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Ghost Whistler said:
Tuthully they can't do much - but just closing it and banning him might send a message.

It's symbolic
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Wouldn't that prevent the backers from even the slim chance they might actually eventually get anything?
 
I suspect the people who are still on his side would take issue with that, and go after Kickstarter for closing it. He does have people who still believe in him. Why they do is beyond me, but there are.
 
I keep wondering when the SEC is going to decide KS falls into their wheelhouse. Essentially this is private funding from non qualified investors which is a big no no in the investment world. I mean the rule exists precisely because this used to be done as a way to fund companies and they were shady as shit. I doubt it will happen when you have an administration that believes in either laissez fair governance or one that wants to help the little guy get access to things only the big boys traditionally due. But at some point you'll get an actual middle of the road protective government and it's going to add new rules covering this crap.
 
Bunch said:
I keep wondering when the SEC is going to decide KS falls into their wheelhouse. Essentially this is private funding from non qualified investors which is a big no no in the investment world. I mean the rule exists precisely because this used to be done as a way to fund companies and they were shady as shit. I doubt it will happen when you have an administration that believes in either laissez fair governance or one that wants to help the little guy get access to things only the big boys traditionally due. But at some point you'll get an actual middle of the road protective government and it's going to add new rules covering this crap.
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There may be some kind of oversight at some point, but I doubt it will come from the SEC. Going in on a Kickstarter simply doesn't carry the same kind of uncertainty as an investment. You are paying money to pre-order a specific product or products. A Kickstarter can fail, but it's not that different than times that I have subscribed to a magazine that went under before my subscription ran out.
 
As I suspected, he was happy to tweet about the new Dr Who.

Priorities of course.
 
I'm waiting for disgruntled fans to write fanfics about the brouhaha! :tongue:
 
Dumarest said:
My word...why would anyone get in bed with this guy?
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He's been in the industry for decades now, and has done a lot of solid work. Has he ever dropped the ball on doing freelance work for other companies before? I've never heard anything about it. Utter failure on handling your own Kickstarter is a whole different thing than doing some work for hire.

I completely understand people being skeptical of his ability manage a project, but going back to just working for others seems the natural path for people that fail at running their own business.

I frankly find that the current trend of people using the Internet to hound people out of employment to be at least as awful anything GMS has done.
 
So you'd hire a documented liar and fraudster as long as he hasn't defrauded and lied to you personally? And then you'd deceive your own customers about what you've done? That's an interesting perspective.
 
Baulderstone said:
He's been in the industry for decades now, and has done a lot of solid work. Has he ever dropped the ball on doing freelance work for other companies before? I've never heard anything about it. Utter failure on handling your own Kickstarter is a whole different thing than doing some work for hire.

I completely understand people being skeptical of his ability manage a project, but going back to just working for others seems the natural path for people that fail at running their own business.

I frankly find that the current trend of people using the Internet to hound people out of employment to be at least as awful anything GMS has done.
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I agree that the online harassing people out of employment is something of a worrying trend, but also think that a consumer has a right to be informed and chose what creators they want to support (or not). This doesnt seem to be a case of , say, people calling GMS's employers and making threats, but rather Modiphius being deliberately deceptive to get around the moral issues that many fans have with supporting anything with GMS's name on it.

It's hard for me to say from that Tenkar's post how much of it is true though, at least insofar as the supposed alias being used.
 
Baulderstone said:
I frankly find that the current trend of people using the Internet to hound people out of employment to be at least as awful anything GMS has done.
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It's funny you should say that, because I hated GMS for doing exactly that for years before his failed Kickstarter.

Is that better or worse than his being a fucking thief of other's labor?
 
Dumarest said:
So you'd hire a documented liar and fraudster as long as he hasn't defrauded and lied to you personally? And then you'd deceive your own customers about what you've done? That's an interesting perspective.
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Nope. But I really don't care if other people want to hire him. I'm tired of everyone filtering the credits of every RPG product through their enemies list looking for a grievance.

FaerieGodfather said:
It's funny you should say that, because I hated GMS for doing exactly that for years before his failed Kickstarter.
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Same here. It's a classic cautionary tale of goading on the Internet hate machine.
 
I've never understood, how people got past the guy's sheer arrogance and that long before he committed any other sins of which I knew. I'm always a bit sympathetic to people who fail to deliver a kickstarter. It's a bit of a trap in that you can get so much money up front but do it by promising so much. Honestly it seems best as a vehicle for established producers who have solid experience in delivering products to market. But it's tempting, I write these games and after six and a half years of losing money running a gaming store I could really use some money. Oh well, looking at the bones of the victims of whatever beast lairs there under the name of sanders errr I mean kickstarter, one might well take a hint eh?
 
Ulairi said:
My problem is his arrogance more than the failed KS. He's a jerk.
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No question there. I think that is part of the reason why his failed Kickstarter is the favorite to point and laugh at. He'd already built up a lot of ill-will already just on his personal conduct.
 
Baulderstone said:
Nope. But I really don't care if other people want to hire him. I'm tired of everyone filtering the credits of every RPG product through their enemies list looking for a grievance.


Same here. It's a classic cautionary tale of goading on the Internet hate machine.
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Yeah to me the bigger Red Flag is his unprofessional behaviour on Twitter, if I was hiring someone I know from experience that despite claims to the contrary shitty behaviour online does translate into shitty behaviour in RL.

