Carrying Capacity & Encumbrance

[hawkeyefan]

So with the idea of a living world in mind, what systems/games do you guys find works well for handling gear selection and load/encumbrance?

My take on it is that there are games that make this somehow engaging without being boring or tedious as hell.

I’ve never found just straight inventory/weight limit kind of systems to be all that engaging or verisimilitudinous. Nor do I find the absence of a flashlight among investigators in a CoC game to be all that sensible either....it seems an oversight more attributable to the player sitting in a living room than to the character who’s about to sneak into a cemetery to dig up a grave.

 

[Black Vulmea]

So with the idea of a living world in mind, what systems/games do you guys find works well for handling gear selection and load/encumbrance?

My take on it is that there are games that make this somehow engaging without being boring or tedious as hell.

Examples? I'd love to see an engaging encumbrance system.

I’ve never found just straight inventory/weight limit kind of systems to be all that engaging or verisimilitudinous.

Speaking as someone who's backpacked, horse- and mule-packed, and canoe-camped, load distribution is at least as important as weight. In theory, slot systems should work extremely well for this, but the few I've seen seem to ignore weight rather than accounting for where and how it's carried.

Nor do I find the absence of a flashlight among investigators in a CoC game to be all that sensible either....it seems an oversight more attributable to the player sitting in a living room than to the character who’s about to sneak into a cemetery to dig up a grave.

Chill's got you covered - every investigator begins with a standard loadout which covers basic necessities for hunting the dead. This should be more common in my experience than it is.

 

[TristramEvans]

Rate items as Light, Easy, or Heavy. A character or creature has a Carrying Capacity (item slots) based on their size - Tiny (1), Small (5), Medium (10), Large (15), etc.

Heavy items take 5 slots, Easy items 1 slot, light items- 1 container of 10-20 per slot. If all slots are filled, the character is Encumbered and takes a -1 modifier to any physical actions.

 

[TJS]

What about if they buy a mule though?

That's my main issue with encumbrance systems, they're so easily circumvented by pack animals.

 

[TristramEvans]

What about if they buy a mule though?

That's my main issue with encumbrance systems, they're so easily circumvented by pack animals.

That's why pack animals exist. But that's a whole host of other issues the PCs have to deal with - feeding, care, the animal refusing to enter dungeons or caves, or running off in a panic if any threatening reatures show up, etc


HROSES (D12 roll)

1. HEY MAN NOT TO BAD! THE HORSE STOPS FOR ONE ROUND TO THINK THING OVER BUT YOU GET CONTROLAG AIN NEXT ROUND.

2. HORES SAYS “FUCK THIS’ AND TRIES TO TOSS YOU LIKE A SALAD- SAVE VERS. DRAGON BREATH OR TAKE 1D6 DAMAGE AND LAND ON YOUR ASS.

3. DON’T BOTHER SAVE THIS TIME– YOU ALREADY FALL OFF!! TAKE 3D4 DAMAGE BECAUSE HE TRAMPLED YOU AND GOOD LUCK CATCHING HIM.

4. THE HORSE DOES NOT LIKE WHAT IS SEE AND A TURNAROUND IS NOW. GO REVERSE DIRECTION FULL SPEED FOR 4D4 ROUNDS.

5. CRAZY HORSE IS A BLOODTHRISRTY PRICK!!!!!!!!!!!! NEXT FIGHT HE CHARGE RIGHT IN AGAINST THE TOUGHEST ENEMY………HOPE YOU CAN HACK IT, HOTSHOT!

6. NEXT TIME YOU TAKE A BRAKE THE HORSE SPLITS TOWN IN THE MIDDEL OF NIGHT. THEN HE SPREADS WORD TO ALL THE HORSES OF THE WORLD – YOU ARE A SHITTY MASTER. NOW NO HORSE WILL SUBMIT TO A RIDE OF YOU…….HOPE YOU LIKE LONG WALKS1.

