Games you failed your saving throw against

[pawsplay]

Kickstarters, bundles, and all manner of new releases that left you with indigestion.

I'll start. The new Trinity/Adventure! Kickstarter. I just got my last books in the mail, and I was filled with unhappiness being reminded of its existence. The rules are a byzantine, unplayable mess, a complete disappointment to what I was expecting.

 

[RangerRupert]

Cortex Plus (not Prime). Looked great on paper, bought a whole bunch of Leverage and Firefly stuff, eventually figured out that I don't own enough d8s to run it ...

 

[pawsplay]

You can put me down for Cortex Prime, actually. I backed it. What I got was... not what I hoped for. If I'm going to spend that much time configuring and hacking a system, I want to be able to distribute it wherever I want, maybe make a little dough on it. I still get these regular emails about content they release for it, like I'm going to log on there all the time to get other people's content.

 

[Kage2020]

FATE (distros). Powered by the Apocalypse. Savage Worlds.

I keep on buying them because all of the fans tell me that they are the "awesomez", but in the end I get almost literally nothing from them.

I think that my general problem is that I'm more setting-focused than system-focused. In the past I've supported things like Of Dreams and Magic, Cortex Prime, and some Savage Worlds materials (among others). These end up being more aspirational things---things that I would love to love.

In the end? I'll just use the system that makes more sense to me.

 

[Bunch]

Talislanta. Both of the recent KS's I went either all in or one tier down from all in. I think I've played it maybe five times since 1st edition. I own almost everything published for it in dead tree form. I love the idea.

 

[pawsplay]

I think that my general problem is that I'm more setting-focused than system-focused. In the past I've supported things like Of Dreams and Magic, Cortex Prime, and some Savage Worlds materials (among others). These end up being more aspirational things---things that I would love to love.

In the end? I'll just use the system that makes more sense to me.

That's funny to me because, while I know someone people really like the Savage Worlds system for exactly what it is, what I like about it is that it's a fast-paced, high action system that mostly gets out of the way.

 

[RangerRupert]

Can I ask a dumb question? Well, I'm going to anyway ...

I know what FATE is. What's the "distros" part?

 

[CaoCao]

FATE (distros). Powered by the Apocalypse. Savage Worlds.

I keep on buying them because all of the fans tell me that they are the "awesomez", but in the end I get almost literally nothing from them.

I think that my general problem is that I'm more setting-focused than system-focused. In the past I've supported things like Of Dreams and Magic, Cortex Prime, and some Savage Worlds materials (among others). These end up being more aspirational things---things that I would love to love.

In the end? I'll just use the system that makes more sense to me.

It took me a lot understanding that a single Fate and a single Pbta are everything is needed to play such systems. I'm totally with you

 

[robb]

All my purchasing decisions are perfect!

Hmmm, TBH I have probably bought far too many OSR adventures and RPG bundles than I can ever use or even read.
Most of them are in PDF and for small amounts so maybe not too big a degree of remorse.

For things I have spent serious amounts on, I think the Guide to Glorantha is probably the worst purchase I have made
as I just am not interested in digesting buckets of lore. I much prefer cool maps and terse, vibrant details around
which I can improvise.

 

[AsenRG]

OSR games, especially rulebooks. I can use adventures, I can use Referee-oriented materials...but all my attempts to run those with their native systems, have failed miserably.
It is no doubt my fault, and I have decided to stop trying to overcome the issue. There's enough systems that already work the way I expect them to, and I can always adapt Ref-facing OSR materials, I ain't losing anything - and frankly, neither is the OSR!

Can I ask a dumb question? Well, I'm going to anyway ...

I know what FATE is. What's the "distros" part?

+1 to that...

Kickstarters, bundles, and all manner of new releases that left you with indigestion.

I'll start. The new Trinity/Adventure! Kickstarter. I just got my last books in the mail, and I was filled with unhappiness being reminded of its existence. The rules are a byzantine, unplayable mess, a complete disappointment to what I was expecting.

I expect to see more than a few of the same publishers...

FATE (distros). Powered by the Apocalypse. Savage Worlds.

I keep on buying them because all of the fans tell me that they are the "awesomez", but in the end I get almost literally nothing from them.

I think that my general problem is that I'm more setting-focused than system-focused. In the past I've supported things like Of Dreams and Magic, Cortex Prime, and some Savage Worlds materials (among others). These end up being more aspirational things---things that I would love to love.

In the end? I'll just use the system that makes more sense to me.

