Rolemaster Unified is too ugly for this Earth

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Yeah, as much as I go on about it there's stuff I'd like to fix in RMSS. You should be able to run it using just categories, just skills, or skills and categories. There should be no undefined ranks in training packages. The training packages should always be on the 3/4 discount but with an experience point boost that can eventually level up the character and a flat restriction on ranks per level. What a training package should do is mostly fill out a character sheet so that it's easier to use for new players.

Make no mistake, what we got in RMU is Mark Rosen's ideal Rolemaster. There's nothing wrong with that because you have to have creative direction at some point but that's also why I should never have been on the committee in the first place.
 
Teotwawki said:
Hello, Rolemaster Unified? I am a giant Las Vegas black velvet painting, and I'd like you to know that I want my Elvis Toreador back!
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It could be an Elvis sighting, but I think he's more likely David Copperfield, heh heh

david.gif
 
I just can't with that queen picture. It has some ultra-realistic aspects, which makes me think it might be a paint-over, but that crown doesn't look physical at all. It looks like a sticker. And then... if she's a queen, seated on a throne, what is she wearing? Ross Dress For Less?
 
pawsplay said:
Ross Dress For Less?
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The new summer line from the Royalty Thrift line is now on display exclusively at your local Ross.

Mankcam said:
It could be an Elvis sighting, but I think he's more likely David Copperfield, heh heh
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Does that mean his head will soon disappear from the painting? Might improve the overall ambiance of the piece. The Queen's Headless Pointer.
 
AsenRG said:
Hmm, Fantasy Express is a 2d10 game, not a d100 one...interesting:shade:.
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That could work equally well, and be far less challenging at the table.
From memory Tim Dugger did this with a game after he finished HARP, I think this may be a new version of those rules.
It looked like HARP with D10s. I'll take another look at this one, but I suspect it's the same game
 
Mankcam said:
That could work equally well, and be far less challenging at the table.
From memory Tim Dugger did this with a game after he finished HARP, I think this may be a new version of those rules.
It looked like HARP with D10s. I'll take another look at this one, but I suspect it's the same game
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Sure, for a roll over game it makes a lot of sense to use dice giving a middle-weighted spread, actually. But you'd still need to rejig all the values, because a bonus of +40 makes sense if Bonus+Die Roll need to beat 100. If they need to beat 20, that's a bit excessive.
 
Mankcam said:
That could work equally well, and be far less challenging at the table.
From memory Tim Dugger did this with a game after he finished HARP, I think this may be a new version of those rules.
It looked like HARP with D10s. I'll take another look at this one, but I suspect it's the same game
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That was Novus, right?

It got a 2nd ed in 2022. But now Fantasy Express is in "open beta" so I suppose that's where his attention will be going from now on.

Anyway, I also pay attention to art in games. I don't think it's shallow to be put off by bad art - I want to feel good when I scan the stuff on my inevitably limited shelfspace. It might mean I get the pdf not a print copy if I am particularly interested in the game for other reasons.
 
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Triumvir said:
That was Novus, right?

It got a 2nd ed in 2022. But now Fantasy Express is in "open beta" so I suppose that's where his attention will be going from now on.

Anyway, I also pay attention to art in games. I don't think it's shallow to be put off by bad art - I want to feel good when I scan the stuff on my inevitably limited shelfspace. It might mean I get the pdf not a print copy if I am particularly interested in the game for other reasons.
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Yeah Novus, that was it.
The fact that Fantasy Express uses D10s makes me think this is a reimagining of Novus
 
Wasn't there a Rolemaster hack from the same guy who did FASERIP? What do you guys think about it:shade:?
 