7. ROUGH RIDE MEANS YOU DROP YOUR COOLEST TOY – VORPAL SWORD, MAGIC 8BALL, FIREBALL WAND, THE DM DESIDES. BETTER GO PICK IT UP QUICK!!!1

8. THE MOST EMBARESSING…….A BATHROOM BRAKE!! YOUR HORSE TAKES A BIG DUMP AND YOU HAVE TO SIT THEIR AND WAIT. ALL YOUR HIRELINKS LAUGH AND THEY TAKE -1 MORAL FOR THE REST OF DAY BECAUE SITTING ON THE POOP HORSE IS NOT A LEADER?!?!?

9. YOUR HORSE PULLS A HAMMY, MOVE IS HALF AND IF YOU BEAT HIM WITH THE FASTER-STICK ROLL AGAIN THREE TIMES AND DO ALL 3 THINGS RESULTS

10. THIS HORSE IS POPULAR AND THE OTHERH ORSES LOOK FOR INSPIRATION. ROLL AGAIN TO FIND WHAT HE DOES, AND THEN ALL THE OTHER HORSES IN SIGHT DO A SAME THING.

11. OH SHIT THATS NOT A HORSE ITSA DOPPLEGANGLER! FIGHT!!!!

12. HORSE EXPLOSDES, TAKE 6D6 DAMAGE AND SAFE VS. DRAGON BREATH OR YOU ON FIRE FOR 1D6 EACH ROUND UNTIL STOP-DROP-AND-ROLL. NOW YOU NEED A NEW HORSE, PARD-NER!

 

[TristramEvans]

(rescuing a worthwhile conversation from shipwreck of a thread)

 

[TJS]

That's why pack animals exist. But that's a whole host of other issues the PCs have to deal with - feeding, care, the animal refusing to enter dungeons or caves, or running off in a panic if any threatening reatures show up, etc

Oh yeah I know. It's just that's why I don't usually bother with a specific encumbrance system, because it usually changes to something else anyway.

Someone could perhaps make an app with little pictures of common items and some generic little bundles and you just put them in a slot on the avatar. This way you could have an image for a person, a mule, a camel, row boat canoe etc. And you could pack and unpack just by dragging items around. This wouldn't necessarily account for weight, but you could add that by having a bar that does automatic calculations for you and goes red when the weight starts getting to heavy.

This is one aspect of gaming that could really be made faster and simpler by technology.

 

[0qualifications]

Yeah, I really think it comes down to just allowing a single person to have a certain amount of items on them at a certain time. It's much better than tracking weight.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Examples? I'd love to see an engaging encumbrance system.

I like some of the OSR systems I’ve seen. Supply rules and the like. Five Torches Deep and Black Hack are the two that spring to mind most immediately for me.

Speaking as someone who's backpacked, horse- and mule-packed, and canoe-camped, load distribution is at least as important as weight. In theory, slot systems should work extremely well for this, but the few I've seen seem to ignore weight rather than accounting for where and how its carried.

Right, most games just kind of plop everything in a backpack, maybe a couple of belt pouches or holsters, and then it’s not really worried about again.

It all seems very video gamey to me.

And honestly, that’s really not a big deal because I find that to be one of the least interesting things about most RPGs. I mean, I get that resource management can and often should be an element, but most systems don’t do that in any meaningful way.

Chill's got you covered - every investigator begins with a standard loadout which covers basic necessities for hunting the dead. This should be more common in my experience than it is.

I agree. I don’t mind some level of abstraction with this stuff. Because I find that the act of engaging with the rules as a player to be analogous to a character having actual carrying capacity concerns in the game world.

This is why I don’t mind something like a basic loadout, or supply rule type abstractions, because I find having this stuff matter at all to be far more engaging and verisimilitudinous (damn that’s tough to type on my phone) than having this stuff not come up at all.

 

[Nobby-W]

[ . . . ]
And honestly, that’s really not a big deal because I find that to be one of the least interesting things about most RPGs. I mean, I get that resource management can and often should be an element, but most systems don’t do that in any meaningful way.