Man, if you're setting-focused, getting narrative games really doesn't pay off most of the time, IME.

They expect you to make up the setting in such a way that it adds to the drama, not to have a setting that produces drama.

Talislanta. Both of the recent KS's I went either all in or one tier down from all in. I think I've played it maybe five times since 1st edition. I own almost everything published for it in dead tree form. I love the idea.

...not one I expected to see in this thread!

OK, if I get a holiday this summer and am not in the villa, I'll run a Talislanta session for you!

 

[Zimzerveran]

Can I ask a dumb question? Well, I'm going to anyway ...

I know what FATE is. What's the "distros" part?

It's a spin on Fate. That is, a setting that did something with the base system and changed it in some way. Eagle Eyes, Atomic Robo, Dresden Files, Spirit of the Century, etc. are all powered by Fate but very specific implementations of that system.

If you're familiar with Linux operating systems, they're all referred to as Distros. They're all Linux at the core. But they all do something different. Ubuntu, Red Hat, Fedora, Debian... They're all Linux Distros.

 

[Malckuss]

You can put me down for Cortex Prime, actually. I backed it. What I got was... not what I hoped for. If I'm going to spend that much time configuring and hacking a system, I want to be able to distribute it wherever I want, maybe make a little dough on it. I still get these regular emails about content they release for it, like I'm going to log on there all the time to get other people's content.

I still like CP for what it does, especially as I participated in the G+ conversations leading to Cortex Prime's inception. I still like Cam Banks. But that KS campaign. I am tired of it changing hands. I am especially tired of the empty promises for software and a marketplace and the ability to sell games I build with it.

Fate Core was the KS campaign that just kept giving, but my preferred version of Fate was the original Dresden Files TTRPG.

Edit: Forgot to finish this thought. As part of the KS for Fate Core, we got an update to the Dresden Files...as Dresden Files Accelerated, which while had some really cool concepts I backported, used Accelerated as a base, which has characters that pretty much all look and function the same save which feats - I'm sorry, stunts - they have.

In the past I've supported things like Of Dreams and Magic...

Oh, man, I thought I was the only person who bought Of Dreams and Magic.

Unlike many here, I love narrative systems. They do what I want for the most part, all I need is my sheet, my dice, and my imagination; I don't need to constantly reference the book, dig out minis or maps or other weird tchotchkes (but I still have a few of those, too). But some still hit me wrong, are too hand-wavy, or use weird, proprietary dice I cannot use with other games, etc.

I like playing PbtA; I have a friend who runs an amazing game of Masks, and we have had some really cool things with Urban Shadows 1E and the 2E playtest materials. But I will never run PbtA. I went all in on Avatar: Legends because I love Avatar: The Last Airbender and thought it might be a great game to play with my 'niece.' Yeah, no. It's a mess that makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I backed Galaxies in Peril, because (even though it is PbtA) Worlds in Peril was my jam. Even though I love Forged in the Dark, GiP (more like GIMP) hits me wrong; I hate all of the playbooks. It isn't how I would do a superheroic version of FitD.

Second Edit: For those who looked at FitD and thought, " I kinda like this, but..." take a look at Wildsea. The author refers to it as the Wild Words engine, but its heart is FitD, however it has a more traditional method of building characters and while narrative, has more mechanical widgets. It's currently my favorite iteration of FitD, other than Runners in the Shadows.

 

[Lord Dynel]

I've had a couple.

Everyday Heroes. I should've known what to expect, building from a 5e baseline, but it really underwhelmed me.

Chivalry & Sorcery. I really, really love reading this new edition, but man are the rules a bit...involved. Kind of deflated me.

 

[swzl]

Chivalry & Sorcery. I really, really love reading this new edition, but man are the rules a bit...involved. Kind of deflated me.

I own every edition since I picked up the 1E brand new. Blew my having only played D&D to that point mind. My favorite is 2E. But all of them are just to much crunch for my deteriorating neurons to deal with.

 

[Kage2020]

Can I ask a dumb question? Well, I'm going to anyway ...

I know what FATE is. What's the "distros" part?

Actually, my bad for using the term, which is derived from discussions of Linux (computer OS) where you basically have the same kernel, but different implementations (distros). I use it for similar reasons, and because they're always going to be derivative of FATE even if they are going to rebrand themselves to Fate <something or other>.

FATE heads can get rather... precious about capitalisation. O.o

That's funny to me because, while I know someone people really like the Savage Worlds system for exactly what it is, what I like about it is that it's a fast-paced, high action system that mostly gets out of the way.

