1/2 to 3/4 what a basic magic weapon does and ten times as much as the low end healing poition, while wondering what the grenades and bombs will look like.
 
The most important thing about firearms, which 5.5e will certainly get wrong, is that there needs to be a non-zero possibility of the gun exploding in your face every time you pull the trigger.

Also visual impairment from the smoke being generated, particularly if multiple shots are fired, and especially if used in confined quarters (like a dungeon)

Not to mention hearing loss if you're not careful.

That's what makes antimatter rifles infinitely preferable!

Well, less hassle for the GM if it explodes, since you don't really need to determine damage, just the size of the blast radius...
 
I for one am glad that they’re removing half elves because that was the only race I would pick god damn it. Now I can be more varied.
Right. My first rule in reaction to AD&D was no half-elves, we are strictly sticking to Moldvey races. But then those Dragonlance novels came out and everybody was suddenly wanting to roll up a Tanis Half-Elven variant. "Damn you Weis and Hickman!"
 
The biggest thing gun powder introduces IMO isn't guns, but opportunity for players to blow things up. In my experience, if gun powder is present, players will try to use it to blow up the bad guys headquarters a good chunk of the time (this is how Ivan Dilisnya bit it in one of my Ravenloft campaigns---gunpowder and a fireball down the chimney---and in my wuxia campaigns, where gunpowder is pretty common, I've had players use them to take out fleets of ships. Obviously depends on how 'high action movie' you are going for that logic to work.
Which makes me think of Steven Erikson's Malazan books and his sappers who were always were amusing to read about. You had explosive undermining walls, mining streets etc. Good stuff.

 
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Well that’s also overblown imo. So many posts about a throwaway line at a PR conference is borderline questionable.
Maybe there would be less posts if people didn't keep trying to turn things into a meta-discussion about why people supposedly care so much.

I mean once you start insinutating that people have ulterior motives or are over-invested than of course the conversation becomes more emotionally charged then is otherwise justifed - self-fulfillling prophecy that.
 
I really object to what Wizards is going to end up doing to D&D and this influencer gathering didn’t do anything to change my perception.

In a roundabout way, I kind of regret that the OGL debacle failed so totally.

There’s part of me that wishes WOTC was able to cancel the OGL and restrict others from using the core system. It’d be cool to see creative folks working toward something actually new instead of slight variations on the same game, over and over.

Also, the fact that they backed down has set a precedent. So now the influencers will just get loud and push them around and the game will lose whatever focus (already strained in 5e) it may have had.

Not so big a deal for me as my interests are mostly games other than D&D or related games, but my group does still play it, and I admit to having a nostalgic soft spot for it. I’d have liked to see the One D&D playtest result in some interesting choices. seems less likely at this point.
 
In a roundabout way, I kind of regret that the OGL debacle failed so totally.

There’s part of me that wishes WOTC was able to cancel the OGL and restrict others from using the core system. It’d be cool to see creative folks working toward something actually new instead of slight variations on the same game, over and over.

Also, the fact that they backed down has set a precedent. So now the influencers will just get loud and push them around and the game will lose whatever focus (already strained in 5e) it may have had.

Not so big a deal for me as my interests are mostly games other than D&D or related games, but my group does still play it, and I admit to having a nostalgic soft spot for it. I’d have liked to see the One D&D playtest result in some interesting choices. seems less likely at this point.
That‘s one of my concerns. D&D is going to be more and more watered down as more cooks get in the kitchen. It was mentioned on one of the YouTube channels I watch that Wizards has hundreds of people working on the VTT, whereas it only took a handful of people to craft each previous edition. This most likely means that they will not put anything in the game that does not easily translate to the VTT.
 
In a roundabout way, I kind of regret that the OGL debacle failed so totally.

There’s part of me that wishes WOTC was able to cancel the OGL and restrict others from using the core system. It’d be cool to see creative folks working toward something actually new instead of slight variations on the same game, over and over.

I see this kind of comment thrown out there often. The thing is I don't see the baren wasteland of games that some are seeing.

I'm trying to figure out how the OGL has stifled creativity. The reality is a lot of the d20 and OSR stuff currently out there would probably just not exist in the market place. It's not like all these OSR games would have been published under another set of rules of the authors creation, and likely would just remain house rules for 3E, 5E, 2E etc and be limited to small groups of people.

Are there many D&D / OSR conversions? Yep. Would they really have been released under another set of rules if the OGL didn't exist?
I'm thinking no.
D&D doesn't even hoard all of the licensed conversions, Free League, Cubicle 7, Pinnacle and Modiphius have produced far more licensed settings than the various D&D based games. SJG and TDM have offered far more historical settings.