Depends on what you want the game to be about. In something like a post apocalyptic or wilderness crawl setting it would make sense to have to worry about encumbrance. Blades In the Dark is more concerned with how conspicuous you want to be. You can carry varying amounts of stuff depending on how obvious you're prepared to be about it. It has a slots system that interacts with the metagaming mechanics for its schroedinger's loadout system. Depending on how obvious you want to be you get a different number of slots.

I've never seen a slots and weight-per-slot system, although I suppose one could do such a thing.

In other games it might not matter much, especially if you're not routinely spending long in the field away from supplies. Traveller sort of handwaves it with the ship's locker if you have a starship but it has a weight based encumbrance system if you're out in the field. For the S&V games I've been running I just wing it unless the players are in a situation where the slots rules apply.

 

[TJS]

Almost all games seem to assume modern style backpacks which are anachronistic anyway for anything historical.



Also this:

https://themedievalhunt.com/tag/medieval-backpack/

Seriously most PCs who have to leave their horses behind should probably be carrying their saddlebags across their shoulders like characters in a western.

Edit: although something like would seem feasible I guess. But if it's in your pack it's probably not easily reachable. And you would not want to fight while wearing a backpack.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Depends on what you want the game to be about. In something like a post apocalyptic or wilderness crawl setting it would make sense to have to worry about encumbrance. Blades In the Dark is more concerned with how conspicuous you want to be. You can carry varying amounts of stuff depending on how obvious you're prepared to be about it. It has a slots system that interacts with its metagaming mechanics for its schroedinger's loadout system. Depending on how obvious you want to be you get a different number of slots.

I've never seen a slots and weight-per-slot system, although I suppose one could do such a thing.

In other games it might not matter much, especially if you're not routinely spending long in the field away from supplies. Traveller sort of handwaves it with the ship's locker if you have a starship but it has a weight based encumbrance system if you're out in the field. For the S&V games I've been running I just wing it unless the players are in a situation where the slots rules apply.

Absolutely agree that the rules depend on your desired style of play and/or setting and mood that you want for the game.

 

[Spellslinging Sellsword]

Might be of interest to some.

 

[Villein]

At least in Pendragon, it comes up by reminding players that they're never really going anywhere alone, and that there are squires and carriers and sumpters hauling most of their kit, and that they need to be mindful of this.

I really want to run or play in a game that takes encumbrance very seriously at least once, because I usually see it handwaved in one fashion or another, just to see what it's like.

 

[Black Vulmea]

A random walk through the stuff banging around in my head . . .

• As noted upthread, load distribution's at least as important as weight - a well distributed load can be carried farther and more efficiently
• Dray livestock and wagons are the best way to haul stuff before combustion engines, followed by packstock, then by what you can carry on your back
• Encumbrance should impact endurance as well as movement - encumbered beasts or people can't travel as far or as long as they can unencumbered
• Backpacks as we know them are a very late development; the Roman legionary's sarcina, or collection of personal equipment for the march, carried over the shoulder on a furca, a crossed staff, is more representative of how someone carried their kit, and carries down to through time as the peddler's sack or the hobo's bag
• A blanket or animal skin satchel, worn over one shoulder, is another option to the often anachronistic backpack which appears in so many games
• Games never include enough horses: cowboys have their remuda, knights their chargers and rounceys. An equestrian travelling any distance should have a packhorse or mule to carry their kit. Saddle bags just aren't that big, and and every pound you add to your mount besides your own carcass slows them down
• My D&D characters got away from carrying packs; a large sack carried over the shoulder could be shed quickly in a fight or flight situation; when they got a couple of henchmen, then porters became practical
• Volume, volume, volume! One pound of silver coins takes up a lot less space then a pound of griffin down

Okay, so what I want is a system which uses slots based on weight and/or volume, which rewards a well-packed load, and which models not just being weighed down in combat but affects travel over distance, without either the players or the referee spending time counting beans: fit items into classes, as TristramEvans suggested upthread, then assign the classes slots based on how the load is carried, such that a large item is balanced by a medium and a small item. A diagram with lines to fill in?

