Dungeon Craft (on YouTube Algorithms and other topics)

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Haven't watched the video bc of gripe with his sloppiness (I give Dungeon and discourse a pass for being funny). But in general the edge of slop content in terms of revenues is overestimated. Getting views from clickbait =/= building up a profile & revenue online. Can be but not necessarily. W/ good engagement and patreon etc there are full time youtuber who earn well while effort posting once in a blue moon.

So while I can empathize w/ needing money, even on today's youtube, taking the hack path isn't necessary.
 
Also some # seem less clogged/saturated/whatever than others. I consistently get small channels in recommendation after watching vids from art channels.
 
sharps54 said:
Look, another click bait video from Prof DM :cry:
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A few others like if I recall Ben at Questing Beast are also fucking around with their video titles to screw with YouTube's Algorithms. Not sure what video is about yet as I've yet to watch/listen to it. But I'm betting the title is the click bait part since he and others are growing really tired of the whole YouTube bullshit Algorithm.

Wait, you didn't watch it but you shared it? His videos tend to be rather short, anything less than 15 minutes for me is a short video. Long videos I might pass unless something catches my eye, long being 40 or more minutes. I guess my question to you would be, what's your point? You can't possibly have an opinion on his video if you didn't watch/listen to it?
 
Acmegamer said:
A few others like if I recall Ben at Questing Beast are also fucking around with their video titles to screw with YouTube's Algorithms. Not sure what video is about yet as I've yet to watch/listen to it. But I'm betting the title is the click bait part since he and others are growing really tired of the whole YouTube bullshit Algorithm.
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If I don’t know what your video is about I’m less likely to give it a shot
 
sharps54 said:
If I don’t know what your video is about I’m less likely to give it a shot
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Yeah, I just don't get why you shared it? I don't tend to share something I've not read or watched and if I do post something I've not read or watched I'll at least give some explanation as to why I'm sharing it.

Something like, this looks interesting and I plan on reading/watching it, anyone else have an opinion on this?

Your coming off like you've repeatedly made up your mind/opinion and yet your ignorant to what it's about because you can't be bothered to watch/read whatever your posting. I find that fucking odd.
 
Acmegamer said:
Yeah, I just don't get why you shared it? I don't tend to share something I've not read or watched and if I do post something I've not read or watched I'll at least give some explanation as to why I'm sharing it.

Something like, this looks interesting and I plan on reading/watching it, anyone else have an opinion on this?

Your coming off like you've repeatedly made up your mind/opinion and yet your ignorant to what it's about because you can't be bothered to watch/read whatever your posting. I find that fucking odd.
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This whole thread is about Dungeon Craft and YouTube, he posted a new video with a clickbait title. That seemed relevant.
 
I think in a field like RPG videos for GMs, chasing the algorithm is mistake. It's too small a community. If you want to make money on clickbait, make videos getting angry about the latest Star Wars show or whatever dumb thing a politician said today. Those are big enough topics that you can hope to keep finding new people to fall for your titles.

PDM can point to the larger numbers on his hot topic videos, but I think that's going to be diminishing returns in the long run. In small scene, it's more valuable to have a good relationship with subscribers than count on the algorithm to put you on a lot of front pages.
 
Baulderstone said:
I think in a field like RPG videos for GMs, chasing the algorithm is mistake. It's too small a community. If you want to make money on clickbait, make videos getting angry about the latest Star Wars show or whatever dumb thing a politician said today. Those are big enough topics that you can hope to keep finding new people to fall for your titles.

PDM can point to the larger numbers on his hot topic videos, but I think that's going to be diminishing returns in the long run. In small scene, it's more valuable to have a good relationship with subscribers than count on the algorithm to put you on a lot of front pages.
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I agree. (And hello!) If I relied on clickbait, I’d be… well, broke and miserable, I suppose. I like Prof DM a lot (I know him personally), and he’s been very transparent about his feelings on the whole YouTube algorithm shenanigans. He’s been straight up in his explanations for why he uses clickbait titles. Hilariously, he’ll almost immediately flip the script in the actual video and start talking about something of actual consequence.