But if others want to hire him not my business.
 
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I can perfectly understand Modiphius' stated motivations for hiring GMS, and I sympathize with them. If the man weren't one of a small handful of professionals in this industry that I legitimately hate, I like to hope that I'd have the fortitude to do the same thing for a skilled but unpopular professional trying to make good on his debts.

If he had not been "unpopular" because he was a bully and a thief who has spent his entire adult existence doing that exact opposite of what Modiphius is claiming they're trying to do for him, that is. But we're leaving that aside to be charitable and say that I can understand why they want to help him.

But it's inexcusable to lie to their customers about it. It is inexcusable to lie to their customers for any reason, and their customers certainly have every right to know that their money would go to Gareth Michael Skarka-- and then, therefore, to decide for themselves whether or not to spend it.

I wouldn't have boycotted a product just because GMS worked on it. But now I have to, and I fucking hate it.
 
Just another reason not to buy their products. I already don’t like how the try and fit a square peg into a round hole by using their house system in almost every game they release.
 
Never trust anybody who includes their middle name in their preferred method of address.
 
I really do not get the outrage here. I understand people being angry over a kickstarter. I don't understand why people care if someone gets freelance work. I can't keep track of all the outrage and boycotts these days. But never a fan of trying to take work away from someone. All my interactions with Gareth have been positive. And he has a history of solid design. I get that the kickstarter left some people upset. But the obsession with it seems a bit disproportionate. If people want to take the guy to court because they feel they were wronged, they are free to do so. But I am absolutely done participating in these trials of public opinion to destroy peoples lives and careers.

As for whether Mophidius is being shady. I don't know. Writers use pseudonyms all the time. I don't think companies have to cater to peoples' desires to withhold buying from individuals they dislike. If they had wanted to they could have just had him write a bunch of stuff, paid him, and never mentioned his name at all. It is entirely up to them and him how the credits situation gets handled. Not sure if those screenshots prove anything though.
 
TristramEvans said:
I agree that the online harassing people out of employment is something of a worrying trend, but also think that a consumer has a right to be informed and chose what creators they want to support (or not). This doesnt seem to be a case of , say, people calling GMS's employers and making threats, but rather Modiphius being deliberately deceptive to get around the moral issues that many fans have with supporting anything with GMS's name on it.
.
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Personally I am finding the constant moral posturing on this stuff tiresome. I don't really care if publishers tell me who contributed to a book and who didn't. And I don't hold it against a publisher if they try to give an unpopular person work so they can put food on the table and allow them to use a pseudonym. There is just too much internet mob justice around all this stuff these days. I really can't take it seriously anymore. Everyone has some kind of axe to grind and I think companies are better off just ignoring all the moralizing noise.
 
BedrockBrendan said:
Personally I am finding the constant moral posturing on this stuff tiresome. I don't really care if publishers tell me who contributed to a book and who didn't. And I don't hold it against a publisher if they try to give an unpopular person work so they can put food on the table and allow them to use a pseudonym. There is just too much internet mob justice around all this stuff these days. I really can't take it seriously anymore. Everyone has some kind of axe to grind and I think companies are better off just ignoring all the moralizing noise.
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Those are some strange ethical arguments. So if Bernie Madoff were to be paroled, a financial services company shouldn't think twice about what it means to hire him. And if they hire him and try to hide the fact, there's nothing shady about that and it's people pointing out the shadiness who are in the wrong. Got it.
 
Dumarest said:
Those are some strange ethical arguments. So if Bernie Madoff were to be paroled, a financial services company shouldn't think twice about what it means to hire him. And if they hire him and try to hide the fact, there's nothing shady about that and it's people pointing out the shadiness who are in the wrong. Got it.
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Don’t have time to fully respond but no this isn’t what I said. These are very different situations. It would be one thing to hire Bernie Madoff for a job in finance, given that he is a convicted felon and the nature of his crime. But this is more like boycotting the McDonalds that Bernie gets a job at when he gets out of prison or something. I just don’t get the hounding obsession and I don’t like seeing these trials in the court of public opinion where companies are used to enact extrajudicial punishment by getting them to fire people or refuse to hire them. There is a court system. If people feel wronged by the guy, the courts are where that should play out. But I think the more companies cater to this nonsense, the worse it is for actual content.
 
BedrockBrendan said:
Personally I am finding the constant moral posturing on this stuff tiresome. I don't really care if publishers tell me who contributed to a book and who didn't. And I don't hold it against a publisher if they try to give an unpopular person work so they can put food on the table and allow them to use a pseudonym. There is just too much internet mob justice around all this stuff these days. I really can't take it seriously anymore. Everyone has some kind of axe to grind and I think companies are better off just ignoring all the moralizing noise.
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I can see your point, but I don't know that I could discuss that in-depth without falling into politics. I don't support harassment for any reason, , but I think "voting with your dollars" is a perfectly valid choice and doesn't represent any form of harassment. You are of course correct that Modiphius had no obligation to reveal their creators, but that doesnt seem to be the issue, it's the dishonesty in the way they went about it (which is also the main issue with GMS regarding the Kickstarter).

I have no opinion on the theory regarding a pseudonym put forth in the link in the OP by Tenkar, it seems to be pure conjecture from all that I saw, but I do think Modiphius have made a major PR error that has lost them trust.
 
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