The reason that I keep on buying stuff for the system is the hope that finally I'll have my Eureka! moment and fall in love with the system. It has all the right parts, but they just seem like how they've been put together rubs up inappropriately against bits of my brain.

 

[Malckuss]

The new Trinity/Adventure! Kickstarter. I just got my last books in the mail, and I was filled with unhappiness being reminded of its existence. The rules are a byzantine, unplayable mess, a complete disappointment to what I was expecting.

If I wasn't broke, I'd offer to buy them from you; the original Aeon/Aberrant/Adventure! was my crew's favorite system we played almost until the 2E stuff was available. We played the new Aberrant recently, and it was excellent.

FATE heads can get rather... precious about capitalisation. O.o

This has to do with Fred Hick's response to the full capitalization of Fate, himself. From my experience with both of them on G+, TBP, and elsewhere, Fred isn't as full of himself or as asinine as John Wick; however, he can be abrasive & reactionary. He insists it is simply Fate, not FATE. Many of Evil Hat's fans respond accordingly. For me, it is simply a matter of respect; he has a preference, so I show deference to that preference. However, I also don't get bent out of shape if someone else chooses to use capitalization because that's their choice, and 'correcting' them on it is disrespectful, IMHO.

The reason that I keep on buying stuff for the system is the hope that finally I'll have my Eureka! moment and fall in love with the system. It has all the right parts, but they just seem like how they've been put together rubs up inappropriately against bits of my brain.

This sounds like you should ask someone who knows the game well to run a few sessions for you.

 

[RangerRupert]

FYI, I was just responding to another post about the term "FATE (distros)" [sic]. No disrespect was meant.

 

[Lofgeornost]

I own every edition since I picked up the 1E brand new. Blew my having only played D&D to that point mind. My favorite is 2E. But all of them are just to much crunch for my deteriorating neurons to deal with.

I too got hooked on C&S with 1st edition, and had some good games with it and 2nd edition. After decades of not thinking much about it, I pulled out my copies a few years back, only to realize, like you, that I'd probably never want to play a game that complex these days.

 

[Malckuss]

FYI, I was just responding to another post about the term "FATE (distros)" [sic]. No disrespect was meant.

None at all taken, at least not on my part. I was simply offering up the reason some people do get upset about the different presentation styles. My apologies if that explanation implied disrespect.

 

[Silverlion]

I can rarely get bundles or the like. Are there some things I'm disappointed in? Not because of the rules/game themselves, but because my friends refuse to try them, that is my biggest issue. In that case, it would be Wrath and Glory, two of my players are into Warhammer. I'm not at all. Maybe they'd like to try the RPG, but so far--nada. One player is adamant against the setting entirely, and I can't blem him.

 

[Kage2020]

This has to do with Fred Hick's response to the full capitalization of Fate, himself. From my experience with both of them on G+, TBP, and elsewhere, Fred isn't as full of himself or as asinine as John Wick; however, he can be abrasive & reactionary. He insists it is simply Fate, not FATE. Many of Evil Hat's fans respond accordingly. For me, it is simply a matter of respect; he has a preference, so I show deference to that preference. However, I also don't get bent out of shape if someone else chooses to use capitalization because that's their choice, and 'correcting' them on it is disrespectful, IMHO.

For me, the capitalisation of FATE recognises the origins of the game (from FUDGE). It also recognises the fact that it's a generic game that has to be tailored to the setting at hand and, thus, is like all other generic games. Despite this, however, the stink-eye that is leveled at other generics somehow slips off FATE distros like water off a duck's feathers.

"Fate" seems to be a way of trying to diminish that in some way. Thus I'll talk generally about "FATE distros" but be very specific when it comes down to, say, Fate Core. Similarly, I'll be deliberate in referring to Strands of FATE (1e) and Strands of Fate (2e).

I guess the capitalisation is a way of waving at the game ecosystem and recognising the origins before I delve into discussions of specific "distributions"/games.

This sounds like you should ask someone who knows the game well to run a few sessions for you.

As I'm an only online gamer, this has always been problematic. You are, however, 100% correct.

 

[bleys21]

I'll piss off the cultists here, but for me its Runequest. I really thought I had missed out by not being exposed to the system when I was younger, I bought all in on the posts and reviews, bought RQ:G slipcase and the (admittedly beautiful) Guide to Glorantha...and then didn't mesh with any of it at all. Ugh. Sold the RQ:Q standalone book, but the slipcase version of GtG still sit on my shelf...looking lovely, I guess?

