Dragon Warriors deserves more love

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Moonglum

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I hauled out my Dragon Warriors books the other day and was reminded how boss this game is; I don't understand why it didn't find a bigger seat at the table. It has a great set of monsters, spells and items (the meat of any fantasy roleplaying system), its classes are pretty good, combat is an unusually satisfying variant of D+D-style abstract fighting, and the all-important 'feel' of the game is distinctive and fun, sort of in the way WFRP is.
 
I would favour Dragon Warriors over any older edition of D&D, even my beloved B/X D&D.

The new books were excellent as well. I need to give the Player’s Companion a go as the three new professions really help fill out the options.
 
I suspect Dragon Warrior's odd paperback books and lack of strong push beyond British shores are the main reasons it never caught on elsewhere.

I don't recall it being republished with any fanfare until the big books came out about a decade ago. They didn't stay in print long either.
 
The new edition is what I've used and was referring to; they are really great. The art and writing are terrific, and the presentation of the system in one coherent hardcover should meet the standards of any modern gamer.
 
I just stumbled on to it earlier this year and it is indeed great. The system is fine, but it's the bestiary, setting, supplements and adventures where it really shines. I constantly mine these books for the Dolmenwood/Magic World campaign I'm currently doing ground work and conversion for.

It really captures the eerie and dark aesthetics of European folkore that I like so well in my fantasy games and fiction.
 
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Malleustein said:
I suspect Dragon Warrior's odd paperback books and lack of strong push beyond British shores are the main reasons it never caught on elsewhere.
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To contradict that, the paperback format gave it far more reach than it might otherwise have. The books were not limited to just speciality game stores as they were available on the shelves of main street book chain stores and. In the UK, New Zealand and Australia, they were many people's first RPG thanks to the Fighting Fantasy craze.

Malleustein said:
I don't recall it being republished with any fanfare until the big books came out about a decade ago. They didn't stay in print long either.
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They are available via DTRPG on PoD which is comparable to other RPGs of its type.
 
Mike Mearls did a great review on LiveJournal, which now seems to be have been eaten by the internet. The only quote I could find:

"If I had found this back in the day, I would've dropped D&D for it."
 
This is the one set in Titan or is that FF?
 
That is FF. Dragon Warriors is set in a world called Legend. The gamebooks Bloodsword were also set in the same world. Essentially, its more medieval Europe steeped in folklore.

The latest version of the rulebook looks like:
90926.jpg


The old version looks like:
DragonWarriors1.jpg
 
Titan is the world that Fighting Fantasy is set in. Gotta love Titan's art direction, which feels like a mix of Brian Froud meets Terry Pratchett. Titan rocked, but yep, it's not Dragon Warriors.

As an Australian, we had lots of UK imports as well as USA imports, so a reasonable ammount of british fantasy gamebooks made it to our shelves

I never had Dragon Warriors, but a friend of mine had the books back in the 1980s, which he swears they were so much better than D&D at the time - which I tend to agree. It was when both versions of TSR D&D (BECMI and AD&D) just seemed to be morphing into an increasing number of splat boxes and conflicting rules, as well as proliferating settings. Some of us just wanted B/X-style dungeon crawling, but that era of D&D was already begining to pass.

By comparison, Dragon Warriors was appealing in that it covered the same ground with more consistent rules, and with its setting of The World of Legend, it had a strong 'british fantasy' aesthetic which appealed to myself, having already collected so many FF gamebooks as my introduction to the rpg hobby.

I used to read my mate's DW books quite a bit. Not sure why I never got myself a copy, but I was in a small town and once stock ran out at the local bookstore, that was pretty much it.

I would really love to see DW re-released in the earlier gamebook size (or even a digest-sized hardcover), with lots of the original internal artwork, if only for nostalgia purposes :thumbsup:
 
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Goddamn it, I love Dragon Warriors. I got the six paperbacks when I was in London in '85 and I was probably one of a half-dozen people in the US who played it in the 80's. Perhaps I exaggerate. IMO the rules have aged very well. The setting is fantastic because the authors really knew their history, which they cribbed with barely a pretense. To me, it captured the spirit of what we now call old-school play better than anything that was actually out at the time.

In fact, now that I think about it, this might be just the game to run for a pack of newbies.
Mankcam said:
I would really love to see DW re-released in the earlier gamebook size (or even a digest-sized hardcover), with lots of the original internal artwork, if only for nostalgia purposes :thumbsup:
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A million times yes. The new books are fine but the old books dripped with atmosphere. I still have mine (actually in line of sight).
 
Edgewise Edgewise Well I reckon it's potentially Knave or Dragon Warriors for you.

Knave works in that its a really simple version of D&D that you can do whatever you want. Plus you can easily run D&D modules with it, and port opponents in from any of the monster manuals.

Dragon Warriors is marginally more complex, but still very much a game in the lite end of town.

The Dragon Warriors core book certainly is more meat-on-the-bone than Knave, which is either good or bad, depending upon your perspective.

However there is overall much less resources for Dragon Warriors, which may possibly be where Knave wins out, being essentially D&D and having potentially endless resources and scenarios to crib from.

Despite such, Dragon Warriora definately has great atmosphere and the setting of Legend is very open-world. Such a great vibe rocking with those old books; hopefully the more recent edition also captures some of that.

You can't go wrong either way :thumbsup:
 
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Mankcam said:
I would really love to see DW re-released in the earlier gamebook size (or even a digest-sized hardcover), with lots of the original internal artwork, if only for nostalgia purposes :thumbsup:
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While I wouldn't say no to such books, Dragon Warriors has already been blessed with one of the best and most loving revivals of an old RPG property IMO. The new books contain all the same content organised more coherently and with some of the best atmospheric art and covers out there. If you haven't already looked into them, and are a fan of Dragon Warriors, you should seriously consider doing so.
 