But you’re totally right, Baulderstone. I firmly believe that in my case at least, I’m still getting supporters, Patrons and new subscribers because I try to deliver an honest product. I think in this era of endless digital cynicism, there’s something to be said about authenticity. I think people are starved for it.
 
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Devil said:
I agree. (And hello!) If I relied on clickbait, I’d be… well, broke and miserable, I suppose. I like Prof DM a lot (I know him personally), and he’s been very transparent about his feelings on the whole YouTube algorithm shenanigans. He’s been straight up in his explanations for why he uses clickbait titles. Hilariously, he’ll almost immediately flip the script in the actual video and start talking about something of actual consequence.

But you’re totally right, Baulderstone. I firmly believe that in my case at least, I’m still getting supporters, Patrons and new subscribers because I try to deliver an honest product. I think in this era of endless digital cynicism, there’s something to be said about authenticity. I think people are starved for it.
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I'm not fussed about authenticity, I want quality.

And you're right, I will pay for that quality.
 
sharps54 said:
I’ve had numerous problems with payment processing and while the details are outside the scope of this forum I also have an issue with them arbitrarily deplatforming some non RPG creators.
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Ah, ok, so it's a problem with Patreon management, rather than the idea-in-principle.

That makes a lot more sense than "How dare someone enable me to provide cash incentives to a creator I like." :smile:
 
Voros said:
I'm not fussed about authenticity, I want quality.

And you're right, I will pay for that quality.
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Over the years I've been producing content for YouTube, it's been my experience that quality and authenticity very often go hand in hand. I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly strive for both in my work.
 
Devil said:
I agree. (And hello!) If I relied on clickbait, I’d be… well, broke and miserable, I suppose. I like Prof DM a lot (I know him personally), and he’s been very transparent about his feelings on the whole YouTube algorithm shenanigans. He’s been straight up in his explanations for why he uses clickbait titles. Hilariously, he’ll almost immediately flip the script in the actual video and start talking about something of actual consequence.

But you’re totally right, Baulderstone. I firmly believe that in my case at least, I’m still getting supporters, Patrons and new subscribers because I try to deliver an honest product. I think in this era of endless digital cynicism, there’s something to be said about authenticity. I think people are starved for it.
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It's funny you should show up. When I was writing the post you are replying to, I had a longer version in my head, but something came up, and I had to go with a truncated version. I was going to point to you and Seth Skorkowsky as two people that do it right. You guys are actually showing or talking about actual play. I get a lot out of watching you working your way through a solo session or watching Seth give a review of an adventure where he details what actually happened when he ran it. All your content comes from your table rather than dredging the internet for drama.

I like Professor DM as well. He's a smart guy who often has interesting things to say about RPG drama, but I like his channel best when he is talking about what happened at his table.
 
Devil said:
Over the years I've been producing content for YouTube, it's been my experience that quality and authenticity very often go hand in hand. I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly strive for both in my work.
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Which is your youtube channel?
 
I watched his new video while I was making tacos last night. It’s fine. He’s talking about a poll on D&D and what his answers would be. It probably fills a gap between videos of more substance. I tend to watch my favorite people on YouTube, not random videos, and will watch just about anything they do.
 
To add to my last post about Me, Myself and Die, I find it useful even though I have no real interest in solo playing solo RPGs. My issue with most actual plays is that the thing I am most interested in is what is happening in the GM's head. In a typical actual-play video, the GM has to keep his poker face on, so I'm not getting much insight into their process. As Trevor is both player and GM, he can monologue the GMing part of his thought process as he goes.
 
I really like those Sage’s Library videos. I watched his intro carefully to see if he had many super games on his shelves (I did see V&V); I was hoping maybe he had some cool insights if he had played those over the years. I’m biased too as they are my favorite games.
 