Mankcam said:
Yeah Novus, that was it.
The fact that Fantasy Express uses D10s makes me think this is a reimagining of Novus
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It's a 2d10 version of Against the Darkmaster, though obviously it does diverge quite a bit. Nonetheless, it's very cool. Rolling over 20 gives you Success Levels to spend, replacing the normal criticals with Boons, for example. That fits all on one page too, so no more flipping pages to get critical results. There are lots of cool manoeuvres in combat as well. If you're into having cool special abilities for your weapons, this is the game for you. It also seems incredibly hackable if you want to build an unique weapon. It's a surprising combo of tight design and the ability to be all loosey-goosey with your house rules if you like. Remember the kynac and long kynac from Rolemaster? It was basically just a falchion +10 with some AT mods or something, I don't remember. In FX, you can actually model it as differently as you like, or not bother at all. You want to add more combat boons? Go right ahead. Decide how many success levels it costs, decide the effect, and you're done. Six success levels is an insta-kill, one success level can be a knock prone or a few extra hits of damage, and three can be a disarm, for example. Figure out where your Boon fits relative to that, and you have a whole new custom "critical". Easy peasy. Get involved in the playtest, it's pretty great.
 
A loooong time ago, I started working on making a hybrid of BRP/Rolemaster Standard System.
I used the ten attributes from Rolemaster, but they were 1-18 not 1-100.
The skill categories from Rolemaster became just skills. I changed some of them, like I remember making a Medicine category with all the medicine like skills from other categories. There were also some very broad weapon categories/skills. With magic, I group all the spell lists into the schools of magic from D&D. Each magic school then became a skill. The base score of each skill, was the three attributes attached to the category in Rolemaster added together.
I removed levels but still had classes. A class would give a starting bonus to your skills, ranging from 0-30 in intervals of 5. These bonuses were based on the skill progression costs in Rolemaster. After character creation skills would improve like in BRP, but the class would determine how many points a skill could increase per improvement. This ranged from a d4-d12. Classes also determined which spell lists the character had access to.
The resistance rolls from Rolemaster, were changed into using the Resistance Table from BRP.
I didn't get further than this, so never found out what to do with backgrounds and other stuff.
 
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Spartan said:
It's a 2d10 version of Against the Darkmaster, though obviously it does diverge quite a bit. Nonetheless, it's very cool. Rolling over 20 gives you Success Levels to spend, replacing the normal criticals with Boons, for example. That fits all on one page too, so no more flipping pages to get critical results. There are lots of cool manoeuvres in combat as well. If you're into having cool special abilities for your weapons, this is the game for you. It also seems incredibly hackable if you want to build an unique weapon. It's a surprising combo of tight design and the ability to be all loosey-goosey with your house rules if you like. Remember the kynac and long kynac from Rolemaster? It was basically just a falchion +10 with some AT mods or something, I don't remember. In FX, you can actually model it as differently as you like, or not bother at all. You want to add more combat boons? Go right ahead. Decide how many success levels it costs, decide the effect, and you're done. Six success levels is an insta-kill, one success level can be a knock prone or a few extra hits of damage, and three can be a disarm, for example. Figure out where your Boon fits relative to that, and you have a whole new custom "critical". Easy peasy. Get involved in the playtest, it's pretty great.
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I see that there is some art recycled from HARP Fantasy and Novus in that pdf, so I guess its the successor to both, via lots of influences from VsD
I think I'm still likely to go with VsD as my ICE game, but this has intrigued me as well, so I've put it in my DrivethruRPG wait list
 
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On a related note it is really unfortunate they couldn't get the rights for the artwork for the early releases of The Fantasy Trip as they are wonderfully 70s hippieish psychedelia.

1000005864.jpg

The replacement artwork is alright but the decision to include KS backers as models for the illustrations is terrible as it ends up looking like the IT department is cosplaying in a Deathstalker knock-off.
 
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AsenRG said:
It's two links, actually.

DriveThruRPG

preview.drivethrurpg.com preview.drivethrurpg.com

DriveThruRPG

preview.drivethrurpg.com preview.drivethrurpg.com
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Wow, I'm not sure what to think here. You take an already top heavy potentially cumbersome system for some and you tackle it, wrangled it down to the ground and turn it into a d20 system with exploding dice etc. A part of me wants to buy both books just to read through it and do a lot of gawking. It's like D&D and Rolemaster shacked up during a drunken weekend and this was the result.
 