Skywalker said:
While I wouldn't say no to such books, Dragon Warriors has already been blessed with one of the best and most loving revivals of an old RPG property IMO. The new books contain all the same content organised more coherently and with some of the best atmospheric art and covers out there. If you haven't already looked into them, and are a fan of Dragon Warriors, you should seriously consider doing so.
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I'm already onto it, and considering purchase, depending upon shipping costs. If I could find it locally then I would likely already have it. But I'll at least have the pdf soon, and be checking it out over the weekend :thumbsup:
 
The contents are almost word for word from the original, except for a few places where they have clarified or combined the material. They have also rebalanced a couple of well know glaring issues, such as the Air Elementalist's first rank spell, and extend the skills available to Knights and Barbarians at high ranks.

The adventure in the core book is also excellent, and as dark and as creepy as the originals.

Though the Bestiary is a must have corebook (combining all the bestiaries into one), I also recommend the Player's Guide. It came at the end of the latest version. Though it lacks the art quality of the rest of the line, it adds the Priest, the Knave and the Hunter, to give three more non-magic options for PCs other than the Knight and Barbarian. My only criticism of the original is that though the world is presented as low magic, 4 of the 7 classes were magic using. You can find it here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/141930/Dragon-Warriors-Players-Guide
 
Skywalker said:
Ah crap. I just noticed on DTRPG, that all the supplements are available as POD hardcovers. Looks like my 4th time of buying the line (including twice for the originals :smile:)
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I think that will work for me, as DTRPG shipping costs usually tend to be reasonable - I will certainly take a look
 
FWIW the original hardcover printed by Mongoose was pf a really excellent quality. The POD from DTRPG will be fine too and includes a little bit of errata IIRC.

However, I would grab the supplements POD hardcover.
 
Talking about the art, this is my favourite of the covers. I just love the trees standing in witness on the rise behind, and how it shows so clearly what dungeon crawling in Dragon Warriors is all about. The placement of the image and lighting is really excellent.

Sleeping_Gods.jpg
 
I think that's the same artist (name eludes me at present) who has done covers for OpenQuest, Crypt & Things, Beyond The Wall, and The One Ring.
Nice stuff, very fable-fantasy flavour
 
I also love this cover and its depiction of how gruesome it would be to meet a dragon.

a32642505f7a0119209cd6ad0c58e81c.jpg


Despite the Knight being under fire, he looks like such a fucking badass for doing it, compared to his more heroic D&D equivalent :grin: You can really see him bracing against the impact.

1634e73f6ac2b9ea05e74df94e981e04.jpg
 
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Mankcam said:
Titan is the world that Fighting Fantasy is set in. Gotta love Titan's art direction, which feels like a mix of Brian Froud meets Terry Pratchett. Titan rocked, but yep, it's not Dragon Warriors.
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While I love Titan, you're right that it's not Legend. Both share certain gonzo sensibilities, but Legend is about British mythology and the things that lurk in the woods. Where Titan is all about epic heroic battles between good and evil. You see that best with their antagonists. Dragon Warrior villains are ambitious and often petty. Fighting Fantasy villains are full on mustache twirling evilllllll guys.
 
Skywalker said:
Yes, its Jon Hodgson. He adored Dragon Warriors and is one of the team at Serpent King.
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Jon Hodgson - yeah that's it, of course, my apologies. He outdid himself with The One Ring rpg. In many ways his artwork sold that entire line of The One Ring books.
Love his work, he knows his craft and what works for fantasy
 
Black Leaf said:
While I love Titan, you're right that it's not Legend. Both share certain gonzo sensibilities, but Legend is about British mythology and the things that lurk in the woods. Where Titan is all about epic heroic battles between good and evil. You see that best with their antagonists. Dragon Warrior villains are ambitious and often petty. Fighting Fantasy villains are full on mustache twirling evilllllll guys.
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There is a visual link to them as well, as Russ Nicholson was relatively instrumental in illustrating both.
 
Yep. He also worked on the revamp of Lone Wolf and Warhammer also. None of his work shows the extent of love he gave to Dragon Warriors and One Ring IMO, and from what he was saying he considered those two the pinnacle of what he wanted to illustrate in this industry.
 
Definitely. The first is great.

I was more meaning the amount of care that has gone into capturing the vibe of the original cover but with Jon's own style.
 
Moonglum said:
I hauled out my Dragon Warriors books the other day and was reminded how boss this game is; I don't understand why it didn't find a bigger seat at the table. It has a great set of monsters, spells and items (the meat of any fantasy roleplaying system), its classes are pretty good, combat is an unusually satisfying variant of D+D-style abstract fighting, and the all-important 'feel' of the game is distinctive and fun, sort of in the way WFRP is.
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Since I can’t like twice 1000% agree. I only encountered DW when released most recently. I love the attack/defend; sneak/perceive; etc set up. Good way to differentiate classes. Also like how they handle armor with a by pass roll. If I’d only encountered it in the day instead of the 21st century
 
I picked up the line when it was offered in a bundle of holding awhile back. Looking forward to playing it some time.
 
I love Dragon Warriors. I grabbed the new complete book when it came out a few years ago and folks who say it's a solid rulebook are 100% correct. One of my favourite scenarios ever published in White Dwarf was actually for DW: A Box of Old Bones.

My copy of DW is in my huge RPG collection that's presently on a ship heading to New Zealand, but I'll be digging it out once it gets here.

Cheers,
Cam
 
I am! Moved back here in December with my family for good. Now I'm doing contract game design and development as well as getting my company off the ground so I can finish the Cortex Prime Kickstarter and do a lot of other things in a better climate.

Cheers,
Cam
 
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