Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
It's not just tabletop RPGs. Web forums as a whole have drastically declined over the past nine years or so. Web forums remain the prevue of Generation X and Baby Boomers. Millennials and Zoomers are all on Discord and Reddit, mostly refusing to use web forums as they seem them as antiquated, like house telephones.
...a group of cosplayers making fools of themselves?I cannot unsee this. O.o
For me, the good/bad of discord is that it's pretty private. I used discord as a game campaign website and we do our thing without anyone else bothering us. You can post files, have some threads for info and others for discussion, plus the video and voice built in. The downside for me is that I've never found a good discord site other than being invited.
Yeah, as you say, that's what Discord is good for: it's private, it's useful for real-time communication. That's about it.I'm on a couple of system-specific Discords but I find them pretty much useless to search for anything specific (rule question, homemade character sheet, etc.). I use campaign-specific channels for online campaigns and Discord is fine for that - real-time image sharing, dice rolling, etc. So, six of one.
For gaming discussions, Discord is a bit like living out Ground Hogs Day.I don't think I've ever used Discord, now that I think about it.
Teamspeak still exists.It's sort of necessary if you play on Roll20, given how glitchy their audio settings are.
But in practice, because you need an invite code/link, it's really just an #IRC server with bells and whistles, something that was considered quaint at the turn of the century.Yeah, as you say, that's what Discord is good for: it's private, it's useful for real-time communication. That's about it.
It's not a forum because it's not trying to be, IMO. It's a chat service, with a "hub" structure.
Reddit is only superficially equivalent to a traditional forum. As mentioned, it does not allow for any sort of meaningful, ongoing discussion. It is designed to continually push discussion on to the next new thing.What I have seen is a decrease in the overall participation in hobby specific message boards that are on their own independent separate websites, but not on ones that are part of larger collections of message boards. Reddit in particular tends to dominate the latter category, and is massively popular. The rpg discussions on Reddit are spread across many many dozens of subreddits (well over 100). See this big incomplete list.
Again, "less user-friendly threading" is a massive understatement. Managing an ongoing or complex conversation is basically impossible. It is designed for a brief rant to harvest some likes and then you move on.Then there are all the Facebook groups, which aren't quite traditional message boards, but are basically the same thing, with less user-friendly threading. There is no telling how many of those exist, particularly when you consider the ones geared toward local gaming communities.
Some of us used to like mIRC!But in practice, because you need an invite code/link, it's really just an #IRC server with bells and whistles, something that was considered quaint at the turn of the century.
We GURPS weirdos love ewe too!TBH that is a big plus IMO. I like mixed places for discussion as the diversity mixes things up. That's why I hang out with all you GURPS weirdos here.
Reddit is only superficially equivalent to a traditional forum. As mentioned, it does not allow for any sort of meaningful, ongoing discussion. It is designed to continually push discussion on to the next new thing.
It would take considerable effort to find a specific post from a week ago, and if you do find it, and try to continue the conversation, it's likely no one will ever know you've done so.
Again, "less user-friendly threading" is a massive understatement. Managing an ongoing or complex conversation is basically impossible. It is designed for a brief rant to harvest some likes and then you move on.
The Pub hasn’t had a drop off. We’ve been pretty consistent the last seven years. I’ve posted stats in other threads to let everyone know how many members and posts we average every day. Surprising COVID didn’t really affect the Pub much. For instance since Jan of 22.
I was very active on a number of mailing lists and I was very resistant to the move to forums, the thing that got me into them more broadly was the death of Google+. Discord seems a necessity these days but I dislike it.
Wave was magnificent for a small group managing their RPG campaign talk. Seamless integration of chat and forum, the absolute best of both worlds.I really lament the death of Wave. And am still annoyed that Google didn’t release it like they promised so we could have federated servers.
Also …. Mastodon. Yeah. No.
That doesn't really give all the stats though. For me, it's subjective, but the post count doesn't always tell you everything.The Pub hasn’t had a drop off. We’ve been pretty consistent the last seven years. I’ve posted stats in other threads to let everyone know how many members and posts we average every day. Surprising COVID didn’t really affect the Pub much. For instance since Jan of 22.