Spellslinging Sellsword said:
I thought Rolemaster Express was a good route to go with the game, but I have no idea how well it did.
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I fondly recall Rolemaster Express (RMX)! It was pretty close to MERP in many respects. I think I have something like 5 copies in storage and one on my bookshelf (beside my Shadow World books). (There was a sale, I think, where you could get something like 6 copies for RMX at a low price.)

I don't how successful it was, but Rasyr produced a number "Express Additions" (or something like that), which were short PDFs with ways to expand RMX.

I believe Rasyr was planning to use it as the basis for the new edition of Rolemaster (so, using a streamlined version of RM 2e rather than fiddle with RMSS). But those plans -- along with RMX -- all disappeared when the "new ICE" took over.

It's a shame, since RMX was a rather excellent intro product. A complete version of Rolemaster -- in 88 pages!
 
Acmegamer said:
Wow, I'm not sure what to think here. You take an already top heavy potentially cumbersome system for some and you tackle it, wrangled it down to the ground and turn it into a d20 system with exploding dice etc. A part of me wants to buy both books just to read through it and do a lot of gawking. It's like D&D and Rolemaster shacked up during a drunken weekend and this was the result.
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Not a good example of the system, then...:thumbsup:

I've been thinking of getting at least acquainted with RoleMaster, but the number of variants makes it a bit hard to choose a good one for me. Of course, I don't want to get a variant that would make me just give up on the whole family of games, though it might save me expenses down the line:shade:!

(I was asking, because I can't really compare, not having read other Rolemaster variants. MERP was so long ago I don't really remember more than the name and maybe some critical results, and I'm not sure even whether those are really from MERP or some other critical table!)
 
Have they ever released a pdf of Rolemaster The Basics? It was a one box starter that basically did the same things as RMFrp only with full sized tables.
 
AsenRG said:
Not a good example of the system, then...:thumbsup:

I've been thinking of getting at least acquainted with RoleMaster, but the number of variants makes it a bit hard to choose a good one for me. Of course, I don't want to get a variant that would make me just give up on the whole family of games, though it might save me expenses down the line:shade:!

(I was asking, because I can't really compare, not having read other Rolemaster variants. MERP was so long ago I don't really remember more than the name and maybe some critical results, and I'm not sure even whether those are really from MERP or some other critical table!)
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Unless you were a hardcore Rolemaster fan, I would honestly just get Against The Darkmaster these days
 
Mankcam said:
Unless you were a hardcore Rolemaster fan, I would honestly just get Against The Darkmaster these days
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Even based purely on mechanics::honkhonk:?

(I really don't care what the art is, "no art" would suit me just fine:thumbsup:!)
 
AsenRG said:
Even based purely on mechanics::honkhonk:?

(I really don't care what the art is, "no art" would suit me just fine:thumbsup:!)
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The core mechanic is practically the same as Rolemaster, however there are less tables to refer to, and I find the Character Classes and Magic better - this is purely subjective however

The Against The Darkmaster Quickstart Rules are PWYW, so just download it for free if you like - it'll give you an indication on whether or not you decide to purchase the full rules:
Against The Darkmaster Quickstart
 
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You have (IMHO) just three sensible options. Two of which are almost exactly the same:

Rolemaster 1st/2nd Edition: The tried and tested original game, nothing wrong with it and it was popular. I think the 2nd edition was just slightly tidied up, almost no differences. Comes in three rule books Arms Law, Spell Law and Character Law - plus Creatures and Treasures.
MERP: A simplified version of Rolemaster tied to Middle Earth. It has fewer stats and tables (especially combat) so plays slightly faster.
Against the Darkmaster: This is a MERP clone (not Rolemaster - e.g. stats, and combat tables are all taken from MERP with few changes). This is if you're not running in Middle Earth and/or you want an in print game. This game is required as MERP cannot be reprinted.

You can mix and match - particularly combat. Arms Law can simply replace the combat tables from MERP or AtDM.