Now, who can point me to the game that does all that?!

 

[TristramEvans]

I don't know of any RPG like that, TBH.

I will use a detailed supply/encubrance system, basically the effect of what I wrote, when the situation specifically calls for it (an arctic expedition in my Mythos campaign, etc), but it's never the default of play when characters are close to society and scarcity/storage space isn't an issue.

I'd assume it would be appropriate for dungeon delving, but I don't know of a game of that time besides D&D, where Encumbrance seems entirely based on weight rather than space/unweildiness as well.

 

[Brock Savage]

Carrying Capacity & Encumbrance

Handling encumbrance and supplies is of particular interest to me. I too have researched the backpack thing and covered a lot of ground that has been discussed. I can't do a deep dive on this tonight but will return tomorrow to post my thoughts and contribute.

What about if they buy a mule though?

That's my main issue with encumbrance systems, they're so easily circumvented by pack animals.

As other pointed out upthread, riding and pack animals are a whole thing in and of themselves. In addition to all the mundane concerns, I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that animals flee terror around monsters like undead and Mythos creatures. Pack animals need specialists (muleskinners etc) to handle them and mercenaries to protect the camp while the PCs delve into a monster haunted dungeon.

 

[Thanks For The Memories]

I prefer FFG Star Wars, where you have encumbrance ratings for items. It's abstract and takes into account the weight, size and general bulkiness of your gear. Your base encumbrance threshold is 5+Brawn, and each item will have a point value that counts against or adds to your total. Containers add to your threshold, so a Backpack would increase the threshold by 4 where a Blaster Carbine would cost you 3 points. Armor's encumbrance depends on whether you're carrying it or wearing it. Wearing armor reduces the encumbrance by 3 points, so packing around a set of Stormtrooper armor costs you 4 points but wearing it reduces that to 1 point. The same system is used for ship cargo, where a cargo container functions much like a backpack, just with different, usually higher values.

I'm probably not describing it well but I much prefer systems like this rather than worrying about exact weights.

 

[Ravenswing]

Some of us like resource management. (Granted, avid camper here.) And certainly I've yet to see a rules set for the same a fraction as persnickety, and 1/20th the page count, of your average combat system.

One illuminating deal for me was a boffer LARP event that was the only time (alas) anyone did a six-hour closed-gear session. There was no base camp: you had all the gear you could carry, and anything you chose to go without -- including food and water -- you just didn't have. People planned that one out pretty well: a good bit of spare gear was carried in duffle bags or satchels that were easily discarded when a fight broke out. Healers were the pack mules, to give the front line fighters as little encumbrance as practical. Some people brought spare suits of armor -- our system had ablative armor, fixable by a fairly simple spell that nonetheless had a finite number of charges. (Others just didn't bother with heavy mail and shields, in favor of lighter leather and bucklers.) We had a strong contingent of archers, to keep enemy forces at range and buy a few precious extra seconds to offload backpacks and organize the column.

 

[TJS]

A random walk through the stuff banging around in my head . . .

• As noted upthread, load distribution's at least as important as weight - a well distributed load can be carried farther and more efficiently
• Dray livestock and wagons are the best way to haul stuff before combustion engines, followed by packstock, then by what you can carry on your back
• Encumbrance should impact endurance as well as movement - encumbered beasts or people can't travel as far or as long as they can unencumbered
• Backpacks as we know them are a very late development; the Roman legionary's sarcina, or collection of personal equipment for the march, carried over the shoulder on a furca, a crossed staff, is more representative of how someone carried their kit, and carries down to through time as the peddler's sack or the hobo's bag
• A blanket or animal skin satchel, worn over one shoulder, is another option to the often anachronistic backpack which appears in so many games
• Games never include enough horses: cowboys have their remuda, knights their chargers and rounceys. An equestrian travelling any distance should have a packhorse or mule to carry their kit. Saddle bags just aren't that big, and and every pound you add to your mount besides your own carcass slows them down
• My D&D characters got away from carrying packs; a large sack carried over the shoulder could be shed quickly in a fight or flight situation; when they got a couple of henchmen, then porters became practical
• Volume, volume, volume! One pound of silver coins takes up a lot less space then a pound of griffin down