 

[AsenRG]

I'll piss off the cultists here, but for me its Runequest. I really thought I had missed out by not being exposed to the system when I was younger, I bought all in on the posts and reviews, bought RQ:G slipcase and the (admittedly beautiful) Guide to Glorantha...and then didn't mesh with any of it at all. Ugh. Sold the RQ:Q standalone book, but the slipcase version of GtG still sit on my shelf...looking lovely, I guess?

Who it is exactly that would be pissed off?

Glorantha is definitely an acquired taste and I wouldn't recommend it for everyone!

 

[Chris Brady]

Truthfully... I don't regret my choices. Probably because I convince myself that I can get use out of everything I buy. And so far I have. But if there's one system I don't care for, it's FATE. Or maybe anything with a 'Doom' pool other economy mechanic that pits Players vs. GM. Every game I have gotten with that mechanic has been a disappointment, but I still do get use out of, even if it's just ideas to use.

 

[Grymbok]

I've had a few Kickstarters where I'd lost interest before the book even turned up, based on previews/updates in the campaign (or sometimes a PDF I got before the book). Numenera was one of those - don't like the Cyber system and the final game setting wasn't really what I was expecting based on the early previews. 7th Sea Second Edition falls in to that category too, and Pugmire

I also bounced hard off Shadow of the Demon Lord, but I at least read that one.

 

[Rich H]

I'll piss off the cultists here, but for me its Runequest. I really thought I had missed out by not being exposed to the system when I was younger, I bought all in on the posts and reviews, bought RQ:G slipcase and the (admittedly beautiful) Guide to Glorantha...and then didn't mesh with any of it at all. Ugh. Sold the RQ:Q standalone book, but the slipcase version of GtG still sit on my shelf...looking lovely, I guess?

I'm absolutely with you on that, my friend. I felt like *really* getting into Runequest was one of my RPG gaps. I played a bit of 3rd edition back in the day but it wasn't set in Glorantha so when the new edition had been out for some time, I invested heavily in it - bit of a quirk of mine; have to buy lots of available stuff for an RPG - and bounced right off it.

Other things I've paid the price for that I can think of...

Mutant Chronicles - 2d20. Yuck.
Mork Borg - its just... empty and a triumph of style over substance. I like Pirate Borg though.
Dungeon Crawl Classics - nothing classic about it, just feels like a heavily houseruled D&D with even dafter dice.
Mothership - not for me; don't know why I bought it when I have Alien.

There's loads more but those 5 plus RQ are the ones I can think of.

 

[Self Saboteur]

A skirmish game called MERCS. Looked good. Had excellent minis but the rules and mechanics were very poor.

 

[TheoryofGame]

It isn't newish but Masks: A New Generation? Super-duper dogwater game there. It's been hit or miss with the PbtA systems por mi: Uncharted Worlds and Spirit of '77 were low-key winsome but Masks ----- best term I can summon is "anti-emergent". If M: ANG was a movie it'd be Jaws the Revenge!

Masks slapped the sht out of fun!

 

[Acmegamer]

I'll piss off the cultists here, but for me its Runequest. I really thought I had missed out by not being exposed to the system when I was younger, I bought all in on the posts and reviews, bought RQ:G slipcase and the (admittedly beautiful) Guide to Glorantha...and then didn't mesh with any of it at all. Ugh. Sold the RQ:Q standalone book, but the slipcase version of GtG still sit on my shelf...looking lovely, I guess?

Honestly, I guess it depends how far back you were exposed to it. 1978, was a huge difference compared to D&D, Traveller and Tunnels & Trolls. All four were very different if look at them mechanically. For me what made RQ so awesome compared to the three at the time, was that the combat mechanics felt so much more active. Whereas D&D in particular felt rather staid and chessboard like.

I will very much agree with you that RQG isn't what I'd hoped for personally. Of course I can say the same for GURPS 4e. heh. I overall prefer RQ published through Avalon Hill. I strongly disagree with the recent blog post I read from Mike O'Brian from before he joined Chaosium and I felt it was entirely hyperbolic and shitty in regards to RQ3 (Avalon Hill), the guys kinda of a dick I've noted over the past few years.

Anyhow it's definitely an interesting version of RuneQuest but not one that's for me. I'll collect it off an on just for the lore and beauty of the books but it's nothing i want to run.