You have many many companions with optional rules for RM. If used to any extent these massively over-complicate skills and lead to power creep in Character Classes. In general best to avoid.
Of the many other variant systems only one had any real traction - Rolemaster Standard System (RMSS). This was very attractive at the time but in play in quickly became clear that it was over-complex, particularly skills. It has many fans but I'd only recommend this to someone who has already played Rolemaster.
I believe all the many other variants are either attempts to fix RMSS, or attempts to plug the gap left by MERP being cancelled (they could not simply republish MERP with the Tolkien references filed off, though that is exactly what AtDM is).

Whatever you do, DO NOT BUY A PERFECT BOUND VERSION OF ARMS LAW!
 
A random search on the net brought this pic up, which I recognised as the Rolemaster books we mainly used in the 1980s.
My GM went through different books in the 1990s, but always returned to these. Possibly out of nostalgia, but he always felt this was the best ruleset warts and all. We played this on and off until he moved us into HARP Fantasy sometime in the 2000s

1713783318019.png
 
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JoeNuttall said:
Rolemaster 1st/2nd Edition: The tried and tested original game, nothing wrong with it and it was popular. I think the 2nd edition was just slightly tidied up, almost no differences. Comes in three rule books Arms Law, Spell Law and Character Law - plus Creatures and Treasures.
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The mechanics are the same, or close enough it doesn't matter, but RM2 is massively tidied up -- layout, fonts and overall readability and utility are an order of magnitude better.
 
JoeNuttall said:
You have (IMHO) just three sensible options. Two of which are almost exactly the same:

Rolemaster 1st/2nd Edition: The tried and tested original game, nothing wrong with it and it was popular. I think the 2nd edition was just slightly tidied up, almost no differences. Comes in three rule books Arms Law, Spell Law and Character Law - plus Creatures and Treasures.
MERP: A simplified version of Rolemaster tied to Middle Earth. It has fewer stats and tables (especially combat) so plays slightly faster.
Against the Darkmaster: This is a MERP clone (not Rolemaster - e.g. stats, and combat tables are all taken from MERP with few changes). This is if you're not running in Middle Earth and/or you want an in print game. This game is required as MERP cannot be reprinted.

You can mix and match - particularly combat. Arms Law can simply replace the combat tables from MERP or AtDM.

You have many many companions with optional rules for RM. If used to any extent these massively over-complicate skills and lead to power creep in Character Classes. In general best to avoid.
Of the many other variant systems only one had any real traction - Rolemaster Standard System (RMSS). This was very attractive at the time but in play in quickly became clear that it was over-complex, particularly skills. It has many fans but I'd only recommend this to someone who has already played Rolemaster.
I believe all the many other variants are either attempts to fix RMSS, or attempts to plug the gap left by MERP being cancelled (they could not simply republish MERP with the Tolkien references filed off, though that is exactly what AtDM is).

Whatever you do, DO NOT BUY A PERFECT BOUND VERSION OF ARMS LAW!
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I can't really disagree with most of this, even as an RMSS fan. However, the best version of Arms Law is far and away the original RMSS version, which keeps the variable crits while also vastly improving the readability of the crit special effects over earlier versions.

Edit: I'd actually be inclined to say the same for Spell Law, and the RMSS version will slot into RM2 without issues.
 
Sable Wyvern said:
I can't really disagree with most of this, even as an RMSS fan. However, the best version of Arms Law is far and away the original RMSS version, which keeps the variable crits while also vastly improving the readability of the crit special effects over earlier versions.

Edit: I'd actually be inclined to say the same for Spell Law, and the RMSS version will slot into RM2 without issues.
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At the table I'd use the old lie-flat copies of Arms Law but with the crit charts printed out from RMSS. Best of both worlds.
 
JoeNuttall said:
At the table I'd use the old lie-flat copies of Arms Law but with the crit charts printed out from RMSS. Best of both worlds.
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I actually tore all my RMSS pages out along the perforations. I have a huge binder of attack and crit tables (Arms Law, Firearms, Spell Law, Arcane Law, plus the odd copy of some RM2 crit tables), and then a smaller binder for table use with the relevant PC and NPC tables.
 