Okay, so what I want is a system which uses slots based on weight and/or volume, which rewards a well-packed load, and which models not just being weighed down in combat but affects travel over distance, without either the players or the referee spending time counting beans: fit items into classes, as TristramEvans suggested upthread, then assign the classes slots based on how the load is carried, such that a large item is balanced by a medium and a small item. A diagram with lines to fill in?

Now, who can point me to the game that does all that?!

I would add that even if you can't afford horses labour is often not that expensive. Just pay some peasants to be porters.

 

[arjunstc]

I don't have one system for all of my campaigns. Generally, I assume that the PCs are relatively competent travelers/packers.

For my sci-fi games, I assume that they have everything that they can reasonably be expected to have. In fact, for these games it is more important to agree on what they do NOT have, like "the starport guards ensure that you do not carry any firearms out".

For fantasy games, it depends on the mood/crunch that we are trying to achieve.

For 5E, most of the time it never comes up - we are more focused on the flow of the story than the accounting. In 5E characters start with a pack for their class, and you can find equipment pack sheets which show the items in a pack in cartoon form. 5E further reduces the incentive for carrying multiple magical items around, since you can only attune a few at any one time. Money is only an issue too at the lower levels - once they have hit level 3 or 4 they are doing stuff not for money, and narratively they have enough for most stuff they want and need, since we don't use spell components, and magic shops are not a thing anymore.

When we played AFF, specifically the Sorcery! campaign, having food becomes important - you lose Stamina if you don't eat at least once a day - as does spell components.

In our current (based on) Five Torches Deep campaign, which is solely a dungeon delve thing, we track encumbrance (each point of STR allows you to carry 1kg of stuff and still do your thing; weapons and armour are given a certain weight, while most items are 1 or 2 kg), and also Supplies. In 5TD a Supply is an undefined resupply for your expendable items, and you decide what that point of SUP on your character sheet represents when you run out of an item; critically, this cannot be something that you did not specifically have at least one of to begin with. I further simplified things by having all SUP to cost 1 GP (the PCs all belong to a guild and the guild store is the only store around) and weigh 2kg. Loot is expressed in weight, and since loot = XPs, the ability to carry loot becomes vitally important, and the party needs to hire a porter. Caching supplies in the dungeon becomes a real option, and when a PC dies and his body needs to be carried back to the guild, they have a real headache on their hands.

 

[Black Vulmea]

I prefer FFG Star Wars, where you have encumbrance ratings for items. It's abstract and takes into account the weight, size and general bulkiness of your gear. Your base encumbrance threshold is 5+Brawn, and each item will have a point value that counts against or adds to your total. Containers add to your threshold, so a Backpack would increase the threshold by 4 where a Blaster Carbine would cost you 3 points. Armor's encumbrance depends on whether you're carrying it or wearing it. Wearing armor reduces the encumbrance by 3 points, so packing around a set of Stormtrooper armor costs you 4 points but wearing it reduces that to 1 point. The same system is used for ship cargo, where a cargo container functions much like a backpack, just with different, usually higher values.

I'm probably not describing it well but I much prefer systems like this rather than worrying about exact weights.

You're describing it perfectly, and this is the kind of abstraction I want. Exact weights and volumes are too much figuring for too little benefit.

Did some reading last night and Daredevils gets me part of the way there; it's got a slot system for different parts of the body. Justice Inc has a nice approach to concealment - does that thing in the slot show? - that I want to adapt for GangBusters. Quite a few of the books I look at say (1) nothing or (2) use your judgement, which I heartily endorse; this is why I want a very visual system that can be applied readily to lots of games without getting deep in the weeds, frex, Item X or up to three Item Ys fit in Slot A.

