A thread full of horse

As Dumarest and I both apparently enjoy horses RPGs, I'll start this one up.

I once put in a herd of 20 horses that some cultists had tied up outside their ruined temple while they were inside performing dark rituals. The party stole the horses. What I didn't realize was that in Mythras (the system) horses are worth 3.333 (repeating of course) times the yearly income of a peasant. 50k silver is A LOT of money - like enough for buying ships outright. They are properly valued I imagine.

also, I've always wanted to do a horse archer. I did one long ago in Iron heroes, and it was boring as hell. No one could challenge you. you moved too fast, could stay at range, and plunk away. Also nice in mythras because you can move your horse at gallop and still fire and reload quite happily (though at a penalty, no doubt) where you can't do it on foot quite as easily

Raleel said:

also, I've always wanted to do a horse archer.

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I imagine a horse could easily hold a bow in its mouth but how would it draw?



In a D&D 5e game I was in, we used the paladin's steed to lure some horse thieves. Some guy was apparently plane shifted to a world of shiny metal, miniature horses, and amazingly-detailed paintings before returning home and all he can think about is getting back. Amongst his effects when he was dispatched were the aforementioned tiny painting (a small locket with a Disney World photo in it) and some mad scrawlings referencing "horse power".

Someday running a D&D campaign with lots of cavalry combat has been on my bucket list ever since I discovered the Fire Emblem games. They revitalized my interest in using more of D&D's underutilized core systems instead of constantly chasing new crunch and splats.

Raleel said:

horses are worth 3.333 (repeating of course)

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I duplicate of what i posted in the other thread.

Horses in the Majestic Wilderlands (for Swords & Wizardry)

Riding Horse
Init +1; AC 7[12] HD 2; HP 7; Save 16;
Move 180’; CL/XP 2/30;
Attacks (x1)
Hooves; HTB +2, DMG 1d6-1;
Special
Not Combat Trained; To attack while on a riding horse requires a successful Athletics check of 10 or better or the horse will ride away from the impending danger. If the riding horse is hit during combat the rider must make an Athletic check of 15 or better or the horse will run away from whatever hit it.
Harvest
Hide 20d;

Warhorse
Init +1; AC 7[12] HD 3; HP 10; Save 14;
Move 180’; CL/XP 3/60;
Attacks (x1)
Hooves; HTB +3, DMG 1d6-1;
Special
Combat Trained; If the horse is hit during combat the rider must make an Athletic check of 10 or better or the warhorse will run away from whatever hit it. There is no check to attack while riding a warhorse.
Harvest
Hide 20d;

Breeds

Creating a new breed of horse requires a lot of time and effort. These are some of the more common breeds in Harn and Kethira. There are undoubtably other less well known breeds. Horses are the prized possessions of the nobility and a number of them conduct breeding programs. Here are some descriptions of some breeds of horses and related equines.

Ass
A small equine used as a pack animal and for riding. Related to the donkey.

Ghinorian
The most common breed of horse in the Northern Padizan. It was spread widely by the Ghinorian Empire. The Ghinorian horse is most commonly trained as rouncys, pacers and palfreys. Occasionally they are trained as courses or chargers. The Ghinorian does not have a distinctive colouring.

Tharian Pony
The Tharian horse is unique in the Wilderlands. Only 13 to 14 hands high and weighing less than 1000 lbs. These diminutive steeds have been bred by the Tharian to carry their warriors swiftly over rugged country. The Tharian horse dates back at least 1500 years (it is not clear if they were brought from their western homelands) and in that time the Tharian have made every attempt to keep the strain pure, almost to the point of fanaticism. No other horses are allowed near a Tharian mare. If a Tharian horse is sold (never a prime animal suited for a warrior) or for some other reason leaves a clan's range, it is never allowed to return.

The Tharian horses are also distinguished by a unique gait. Called the hosk by the Tharians, this is a running walk. a four beat gait, attaining speed up to 12 leagues per hour. A troop of horse in the hosk will quickly fall into rhythm; enemies of the Tharians quickly learn to fear the four beat staccato that thunders towards them. The final charge is done at the gallop which achieves speeds up to 16 leagues per hour, a truly shock attack.