Baulderstone said:
It's funny you should show up. When I was writing the post you are replying to, I had a longer version in my head, but something came up, and I had to go with a truncated version. I was going to point to you and Seth Skorkowsky as two people that do it right. You guys are actually showing or talking about actual play. I get a lot out of watching you working your way through a solo session or watching Seth give a review of an adventure where he details what actually happened when he ran it. All your content comes from your table rather than dredging the internet for drama.

I like Professor DM as well. He's a smart guy who often has interesting things to say about RPG drama, but I like his channel best when he is talking about what happened at his table.
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Don't know who Devil Devil is, but I'll take your word for it since you placed them in the same company as Seth Skorkowsky. Whose YouTube videos I look forward to each time he releases one. Seth is one of the main reasons I still open up YouTube.

Edit: !!!! Oh!!! He's Trevor! Well hell. Yeah another one of the great reasons to open up YouTube. A fellow after my own heart since he enjoys the same type gaming. His actual plays are probably my favorite on YouTube.
 
Acmegamer said:
Don't know who Devil Devil is, but I'll take your word for it since you placed them in the same company as Seth Skorkowsky. Whose YouTube videos I look forward to each time he releases one. Seth is one of the main reasons I still open up YouTube.
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Yesterday's video was a good one. I particularly related to the part about the number thrower.
 
Baulderstone said:
Yesterday's video was a good one. I particularly related to the part about the number thrower.
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I'm about a week behind and catching up to the subs I have. I'll have to jump his video to the top of queue then. I'd not have even watch PDM's video if Sharp hasn't mentioned it. I've got a few longer motorcycle videos that were still head of both of them and Ben at Questing Beasts video. (Wanders off to watch Trevor)

Odd, I don't see a new one up from yesterday. The last one I see is from 10 days ago. I'm also subbed with notifications, but I've repeatedly seen where YouTube didn't put a notification in my alerts. :sad: Which is why I tend to check the video tab itself to see if there is a new unwatched one.

1711120736940.png
 
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Acmegamer said:
I'm about a week behind and catching up to the subs I have. I'll have to jump his video to the top of queue then. I'd not have even watch PDM's video if Sharp hasn't mentioned it. I've got a few longer motorcycle videos that were still head of both of them and Ben at Questing Beasts video. (Wanders off to watch Trevor)

Odd, I don't see a new one up from yesterday. The last one I see is from 10 days ago. I'm also subbed with notifications, but I've repeatedly seen where YouTube didn't put a notification in my alerts. :sad: Which is why I tend to check the video tab itself to see if there is a new unwatched one.

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Thanks for watching, my friend - but I think Baulderstone was referring to Seth's latest video. And it's a good one!
 
Endless Flight said:
I really like those Sage’s Library videos. I watched his intro carefully to see if he had many super games on his shelves (I did see V&V); I was hoping maybe he had some cool insights if he had played those over the years. I’m biased too as they are my favorite games.
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Alas, I was never a superhero fan, so I can't really speak to it, I'm afraid. (It's therefore not a little ironic that so much of my voiceover career has been spent playing superheroes... when I first starting working on "Avengers Assemble" I literally had no idea who anyone was.)
 
Baulderstone said:
To add to my last post about Me, Myself and Die, I find it useful even though I have no real interest in solo playing solo RPGs. My issue with most actual plays is that the thing I am most interested in is what is happening in the GM's head. In a typical actual-play video, the GM has to keep his poker face on, so I'm not getting much insight into their process. As Trevor is both player and GM, he can monologue the GMing part of his thought process as he goes.
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That is a very interesting angle that I'd never considered before. Thanks for the insight :smile:
 
Devil said:
That is a very interesting angle that I'd never considered before. Thanks for the insight :smile:
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Yep, sharing what's in the GM's head and walking through the mechanics are big for me as well. Most actual plays are more akin to free form theatre and the players and GM aren't breaking down what's going on mechanically which isn't my cup of tea.


Edit: Baulderstone Baulderstone Nice, my wife is also a fan of Seth's videos and she's not a ttrpg player or GM, though she is GM but in the online gaming forum, so there is a crossover.
 