More reading to do . . .

 

[hawkeyefan]

I think slots or simply X number of items, with particularly large/heavy/cumbersome items counting as two or even three slots, is likely the easiest way to go, with maybe a couple of other things that hook into that. Slots by location is certainly a possibility. Limits based on Strength stat....or maybe Endurance/Constitution makes more sense, ultimately.

Access of items and concealment of items are considerations, for sure. I think some of this depends on what kind of game you’re going for, genre and style etc.

 

[Thanks For The Memories]

Access of items and concealment of items are considerations, for sure. I think some of this depends on what kind of game you’re going for, genre and style etc.

This is another thing I like about FFG Star Wars. If the item itself has the concealed quality then it just imposes a disadvantage on perception checks to detect the item. There are also implants and armor you can get that let you conceal items up to a certain encumbrance value, which fits into that abstract size/weight/bulkiness. R2D2's hidden compartment where they carry Luke's lightsaber is an example of that.

 

[David Johansen]

My encumbrance system is pretty. If you're Stripped, you've got no more than a one handed weapon and the clothes on your back and get a bonus to movement and initiative. If you're Burdened, you've got a full suit of heavy armor or a full back pack and get a penalty to movement an initiative. Otherwise you've got normal encumbrance. Naturally, you can't carry your maximum lift and move around at all. But that's it, outside of GURPS where it's integral and crucial to the combat system I've got no patience for encumbrance.

I don't mind the RMSS encumbrance system but that's mainly because strong characters can carry quite a bit without penalty.

Still, in most of my games I don't give the PCs too much grief if they've got pack horses, mules, and carts.

 

[Ravenswing]

For my part, I don't mind the GURPS system: relatively simple. Each level of encumbrance imposes an increasing penalty on movement and other actions. The levels are different for every character, but they're also defined at creation and pretty much stay fixed.

Alright, so I've got a slight NPC here. She can tote 18 lbs before she goes into Light encumbrance, which she devoutly doesn't want to do. So a stiletto and a brace of throwing knives, and a light knapsack with basics for traveling, and the smallsword she's working on, plus a few pounds for the clothes she's wearing, that's 16.5. Not a whole lot of room for armor, unless she gets rid of the knapsack first.

So ... for how many game systems out there are the numbers and calculations that go into an average battle not several times as complex?

 

[David Johansen]

Yeah, for GURPS there are two things to watch. First is your armour because it will be the bulk of most fighter's encumbrance. The other is to drop your back pack before combat.

 

[Voros]

In this thread I mention the cool little subsystem that the great but sadly defunct Last Gasp Grimoire blog presented for free download here.

 

[hawkeyefan]

So ... for how many game systems out there are the numbers and calculations that go into an average battle not several times as complex?

I hear what you’re saying....but battles are (hopefully) more interesting than what someone is wearing and carrying.

For me, any encumbrance system has to be worth the time spent on it. It’s a juice being worth the squeeze type of thing.

With a simple max weight type system, with degrees of encumbrance based in how much weight a PC is carrying, I find that players find some way for the system to not ever come into play. They either distribute necessities among the group so no one is encumbered, or they get pack animals, or things largely get hand-waved.

The system has to be engaging enough on its own so that it’s an interesting part of the game, or else it needs to be simple enough that it does what you’d like without requiring more attention/mental bandwidth than people want to spend on it.

I mean....there are reasons that Bags Of Holding were one of the earliest magic items, or that 10 foot poles never became a major obstacle when traveling down a cave that was 5 feet wide and 6 feet tall.

 

[Nobby-W]

My encumbrance system is pretty. If you're Stripped, you've got no more than a one handed weapon and the clothes on your back and get a bonus to movement and initiative. If you're Burdened, you've got a full suit of heavy armor or a full back pack and get a penalty to movement an initiative. Otherwise you've got normal encumbrance. Naturally, you can't carry your maximum lift and move around at all. But that's it, outside of GURPS where it's integral and crucial to the combat system I've got no patience for encumbrance.