I get that many lament D&D's popularity, but it is a thing. The OGL has if anything offered more variety as all these small companies run by actual fans more worried about turning out something cool than profit will always make more interesting products than a big corporate entity worried about the shareholders.


D&D of any variety is pretty low on my preferences, with only a couple of the more esoteric OSR games even vying for the bottom slots of my top 10 favorite games. Even I can see the value of the OGL as it has created several games that sit much higher for me than any official variant of D&D.
 
I really object to what Wizards is going to end up doing to D&D and this influencer gathering didn’t do anything to change my perception.
Meh. If they burn D&D, so be it, another game will take it's place (Again).

Also, the fact that they backed down has set a precedent. So now the influencers will just get loud and push them around and the game will lose whatever focus (already strained in 5e) it may have had.
"Influencers" are just RPG community members with a larger voice, though; this wasn't a group of people inventing a problem and kicking off about it for the sake of kicking off on the internet, it was a group publicising a very genuine problem with what WotC were doing and drawing community attention to it.
 
Yeah based on what I have just from bundles on itch.io any claims of diminished variety seem highly dubious to me
 
What I feel we've lacked for a while is much in the way of a second tier putting out original products, like we used to have in the 90s. There's Modiphius and Free League. but their kickstarter models seems to be mostly focused on licensed games which is somewhat limiting (less so for Free League). (And of course Paizo but they're just doing more D&D).

There's lots of OSR games and Powered by the Apocalypse games which are great for quick pick up and play, but at a certain level they become interchangeable and their settings lack depth.
 
What I feel we've lacked for a while is much in the way of a second tier putting out original products, like we used to have in the 90s. There's Modiphius and Free League. but their kickstarter models seems to be mostly focused on licensed games which is somewhat limiting (less so for Free League). (And of course Paizo but they're just doing more D&D).

There's lots of OSR games and Powered by the Apocalypse games which are great for quick pick up and play, but at a certain level they become interchangeable and their settings lack depth.
There certainly is more depth to the RPG market now but I don’t think there’s more breadth than say 30-40 years ago.
 
Hmmm

I see Free League offering 13 games, only 4 of which are based on a license, and one of the licenses is for an older RPG (T2000). These games cover fantasy, horror, sci-fi, post apocalypse etc.

The Design Mechanism has many settings for Mythras, 2 original fantasy settings, 5 mythic earth settings, one original urban fantasy, and two licensed settings. Additionally they have Casting the Runes based on the Gumshoe system.

Pinnacle / Savage Worlds has a slew of settings, some licensed some original, not even going to bother counting.

Steve Jackson Games - GURPS, The Fantasy Trip again I lack the fingers to tally these up.

Chaosium continues to offer Runequest and Call of Cthulhu and lately has begun to offer some other tid bits like Pendragon, Upwind and 7th Sea. Call of Cthulhu now covers a pretty wide range from Ancient Rome to modern times.

Cubicle 7 and Modiphius offer a slew of licensed settings.

Paizo has their "not D&D" in both fantasy and sci-fi flavors

Mongoose has the Traveller and Paranoia licenses as well as a pirate game Sea of Thieves (video game license).

Below these any of which I think can legitimately be consider the second tier there are hundreds of little guys, and below them thousands of tiny guys. Go to DTRPG, pick a genre and there is probably a game for it, and likely several even in the most obscure of genres.



The bigger problem really seems to be nobody wants to play the games I like.
 
I see this kind of comment thrown out there often. The thing is I don't see the baren wasteland of games that some are seeing.

I never said anything about a barren wasteland. I said there’s a part of me that wished that all the folks making D&D derivatives instead had to channel their creativity toward something different and original.

That there are good games available doesn’t mean there couldn’t be more.

"Influencers" are just RPG community members with a larger voice, though; this wasn't a group of people inventing a problem and kicking off about it for the sake of kicking off on the internet, it was a group publicising a very genuine problem with what WotC were doing and drawing community attention to it.

Yeah, I get that. I’m not saying that there wasn’t a legitimate complaint about the OGL fiasco. I’m just saying that one of the results to them backing down means that people will continue to try to persuade them to back down on everything now. Which will probably have some good results, but also some bad.

Company practices? Sure, petition for change. I’m all for it.

Game design? I think the designers would be better served by making a game they thought worked well rather than trying to appease a fanbase that’s far from unified. 5e was already a rules system designed around compromises… taking that further seems like a bad idea to me.
 
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