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I wonder if there is a way that YouTubers could do something like the old 'Web Ring' or the bloggers' 'Blog Roll' of blogs... refer us to other sympatico channels they like. I know some will put links to other content under their video (though I haven't seen anyone do the any reply videos for quite a while), but I'm thinking of something more overt/obvious that wouldn't require work to maintain across all your vids. Bypass the algorithm by guiding us straight to recommended crossover content.
 
Mangoplum said:
I wonder if there is a way that YouTubers could do something like the old 'Web Ring' or the bloggers' 'Blog Roll' of blogs... refer us to other sympatico channels they like. I know some will put links to other content under their video (though I haven't seen anyone do the any reply videos for quite a while), but I'm thinking of something more overt/obvious that wouldn't require work to maintain across all your vids. Bypass the algorithm by guiding us straight to recommended crossover content.
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It would be cool if Youtube had curation lists the way Steam does.
 
Mangoplum said:
I wonder if there is a way that YouTubers could do something like the old 'Web Ring' or the bloggers' 'Blog Roll' of blogs... refer us to other sympatico channels they like. I know some will put links to other content under their video (though I haven't seen anyone do the any reply videos for quite a while), but I'm thinking of something more overt/obvious that wouldn't require work to maintain across all your vids. Bypass the algorithm by guiding us straight to recommended crossover content.
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Collabs, shoutouts etc still work well and YT has a functionality where you can link other channels on the channel main page, though you've got to scroll down usually and many people don't use it or only for their own side projects.
eg channel SandRhomanHistory :

fzfe.png
IIRC you can also use the links at the end of the video to link random videos from a playlist, including from other people. These end of video links also have to be set manually regardless - though it's really simple. You can also insert links to other videos at any point in your vids very easily.

It could be improved but I fear it really boils down to creators not using the tools they have for whatever reason. I'd guess the main ones to be 1) disinterest, surely not helped by the increasing industrialization of content - ie the youtuber on screen might not even be the person that uploads the videos, or ever interact with the interface ; and 2) increasing multiplatform use, eg. their main gig is apple podcast and they just post of YT as a side thing.
 
also there's the whole streaming industry that really became dominant recently and the way big streamer can innundate YT is something I find really annoying

essentially if you're a big enough streamer you can start to content farm yourself by having one (or more) people under you constantly cutting and posting stream bits on YT and generally speaking it's a giant mill of shit content
 
Baulderstone said:
PDM can point to the larger numbers on his hot topic videos, but I think that's going to be diminishing returns in the long run. In small scene,
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Well he has certainly lost me as a viewer with this behaviour.
There is more content than anyone could ever watch, I'll
stick to things that have established quality. PDM used to
be there for me, he has dropped out.
 
from the ENWorld thread :
The hobby game sales channel is defined as specialist game and card stores--it doesn't include Amazon, direct sales, etc. It does include Kickstarter.
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They're shifting gear of course they sell less on the less scummy profitable market model they just abandoned. Last financial info from wizturd (feb 2024) :
opojopj.jpg

source : https://hasbro.gcs-web.com/news-rel...s-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2023-financial

(btw Endless Flight Endless Flight
ljljljk.jpg
)

Also from the en thread :
The only two categories to grow in 2023 were collectibles and miniatures. All other categories--board games, card games, and roleplaying games--were down. ICv2 reports a 30% hobby store sales decline for Dungeons & Dragons specifically, citing the impending new edition and lackluster movie performance, and the tail end of a pandemic-fuelled high; they also report that while the OGL crisis of last year impacted some lifestyle gamers, newer players as a whole were oblivious to the situation. The other important element ICv2 mentioned was D&D's increasing move to digital, which impacted retail sales.
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That's concerning. With shillfluencers back on the threadmill and only old farts really giving a fuck, wizturd might get away with this.
 


Professor DM said something in this video that I agree with but some consider blasphemy (I’m thinking of one friendly sitcom star in particular). He said and I quote:

I’ve never understood the hatred toward “story-gaming”, whatever that means. Like, all these game are stories.
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