I don't mind the RMSS encumbrance system but that's mainly because strong characters can carry quite a bit without penalty.

Still, in most of my games I don't give the PCs too much grief if they've got pack horses, mules, and carts.

That would work as an abstraction. In another setting you could go with 'street clothes' and a few pockets that could hold small items, or maybe a concealed weapon. Then you could have 'battle order' - weapons, ammunition, the sort of stuff you might have on webbing, then you could do burdened. These would have conditions that would apply.

 

[Ravenswing]

I hear what you’re saying....but battles are (hopefully) more interesting than what someone is wearing and carrying.

For me, any encumbrance system has to be worth the time spent on it. It’s a juice being worth the squeeze type of thing.

Yeah, but you're talking false equivalence. Seriously -- exactly how much time in your average game session is taken up by encumbrance issues? As much as five minutes? As much as ONE minute? Or are we talking about decisions that when once made, don't need to be revisited on an hourly basis? Sheesh, a lot of players out there take as much time deciding which dice out of the Crown Royal bag they're going to use that day.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Yeah, but you're talking false equivalence. Seriously -- exactly how much time in your average game session is taken up by encumbrance issues? As much as five minutes? As much as ONE minute? Or are we talking about decisions that when once made, don't need to be revisited on an hourly basis? Sheesh, a lot of players out there take as much time deciding which dice out of the Crown Royal bag they're going to use that day.

Sure, this is part of my point. The effort versus what’s earned from the effort.

Tracking weight and all that can often take longer than it’s worth. It can often be something that once players get it, they game it so it’s essentially never a concern. And, I really don’t find most systems to be all that “realistic”.

To me, if that's the point, then I'd rather just handwave it and leave it up to the players.

But if I want inventory to matter to the way the game goes.....then I want some kind of system in place. I think the system should fit what the goal is. So if I'm doing a dungeon delve, OSR type game, then inventory is a pretty big deal, and so is the ability to haul treasure. So I want a rule that makes it easier to deal with, or that's engaging in its own right so that players don't mind when it comes up.

Nor do I mind abstractions or totally alternate mechanics. The way Blades in the Dark does it is fine with me, because it actually creates a series of decision points for the player that makes inventory matter to the player similar to how it matters to a character.

Whatever the system is, I don't want it to be that minimal that it may as well not be there, nor do I want it to be overly complex compared to the portion of the game it will be.

There's some sweet spot that I'd be looking for, and in my opinion, most games don't really find it. But everyone's mileage will vary.

 

[TJS]

Nor do I mind abstractions or totally alternate mechanics. The way Blades in the Dark does it is fine with me, because it actually creates a series of decision points for the player that makes inventory matter to the player similar to how it matters to a character.

You know the way Blades in the Dark does it works pretty well even if you don't use the Schrodinger's aspect of it.

It allows for quick decisions about which gear, out of what is availabe, you take with you.

Eg. If players have pack mules loaded down with stuff and they want to leave the mules and explore an abandoned mine or something like that, you could quickly look at your list, see how heavily burdened you want to be, and just tick the things you're taking with you right now.

Basically it's a useful approach in any game where you want to be able to quickly distinguish what you own or have available from what you are carrying.

 

[hawkeyefan]

You know the way Blades in the Dark does it works pretty well even if you don't use the Schrodinger's aspect of it.

It allows for quick decisions about which gear, out of what is availabe, you take with you.

Eg. If players have pack mules loaded down with stuff and they want to leave the mules and explore an abandoned mine or something like that, you could quickly look at your list, see how heavily burdened you want to be, and just tick the things you're taking with you right now.

I like the Blades system in Blades. I wouldn't mind porting it over to another system if it fit the genre or setting or whatever. I don't know if I'd want it for a dungeon delve treasure haul style game, though.

Something like what you're talking about with the pack animals and so forth tends to be how my players go about things in those kinds of games. It's like there are two lists; "here's what I own" and "here's what I have with me".