The Tharian horse matures slowly and is not ridden seriously until it is at least four years old. It achieves its greatest strength from 8 to 18 years.

Not all of the Tharian horses are so prized. Only the best are reserved for warriors. The Tharians also maintain herds for trade and utility animals. Although strong and fast, a Tharian horse is not suitable for an armoured knight's warhorse.

Ioian
After the destruction of the Empire of Ghinor and the foundation of the Ioian Empire, the Ioians began to breed their steppes ponys with the native horses to produce the Ionian horse. The Ionian is larger than normal breeds and is noted for it's hardiness.

Donkey
The donkey is placid and hardy, which makes it more suitable for some purposes than horses. They are commonly used as pack animals or steeds for the poor (especially the Peonian clergy). They tend to be smaller than asses. Although hardy, they are sensitive to cold.

Modroni
The result of a breeding program between the Ghinorian and the Ioinan horse. The Ghinorians of Modron where very quick to produce a horse capable of bearing an armoured knight. The Modroni horse is often trained as a charger or palfrey. These horses are larger than their Ioian ancesters but are not quite as hardy. They are however more easily trained and tend to be better natured. Some even say that this breed is more intelligent that other horses.

Elessarian Pony
The Elessarian horse is very similar to the Tharian horse, probably because they come from the same base stock. They are short, about 14 hands high, but are strong and fast.

Mule and Jenny
Sterile cross breeds of horses and donkeys (or asses). They are strong, reliable and stubborn. They are used as pack, cart, and riding animals. The mule is the result of a cross between a male and and a female horse. A jenny is the opposite. Mules and Jennys can be recognized by their long ears compared to a horse.

Lenap
The Lenap breed comes from the Princpality of Lenap. They are bred by the desert tribesmen on the borders of the principality. The Lenap is the king of horses, noted for their sleek lines and speed. They are trained as chargers, coursers and palfreys.

Thonian:
The Thorian is one of the largest, rarest and most feared horses to be found in the Majestic Wilderlands. Sometimes known as Dragon Steeds, the Thonian horse is bred and ridden exclusively by the Church of Set. While the breed itself is probably not innately evil, the Church produces horses which are vicious killers after training. The Thonian has a natural colouration that ranges from coal black to a dark red-brown and is almost invariably a solid colour. If a Thonian can be found for sale at all, the price will be astromomical and will also carry the enmity of the Church of Set.

Kuzul Pony
Also known as the Steppe Pony. The Kuzul Pony is the foundation of the success of the eastern tribes. The Steppe Pony is a horse 14 – 15 hands tall. These light, range bred mounts need to be watered only once a day, and mostly feed on the growing grasses of the steppe. In the winter they feed on grass scratched from beneath the snow. Range bred horses are not as fast or as strong as grain fed horses, but they have the virtue of being admirably sturdy on long marches and can forage for themselves without losing their strength or their stamina. The Kuzul Pony is not an attractive horse in most people’s eyes. It is known for it’s hammer head and tendancy towards dun colourings. They usually have an “eel stripe’, a black line running along the spine from the withers to the base of the tail.

Thunderhold Pony:
The Thunderhold Pony is found on the eastern slopes of the Majestic Fastness and is the favoured mount of the Dwarves of Thunderhold. The pony is very agile and spends most of its’ time on the high mountain slopes where it makes its’ home. The Dwarves also use the Thunderhold Pony extensively in mining and for pulling carts.

Kuzulin Great Horse
A very large breed, especially valued as destriers. They are very rare in the City-State, but one or two breeding programs exist. In Nome the increasing weight of armour that knights are wearing has forced the development of bigger stronger horses.

Kalzulin Korgin:
The Nome Korgin was bred by the express order of the first prince of Kazulin. When the Ghinorian Empire fell, The prince was only able to hold on to power by the division of lands among his supporters. This weakened the royal treasury and meant that the new kingdom was unable to field the infantry legions that the Empire had used to conquer the area originally. The prince raised a new kind of army, outfitting his cavalry with stirrups and using the shock of the impact of couched lances to fight for Kalzulin's existance. The breeding program to produce horses big enough and strong enough to carry a fully armoured knight in a lance charge resulted in the Kalzulin Korgin. They are now bred everywhere. These heavy boned horses are usually trained as chargers, but smaller horses are trained for other rolls. Korgins are often dappled greys.