I think because it still does it's job, and it's a lot harder to get people to move to something else. I still have acquaintances of Facebook who've stayed, you just have to ignore the constant plugs.Like so much of the internet people seem to default to whatever is most popular even after #enshittification has settled in. I mean, Facebook is an abomination now, why so many users can't see that it exists to feed them shit advertisers and political vomit rather than connect them to friends and family is beyond me. Clearly, the user experience means shitall to Suckerberg.
While that's true, I think all forums need some sort of moderation, otherwise it's just anarchy. The problem is the methods of moderation can vary.Unfortunately truly open place to have actual discussions online and out or few and far between. Which is why there is a decline.
For me, the good/bad of discord is that it's pretty private. I used discord as a game campaign website and we do our thing without anyone else bothering us. You can post files, have some threads for info and others for discussion, plus the video and voice built in. The downside for me is that I've never found a good discord site other than being invited.
Perhaps this is why it's gaining in popularity. In the past, people had conversations about this stuff and it wasn't written down. Message Boards like this were probably only in existence since the 1970s (with BBS and other services). And I think as the consequences of social media are being found out now, people might want to embrace the "right to be forgotten". I remember a long time ago when usenet was still active (this had to be early 2000s), some media covering the latest batch of contestants for the CBS show Survivor found a few people asked where to score drugs on a usenet forum.I'd say most companies tend to shift to Discord exactly because it's more ephemeral. Most companies don't like historical records unless they have total control. Discord is better for more fleeting conversations and finding people with like-minded interests in the moment.
Teamspeak still exists.
I've ended up on Reddit. I've found it's not nearly as terrible as people make it out to be, but any conversation has a maximum life of about two days at most; after that the interface makes it basically impossible for meaningful conversation to continue. A really busy topic becomes broken into dozens of threads and impossible to follow within a day, while quieter ones just don't get seen.
Reddit is steadily being further enshittified, though, and it seems pretty clear the objective is to force everyone off the web platform and onto the app. When it becomes to much effort to use without the app, I will move on.
KenzerCo closed their forums down completely, and didn't even leave an archive up. From what I could see, they moved to Facebook of all places. That happened after I had already moved on, though, so didn't really affect me.
I think in general that part is correct that people prefer the one place method. I mean, the way the RPG forums are declining, most people have the same pseudonym at many different sites. That requires setting up accounts elsewhere, and just having to visit many places to get the same amount of conversation that you might have gotten in the past at one location.What I have seen is a decrease in the overall participation in hobby specific message boards that are on their own independent separate websites, but not on ones that are part of larger collections of message boards. Reddit in particular tends to dominate the latter category, and is massively popular. The rpg discussions on Reddit are spread across many many dozens of subreddits (well over 100). See this big incomplete list.
Then there are all the Facebook groups, which aren't quite traditional message boards, but are basically the same thing, with less user-friendly threading. There is no telling how many of those exist, particularly when you consider the ones geared toward local gaming communities.
When it comes to the independent hobby-specific ones (like the Pub, Rpg.net, ENworld, etc.), it is common for them to have a relatively small percentage of people who are responsible for 90% of the posts, so if a couple of those folks move on you may see a huge drop in the number of posts each day. If you get a couple of new prolific posters join, the average number of posts may skyrocket. Overall, though, it is impossible to know whether the changes in the number of posts are in sync with the changes in readership numbers, unless the owner of the website posts those. Far more people read discussion boards than actively participate in them.
Of the various non-Reddit, non-Facebook message boards I frequent, the ones that have seen a big change in the frequency of posts over the last several years seem to be most affected by changes in moderation style or rules in general. That is true across the various hobby categories. Moderation style seems to have had a big effect on the various rpg ones I visit(ed). In other cases, changes to a few basic rules (ex. Fetlife disallowing discussion of a handful of topics) had a much bigger effect than the owners probably predicted.
In the end, though, message boards have always tended to have a limited lifespan. That was true in the 90s, as well. I can remember specific boards that were really, really busy for a couple of years, then just faded away, with no single apparent root cause. I suspect the main reason for Reddit's popularity is that it is a one-stop-shopping type of experience for message board participants and also offers a free, easy way for someone to set up a new board. When participation in one subreddit trails off, it just takes a few minutes for someone else to set up a new one and advertise it to tens of thousands of people. It is also relatively easy for someone new to take over moderation of a board that gets abandoned.