 

[James Gillen]

Not a huge fan of Pathfinder 2E, but the encumbrance system is actually pretty simple: encumbrance limit is 5 + your D20 Strength mod (+1 for 12 Str, etc.). Light items count as 1/10 of a unit.

JG

 

[Raleel]

From the depths, as I am thinking about this

So, Mythras imperative has no encumbrance rules, but you take a penalty to initiative from armor equal to armor points. CFI has a fleshed out version of an optional encumbrance rule in the core rule book with objects having a value roughly equal to the hands required to carry or use them. Destined has no encumbrance for weapons, has Bulk for armor that reduces initiative, and weapons can get a trait called Bulky that reduces initiative. Core has what core has.

For cyberpunk, I'm actually considering a concealment system as the primary limiter rather than encumbrance. The limit is social acceptability and legality more than anything else. You don't have to pack rations, any equipment is for a specific section that you likely know about. You have infrastructure to work with. So, you aren't really likely to come anywhere near your strength limit for the most part. However, you can't just walk into Arasaka tower with a BAR or a bag of grenades.

 

[TristramEvans]

However, you can't just walk into Arasaka tower with a BAR or a bag of grenades.

Like, a little Tiki bar?

 

[Voros]

There's at least one game completely dedicated to joys of encumbrance.

DriveThruRPG

preview.drivethrurpg.com

 

[Raleel]

Like, a little Tiki bar?

Browning automatic rifle

 

[robertsconley]

So with the idea of a living world in mind, what systems/games do you guys find works well for handling gear selection and load/encumbrance?

My take on it is that there are games that make this somehow engaging without being boring or tedious as hell.

I’ve never found just straight inventory/weight limit kind of systems to be all that engaging or verisimilitudinous. Nor do I find the absence of a flashlight among investigators in a CoC game to be all that sensible either....it seems an oversight more attributable to the player sitting in a living room than to the character who’s about to sneak into a cemetery to dig up a grave.

There are two questions here.

1) What gear does the character have on them?
The best solution is already out there, loadouts/backpacks/etc.. Sure, provide an equipment list, but also provide a list of remade packages of gear based on the author's experience with the setting/genre.

As for tracking quantity, to me, it has always been obvious when it would matter. Basically, when the group is in a situation cut off from normal resupply, like in a dungeon or traversing the wilderness. Even then, I only have them track what is relevant to the situation, food, ammo, etc. Part of my campaign's appeal is living the life of one's character, and when supply matters, tracking quantities comes into play. Otherwise, it assumed that the players replenish their supplies throughout the normal course of the day.

2) The amount of gear the character has on them
If you have a system with loadout defined, then you have a yardstick by which to judge when a character is encumbered. I have found throughout the decades, Players as a rule, don't like to play accountants tallying their load. In life it is a rare situation (space exploration, extreme adventuring, etc.) where the exact weight of one's gear is accounted for. Most of the time, it is done ad hoc; just keep putting on stuff until it is too heavy or bulky, then adjust.

So that what I do for my Majestic Fantasy rules. For those who want to tally, I provide the numbers. But what I do is eyeball the gear the players are carrying, and when it looks to be too much (like after some major looting), then I will say the characters are penalized for encumbrance. If there is a dispute with my call then we do the tally. But since I tend to err on the player side those disputes are few and far between.

That method, by far, is easiest to implement on an ongoing basis. Having a traditional list of gear with weight and an encumbrance rule is just there to handle the thankfully rare edge cases. A system using slots, while easy, is bullshit, in my opinion, as they are extremely artificial. Most referees I played under using these systems wind up ignoring them except for certain pieces of gear like weapons, armor, magic items, and treasure.
If a player wants to keep a tally and wring out every last bit of advantage from the gear they carry, that's fine. But even those players generally stop after the first few sessions of playing my campaign as they find it is not necessary in most situations to be that exact. Also when there are ready solutions for carrying excess gear like porters and mules.