My Mounted Combat rules. I went through Chainmail and OD&D, then combined, edit, and tweaked the rules into a form more suitable for classic D&D.

Mounted Combat
Mounted Combat is an important aspect of fighting outside the dungeon. A mounted warrior has greatly enhanced mobility, speed, and strength compared to the foot soldier. As the centuries roll on techniques will be developed by massed troops to effectively counter the mounted warrior but in the interim the fighting man on horse is the lord of the battlefield.

When fighting from horseback the following rules are in effect.

• When the mounted fighting man moves more than ½ move towards his target he is considered charging.
• Automatically wins initiative if charging. If charging mounted fighting men are present on both sides initiative is diced first among those charging followed by everyone else.
• Gains a attack roll at an advantage to hit any target on foot
• Any target on foot is at disadvantage on his attack roll to hit the horseman.
• If charging the mounted fighting man gets to +2 to his damage on a successful hit on any weapon.
• If the weapon is a lance and the wielder attacks while charging he has the option of doubling the lance’s damage to 4d4+2. When this option is use the lance has to make a saving throw of 15 or better or it be shattered. Knights will do 8d4+2 damage.
• On a charge, the rider may opt to do a knockdown. The horse will slam into the target instead of a rider’s weapon attack. If successful the target is knocked prone and must make a roll at advantage for his saving throw versus paralyzation or be knocked unconscious. Damage is 1d10.

The horse can attack separately from the mounted fighting man.

• The horse may not attack if charging. Note the charging knockdown attack is an exception.
• The horse can only attack a target on foot.
• If a person on foot attacks the horse on the rider’s shield side then the horse gains the rider’s shield bonus.
• If you track rations a horse requires rations equal to that of an individual character. The referee may rule that if the party is in a fertile region with grass then horse requires only half of the rations an individual needs.

I love systems that give horses some oomph. They are really under appreciated in D&D. Mythras does things similar to your list there

• A mounted warrior rolls a 1D10+10 for the Hit Location of bipedal creatures, provided the target is lower than the rider.
• A mounted warrior can withdraw freely from engagement on his turn provided his mount moves faster (i.e. has a higher Movement value) than the opponent, and the mount itself is not engaged in attacking.
• A mounted warrior may, at the cost of an Action Point, substitute either his own Combat Style or Ride skill instead of his mount’s, to defend it against attacks.
• A mounted warrior may combine his SIZ with his mount’s for the purposes of avoiding Knockback, provided he passes an unopposed Ride roll.
• A mounted warrior may, when charging with a braced weapon, substitute his own Damage Modifier for that of his mount. A weapon braced for a charging attack cannot be used to parry. If the weapon impales it must be left in the body of the target, or else break or dismount the rider as the mount continues past.

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may not seem like a lot without context, but quick run down - you have a 2 in 10 chance to hit the head instead of a 2 in 20, you can move in and out of melee freely, and your damage modifier with a lance goes from 1d2 or 1d4 to 1d12. This doesn't even count that horses move at twice your speed and can be made to attack for much more damage than you.

Horses just seem so much more dangerous in real life than they do in RPGs. I know there has to be come kind of balance, but I almost always feel a bit underwhelmed by how they are portrayed.

Winterblight said:

Horses just seem so much more dangerous in real life than they do in RPGs. I know there has to be come kind of balance, but I almost always feel a bit underwhelmed by how they are portrayed.

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at least in a few. sometimes they are just a way to get from A to B. GURPS and runequest have always done them pretty well. Cortex I can see how I'd do it (d8 movement, d8 strength, etc). what other ones do them well? I mean, a horse can quite easily kill you.

Winterblight said:

Horses just seem so much more dangerous in real life than they do in RPGs. I know there has to be come kind of balance, but I almost always feel a bit underwhelmed by how they are portrayed.