New gamers find the pub, old gamers die
It's the circle of life, man
I suspect this is as true of FB groups as it is of some Reddits as it is of some Discords. Assholes gonna hole no matter the media.Another reason and possibly the elephant in the room is how many forums have turned into echo chambers. Where one must agree 10000% with the rest of the board on a topic of the board. Or one can get unilaterally banned. Moderation is very unfair and one sided.
Why would someone who wants to have an objective discourse or discussion go to such forums.
Beyond here, another side and certain FB groups many are too much of the above. In another topic I mentioned another rpg publisher forum where the words “ crunch and fluff” are no longer allowed to be use. On their forum. Almost everywhere they can be used. I can’t guarantee I will never ever hurt another rpg devs feelings.
I don’t go out of my way to be rude or hurtful if one writes an objectively bad product I will give constructive criticism.
Unfortunately truly open place to have actual discussions online and out or few and far between. Which is why there is a decline.
Well, there’s also active users, meaning the number of different people who log in every day. Since April 24, 2017, the day the Pub opened. In the case of the OGL scandal, it helped the Pub, because our active user number saw a pretty big push. If ever saw this number flatline or go down that would make me worry but fortunately it has only gone up.That doesn't really give all the stats though. For me, it's subjective, but the post count doesn't always tell you everything.
Kenzer Co also has a discordTeamspeak still exists.
I've ended up on Reddit. I've found it's not nearly as terrible as people make it out to be, but any conversation has a maximum life of about two days at most; after that the interface makes it basically impossible for meaningful conversation to continue. A really busy topic becomes broken into dozens of threads and impossible to follow within a day, while quieter ones just don't get seen.
Reddit is steadily being further enshittified, though, and it seems pretty clear the objective is to force everyone off the web platform and onto the app. When it becomes to much effort to use without the app, I will move on.
Discord is ok for casual chatting, which makes sense given it's a chat platform. Everyone else has already covered the issues with discord as a primary repository or knowledge and discussion.
The Pub is pretty much the only forum I frequent these days. I spent a fair bit of time on the Design Mechanism forums from 2013 - 2015 (ish), but the useful discussion is mostly on discord these days and, unfortunately, they got sucked into signing their souls over to Tapatalk, which is forums at their worst. I was on RPGnet for a long time, and it was hard to move on even after I came to despise the place, but once the initial withdrawals passed, I was much better for it. EnWorld was the first forum I spent any time on (just before RPGnet). I returned briefly just recently, but it's not really the place for me any more.
KenzerCo closed their forums down completely, and didn't even leave an archive up. From what I could see, they moved to Facebook of all places. That happened after I had already moved on, though, so didn't really affect me.
At one point Steve Jackson Games had a web forum for their Pyramid magazine subscribers (before they had an openly available, free, web forum). The nice thing about it was that is used the newsnet protocol, so you could log in with a newsreader client, or use a web browser to log into their forum front end. IT was, IMO, the best of both worlds.It just seems like we keep shifting technologies without good reason. The complaints against discord remind me of the similar complaints against web based message boards replacing the Newsgroups. The latter was a superior technology and the clients were great.
I'm pretty sure I post a lot less than I used to. Someone has been picking up my slack and I appreciate it!Well, there’s also active users, meaning the number of different people who log in every day. Since April 24, 2017, the day the Pub opened. In the case of the OGL scandal, it helped the Pub, because our active user number saw a pretty big push. If ever saw this number flatline or go down that would make me worry but fortunately it has only gone up.
View attachment 81509
We averaged 35 members log in every day our first full month. This month we are averaging a record 285 members log in. We hit 100 members a day in 2018 and 200 members a day in 2021. So basically every three years we jump 100 members. Compared to some places this might be peanuts but it’s steady growth. I personally believe the top posters are posting less recently and it’s spread out more than it ever has been before.
I know which people at which forum called the Pub “boring” and that’s rich seeing what that place has become over the last ten years.
All of these... shitposts, will be lost in time, like dice under the couch.
Yeah but aren't we mostly oldsters?