Sable Wyvern said:
I can't really disagree with most of this, even as an RMSS fan. However, the best version of Arms Law is far and away the original RMSS version, which keeps the variable crits while also vastly improving the readability of the crit special effects over earlier versions.

Edit: I'd actually be inclined to say the same for Spell Law, and the RMSS version will slot into RM2 without issues.
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I think RMSS' Spell Law also has better lists, having filled in the gaps so you don't have lists that are half-empty.
 
JoeNuttall said:
At the table I'd use the old lie-flat copies of Arms Law but with the crit charts printed out from RMSS. Best of both worlds.
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My RMSS Arms Law and Spell Law are in pieces, with the pages in protectors in folders. They saw a lot of use in the day.

I sold my copies of RM2 (revised - the one with the McBride covers) long ago, but have since bought hard copies of RMC and then got gifted the old RM2 boxed set.
rolemaster2ndboxset93.jpg

As I never sold off the various Creatures & Treasures books I've effectively got a complete RM2 core set (but not the companions, which aside from a few of the professions I don't miss, and wouldn't care about if I were running the game).
 
Sharrow said:
My RMSS Arms Law and Spell Law are in pieces, with the pages in protectors in folders. They saw a lot of use in the day.

I sold my copies of RM2 (revised - the one with the McBride covers) long ago, but have since bought hard copies of RMC and then got gifted the old RM2 boxed set.
rolemaster2ndboxset93.jpg

As I never sold off the various Creatures & Treasures books I've effectively got a complete RM2 core set (but not the companions, which aside from a few of the professions I don't miss, and wouldn't care about if I were running the game).
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Oh, that boxed set was still RM2? Those are the poorly laid out, terrible font ones I was referring to.
 
Akrasia said:
Tim Dugger ("Rasyr"), the main author of HARP (who sometimes posts here), is a big fan of Against the Darkmaster and has produced his own variant of it (Fantasy Express). He posts regularly over at the VsD Discord site. (I loathe Discord and only visit it because it's the main place for the VsD community. I wish VsD just had a normal forum instead.)
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Yes, am in the process of making such a product (have the full version (300 pages), a Lite version (160 pages), a Chargen Example, a Combat Example, 2 modules so far (one is a quickstart for free, and contains 15 Pregens), character sheets (for printing or a PDF form version -- 2 and 3 page variants) over on DriveThruRPG.

Akrasia said:
I don't think he's involved any more with HARP (probably because relations with the current version of ICE are not friendly, to say the least -- I don't know the details, but that's what I've gathered from various things Rasyr has said publicly over the years).
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Not since October of 2010....
 
David Johansen said:
I think HARP was intended as the root of a new version entirely but it wasn't as well accepted as they hoped and it became clear that RM2 was where the most money was at the time. Since Tim was doing pretty much all of the writing it was hard to support all the game lines at once but it was pretty clear early on that once the books they had in the pipes before the bankruptcy brought in some much needed immediate revenue there was really no intention of supporting RMSS / SPAM. But the reality is they needed a whole new version going forward for copyright and ownership reasons. I'm not sure how soon this became apparent. It may be that Nicholas Caldwell figured it out as he scrambled to get rights to all the stuff ICE couldn't produce anymore, often because the and artists didn't get paid due to the financial issues that ended ICE 1.0. RMU pretty much ditched everything I liked about Rolemaster. I spent a year of my life arguing and defending and bending and eventually I snapped and flamed out. When I was first asked to be on the comittee I said no, and I said why and I should have stuck with it because I was right about how it would go and what would come out of it though even I didn't think it'd take ten years to get the damn thing out.
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The original intention of HARP was to replace MERP and to be a bit of stepping stone from D&D 3.0 to RM (I wanted to make it 2d10, but was over-ruled on that early on). the early vocations looked like MERP and it had MERP-like combat tables as well, but again, I got over-ruled (by Seal for the Vocations, he found them too difficult to understand -- you can see a small overview of that first version here -- https://www.wizlair.net/post.html?an=HARP 1.0&fn=harp -- (note: my first attempt at scalable spells SUCKED big time.. hehehe
 
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