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In RL when you are near them you sense their sheer mass. Which is why for a time the mounted knight ruled the battlefield. Not just the shock value but the intimidation factor was up there.

There are problem tho, horses are herd animals. And they are living beings. So while incredibly useful it a kind of thing that useful in specific circumstances. Chief of which is that RPGs were born while people were exploring underground mazes. Granted Blackmoor had a lot of open field battles but even then when you measure all the thing you are doing as a character it hard to keep a horse around everywhere you go.

Well, there's this:
https://tommchenry.itch.io/horse-master

In one of our RQ campaigns (where horses were expensive and the PCs were poor) they kept stealing horses, then having them stolen from them in return (and once eaten by flying zandos).

Having a horse or not was often a matter of life and death in the Old West, especially in a place like the Sonora Desert. There's good reason horse theft was punishable by death.

We had a new player show up in our Pathfinder game last night.
He rolled up a... Cavalier? Horseman? Something that specialized in training animals and riding them... and protecting places (I don't very much like Pathfinder and do my best to pretend we're playing B/X D&D).
Anyway, his 'build' was pure combat... and we don't tend to get into combat much (GM warned him about that up front).

At some point he decided that our little town needed a new flag, which would feature an image of him doing his 'signature move'. That being him, standing astride two galloping horses, holding his lance.
I guess we mocked his idea a bit too much. I'm sure my comments about having 'seen that in a circus with a lady and some little dogs' didn't help.
That and the fact that our PCs walk everywhere, or use an ox cart.
Oh, and our characters spent about half an hour discussing whether or not to eat some jam and cheese on toast.

Anyway, he won't be coming back.
I guess we were not the cavalry he was looking for.

Simlasa said:

We had a new player show up in our Pathfinder game last night.
He rolled up a... Cavalier? Horseman? Something that specialized in training animals and riding them... and protecting places (I don't very much like Pathfinder and do my best to pretend we're playing B/X D&D).
Anyway, his 'build' was pure combat... and we don't tend to get into combat much (GM warned him about that up front).

At some point he decided that our little town needed a new flag, which would feature an image of him doing his 'signature move'. That being him, standing astride two galloping horses, holding his lance.
I guess we mocked his idea a bit too much. I'm sure my comments about having 'seen that in a circus with a lady and some little dogs' didn't help.
That and the fact that our PCs walk everywhere, or use an ox cart.
Oh, and our characters spent about half an hour discussing whether or not to eat some jam and cheese on toast.

Anyway, he won't be coming back.
I guess we were not the cavalry he was looking for.

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I would guess not.

If you are discussing jam and cheese on toast, I can’t imagine that pathfinder vs B/X would seem that much difference

Raleel said:

I once put in a herd of 20 horses that some cultists had tied up outside their ruined temple while they were inside performing dark rituals. The party stole the horses. What I didn't realize was that in Mythras (the system) horses are worth 3.333 (repeating of course) times the yearly income of a peasant. 50k silver is A LOT of money - like enough for buying ships outright. They are properly valued I imagine.

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I had a similar thing happen in a D&D game I ran years ago where I had a rival group of adventurers competing with the PCs for loot. Once they got to a dungeon right their rivals, and found a hireling sitting outside the dungeon watching the horses. Rather than go into the dungeon behind them or wait to ambush them when they came out, they decided to cut their losses, leaving the hireling tied up and stealing the horses to sell.

Hmm. I need to add a rival group to my current DCC game, now I think about it....

Horses can be tricky in RPGs as they often require a specialized ability to use optimally, but they can be a pain when only certain players in the party have them and the rest don't. I'd say that is the main reason they tend to be neglected.

Yea, I would think that the cavalier and walkers would be hard. I always phrased it as a cavalier in the dungeon got a set of skills that relies on a mount. It’s like taking the wizards spell book away. Bringing in a cavalier into a party like that can be sort of tone deaf to the campaign.

The old west avoids this problem by making it ubiquitous, and most folks are good enough. Others avoid it by making horses unimportant.

Maybe I should do up a horse culture game.

Baulderstone said:

Horses can be tricky in RPGs as they often require a specialized ability to use optimally, but they can be a pain when only certain players in the party have them and the rest don't. I'd say that is the main reason they tend to be neglected.

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I always figured it had to do with not being able to bring them into dungeons. I'd much rather have a walker in a party of riders than an noisy person in a party of sneaks - now that's a pain!

Apocryphal said:

I always figured it had to do with not being able to bring them into dungeons. I'd much rather have a walker in a party of riders than an noisy person in a party of sneaks - now that's a pain!

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That's DEFINITELY an issue in D&D. I was stating why it is an issue in fantasy/historical RPGs in general.

There is always The Horde AD&D 2e supplement, which Ta'an may be used as a connecting region between Faerûn & Kara-Tur, or stand alone. It's basically fantasy Asian Steppes & Desert, chock-a-bloc with linguistics, culture, and horse details. I like it.

I liked the jousting rules in The Castle Guide for 2e AD&D. Just enough detail for a Knight-focused game without becoming clunky and slowing down the game.

There is a resource book for writers called Writing Horses: The Fine Art of Getting It Right by Judith Tarr



As the title implies, it's aimed at authors without personal experience with horses but want to put believable horses in their books. I

Seems like it would be equally valuable to GMs in the same way.

Winterblight said:

Horses just seem so much more dangerous in real life than they do in RPGs.

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Despite the plethora of notoriously venomous animals in Australia, it is horses that kill far the most people around here.

They're australian horses. What did you expect?

Baragei said:

They're australian horses. What did you expect?

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Agemegos said:

Despite the plethora of notoriously venomous animals in Australia, it is horses that kill far the most people around here.

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People on this forum talk about geese, but horses have a darkness that few realise Seriously though, I spent a lot of time at the local riding school and I know of one man that put his head over the stable door to look at the horse, which was eating feed that had just been dropped over the door, the horse simply raised its head to look up and see who was there and broke the guy's neck and killed him instantly. They are so powerful

TristramEvans said:

There is a resource book for writers called Writing Horses: The Fine Art of Getting It Right by Judith Tarr

View attachment 35057

As the title implies, it's aimed at authors without personal experience with horses but want to put believable horses in their books. I

Seems like it would be equally valuable to GMs in the same way.

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Or they could ask somebody who knows. Bunch of city slickers....

I wrote an article in Footprints #14 about horses for D&D because there was no listing for riding horses or donkeys in the Monster Manual. Yes, I know I've got a screw loose.

I thought I'd do some thread necromancy here...

I'm looking for some feedback on horse training. I have traditionally had five kinds of horses in Cold Iron

1. Draft
2. Riding
3. Draft + Riding
4. Cavalry (won't fight, but won't balk in combat)
5. War

But now I want some finer granularity, so I'm proposing the following training areas for horses:

• Pack animal
• Plough animal
• Cart/Wagon animal
• Racing
• Hunting
• Herding
• Jumping (popular for race and hunting mounts)
• Chariot (animal is trained to pull a vehicle in combat)
• Saddle (animal is trained for riding)
• Battle (animal is trained to be around combat, will not spook easily)
• Combat (animal is trained to fight)
• War (trained for lance charges and such, usually also Combat trained)
• Survival (some creatures might be trained or skilled at tracking and hunting)
• Stealth (some creatures might be trained or skilled at sneaking about)

I'm also wondering what special traits might be inborn for horses.

And then extend this to other mounts and beasts of burden. So the above skills should cover oxen, elephants, camels, etc.

ffilz said:

I thought I'd do some thread necromancy here...

I'm looking for some feedback on horse training. I have traditionally had five kinds of horses in Cold Iron

1. Draft
2. Riding
3. Draft + Riding
4. Cavalry (won't fight, but won't balk in combat)
5. War

But now I want some finer granularity, so I'm proposing the following training areas for horses:

• Pack animal
• Plough animal
• Cart/Wagon animal
• Racing
• Hunting
• Herding
• Jumping (popular for race and hunting mounts)
• Chariot (animal is trained to pull a vehicle in combat)
• Saddle (animal is trained for riding)
• Battle (animal is trained to be around combat, will not spook easily)
• Combat (animal is trained to fight)
• War (trained for lance charges and such, usually also Combat trained)
• Survival (some creatures might be trained or skilled at tracking and hunting)
• Stealth (some creatures might be trained or skilled at sneaking about)

I'm also wondering what special traits might be inborn for horses.

And then extend this to other mounts and beasts of burden. So the above skills should cover oxen, elephants, camels, etc.

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I'm interested in adding more horses in the games I run, but I don't know enough about them (and most of my games aren't that concerned with travel anyway), so I'm going to follow it.

Aside from training (and your list seems reasonably comprehensive), a horse's temperament is important - a nice phlegmatic draught horse might be big and strong enough to be a warhorse, but without a degree of 'spirit' and aggression it won't really fit the role. Obviously physical characteristics matter too, but any decent sized horse will do for hacking (riding), hunting (and thus jumping, etc.), and as a cavalry remount as long as it's in good health.

If you want to make horses more interesting, giving them quirks (both good and bad) might help. Is the horse unusually stupid? High strung and shies and anything and everything (might actually be good for the horse if you're in snake country)? Bites everyone? Or maybe picks one party member to dislike and bites them whenever they're nearby and not paying attention. Or a horse that's absolutely bomb-proof - but only so long as it retains trust that the rider knows what they're doing, so everything's great until the rider panics or fails a ride check, at which point the horse panics ("OMG! The Boss is clueless! I'm doomed!") bucks the rider off and runs for it (I had the dubious privilege of riding a horse like that once - a lovely animal aside from that one thing, and I've never been a great rider, so it was an 'experience'). How about a horse that's just really sure footed - doesn't go lame from rough country, doesn't stumble, etc. Or one that's just got the smoothest gait, so riding it at faster speeds isn't nearly as tiring for the rider as on most horses (or the reverse, where it has a really jarring trot).

Obviously such quirks can alter the value of a horse - if the seller knows about them.

Sharrow said:

Aside from training (and your list seems reasonably comprehensive), a horse's temperament is important - a nice phlegmatic draught horse might be big and strong enough to be a warhorse, but without a degree of 'spirit' and aggression it won't really fit the role. Obviously physical characteristics matter too, but any decent sized horse will do for hacking (riding), hunting (and thus jumping, etc.), and as a cavalry remount as long as it's in good health.

If you want to make horses more interesting, giving them quirks (both good and bad) might help. Is the horse unusually stupid? High strung and shies and anything and everything (might actually be good for the horse if you're in snake country)? Bites everyone? Or maybe picks one party member to dislike and bites them whenever they're nearby and not paying attention. Or a horse that's absolutely bomb-proof - but only so long as it retains trust that the rider knows what they're doing, so everything's great until the rider panics or fails a ride check, at which point the horse panics ("OMG! The Boss is clueless! I'm doomed!") bucks the rider off and runs for it (I had the dubious privilege of riding a horse like that once - a lovely animal aside from that one thing, and I've never been a great rider, so it was an 'experience'). How about a horse that's just really sure footed - doesn't go lame from rough country, doesn't stumble, etc. Or one that's just got the smoothest gait, so riding it at faster speeds isn't nearly as tiring for the rider as on most horses (or the reverse, where it has a really jarring trot).

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Just one question...I can name those horses with human names, and I'd know their numbers...

Is "make a human character and give it hoofs" a decent advice for Refs that aren't familiar with horses?

Sharrow said:

Obviously such quirks can alter the value of a horse - if the seller knows about them.

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Or the buyer.

But that part is kinda unlikely.

AsenRG said:

Just one question...I can name those horses with human names, and I'd know their numbers...

Is "make a human character and give it hoofs" a decent advice for Refs that aren't familiar with horses?

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To a point. Horses are individuals, but they're are definitely bound by being, you know - horses. Some seem to have more 'personality' than others, and they definitely vary in intelligence quite a bit. Like dogs, breed is important both physically and temperamentally, but most horses' breed back when they were far more working 'animals' than 'sport' or 'hobby' ones most breeds were along the lines of 'the horses they have in place X'.

When it comes to using horses, and managing and caring for them, you have to keep in mind that they are large, powerful animals that easily startle, but at the same time they're quite delicate. Their heads are lightly built (unlike those of cattle, for example), and their legs and feet easily injured. They can get gut problems if they eat the wrong things, or too much, and so on.

They are social animals, so introducing new horses to a group can be an issue and cause disruption until they've sorted out their relative status, etc., and if you want smooth operation you need to make allowances for their status and preferences - some will absolutely insist that they always be in front (even if only by a head). Others don't care. Some horses can't be fed with others because they'll refuse to share the feed, even when there's plenty, causing constant fights.

This thread just won't die, won't it This is first time I'm seeing it though. There's a YouTube channel called Modern History TV that regularilshly makes videos about horses in medieval context, and of other interesting topics as well.

In GURPS a warhorse will cost you two thousand silver pieces or more.

Game Master Law for RMSS has a useful table for horse personality quirks.

In my Bare Bones wargame / rpg hybrid you were required to have one figure with the husbandry skill for every mount in the army.

And that's about all I have to say about horses in rpgs except one final quote from the horse in Terry Prachett's Troll Bridge.

"Who do you think was bidding against you?"

ffilz said:

And then extend this to other mounts and beasts of burden. So the above skills should cover oxen, elephants, camels, etc.

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Donkeys have an inborn hatred of canines. They can pretty easily stomp a dog, coyote, or wolf to death. They can get along just fine with family dogs if they are raised around them, though. A lot of ranchers keep a donkey with their sheep or goat herds as guard animals. You see that a LOT in my area. If the donkey lives with the herd, they start to regard themselves as part of it, and will defend the other animals against wild dogs and coyotes (or other predators). They can be a lot more effective than a guard dog.

Some donkeys are reluctant to step over white lines painted on the street, like you see at street crossings. There is something about their vision that makes it difficult for them to tell if the line is flat or raised, so they sometimes have a hard time telling if they should step over it or walk on it. That isn't true of all lines on all surfaces, though. It might have to do with the way the light reflects off white lines, or something like that (I can't recall the exact reason).

Donkeys are really intelligent (more so than many other equines) and will refuse to do anything that they feel might put them in danger. That is part of the reason that they have a reputation for being "stubborn." You can't just goad them into doing things that might hurt them.

Since I first posted in this thread years ago, I have actually run that D&D campaign full of mounted combat (in 5e), crossing it off my bucket list. It worked pretty well. I'll definitely keep leaning into such subsystems, possibly with creatures more exotic that horses.

Just to thrown this out there - a horse full of thread - discuss

Just to throw this out there, you can actually hitch goats to carts and train them to pull them. If you hitch up a whole team, they can even pull a cart with an adult and gear in it.

Ches McCartney, the "Goat Man," is an interesting historical figure who did just that. He would make a great NPC in a 20th century game of some sort. His first wife was a professional knife thrower, which makes his story all the more rpg-worthy. The linked Wikipedia article has a very cool picture of his team of goats hooked to a cart.

Fenris-77 said:

Just to thrown this out there - a horse full of thread - discuss

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Ivermectin will fix that right up.

Very few games in my experience cover one of the most important aspects of traveling on horseback: go too far and you can maim or kill the horse - and really, maiming is often killing, just more slowly.

I appreciate games that don't treat horses as hay-burning motorcycles - 2e Boot Hill, I'm looking at you.



And don't get me started on awesomeness of the 'running your horse to death' variant rule in The Dragon 26.



I genuinely appreciate rules that cover not only the strength and speed of horses, but their fragility as well.

Gamemaster Law for Rolemaster Standard System had (along with some excellent advice on the ways to make use of Illusionism ;) ) some cool tables on horse traits -- not just pure mechanical stuff, but general traits and personalities.

I recall one player bought a cheap nag that was constantly trying to bite him; a fairly small thing, but the memory sticks with me.

I might have to pull the charts out and port some of the ideas over to Dark Sun ... early indications are that at least one character may be interested in picking up a riding kank at some point.