 

[Acmegamer]

I've had a few Kickstarters where I'd lost interest before the book even turned up, based on previews/updates in the campaign (or sometimes a PDF I got before the book). Numenera was one of those - don't like the Cyber system and the final game setting wasn't really what I was expecting based on the early previews. 7th Sea Second Edition falls in to that category too, and Pugmire

I also bounced hard off Shadow of the Demon Lord, but I at least read that one.

Can I ask why you bounced off of SotDL? It's one of my favorite D&D variants out there. It's one of the few that I'd consider running and have enjoyed playing in. Basically the only D&D I want to play or run are the following, SotDL, Shadowdark Rpg and DCC Rpg. Otherwise I have no interest in a D&D or D&D variant.

 

[bleys21]

Who it is exactly that would be pissed off?

Glorantha is definitely an acquired taste and I wouldn't recommend it for everyone!

I was kinda doing a play on words (cultists in Glorantha) plus I always refer to adherents of games here as cultists(no offense intended, it makes me laugh when I say it or write it.) I thought it sounded funny Your mileage may vary!

 

[AsenRG]

I was kinda doing a play on words (cultists in Glorantha) plus I always refer to adherents of games here as cultists(no offense intended, it makes me laugh when I say it or write it.) I thought it sounded funny Your mileage may vary!

Yeah, but I haven't seen many RQ7 adherents on this board. Most d100 fans here seem to think it is somewhat...overwrought.
And us Mythras fans would probably use the unfinished Adventures in Glorantha...

So I was genuinely perplexed who you thought would be offended.

 

[Grymbok]

Can I ask why you bounced off of SotDL? It's one of my favorite D&D variants out there. It's one of the few that I'd consider running and have enjoyed playing in. Basically the only D&D I want to play or run are the following, SotDL, Shadowdark Rpg and DCC Rpg. Otherwise I have no interest in a D&D or D&D variant.

It came out the best part of 10 years ago so my memory is bound to be flaky here. I think I found it too "grim dark" for my tastes, and I didn't like the 10 level advancement model. Also wasn't there something that tied advancement to campaign stages or something like that?

Honestly I think it was all very much "should have read the Kickstarter campaign more carefully before backing". It was a bit like when you don't like a restaurant meal not because it was cooked badly but just because you probably shouldn't have ordered it.

 

[David Johansen]

Yeah, I got sucked in on Mutant Chronicles 2d20 and the Prodos itteration of Warzone. I got to play a bit more of 2d20 than previous editions but that's because I was often gaming 5 days a week when I had my store.

 

[arjunstc]

Savage Worlds Sci-fi Companion Kickstarter.

I really don't need this one since I have played several sci-fi campaign using two editions Savage Worlds and the Sci-fi Companion from the previous edition, and the delivery date for this kickstarter is next year, and I plan to run my next sci-fi campaign later this year... but yea, I failed the Saving Throw. Technically it doesn't break my pledge of "no more kickstarters" because it's a pre-order.

 

[rumble]

Glitzy edition of Gardens of Ynn Kickstarter along with the other book.

I don't really need them. The dice are rolling, but I'm pretty sure they'll come up a 1.

 

[Malckuss]

Savage Worlds Sci-fi Companion Kickstarter.

I really don't need this one since I have played several sci-fi campaign using two editions Savage Worlds and the Sci-fi Companion from the previous edition, and the delivery date for this kickstarter is next year, and I plan to run my next sci-fi campaign later this year... but yea, I failed the Saving Throw. Technically it doesn't break my pledge of "no more kickstarters" because it's a pre-order.

The Sci-fi Companion is my most anticipated SW product I am currently aware of.

 

[Acmegamer]

It came out the best part of 10 years ago so my memory is bound to be flaky here. I think I found it too "grim dark" for my tastes, and I didn't like the 10 level advancement model. Also wasn't there something that tied advancement to campaign stages or something like that?

Honestly I think it was all very much "should have read the Kickstarter campaign more carefully before backing". It was a bit like when you don't like a restaurant meal not because it was cooked badly but just because you probably shouldn't have ordered it.

Ok, I get that. Darker campaign settings aren't for everyone. I've been running darker, grimer settings by around 1981 when I got over high fantasy and wanted worlds at the time. I wanted more Elric sort of settings and the Thieves' World books really hit the spot for me.

I didn't mind the 10- level cap on it, but I am not big fan of the advancement system either. Same thing with the most recent version of Savage Worlds as well. If I am playing a game with levels in it, I do prefer experience points over all. I do love his take on the mechanics, spells, abilities, combat and classes though.

Anyhow, thanks for replying. I'm always keen to understand why someone likes or doesn't like something. Especially if it's the opposite of how I feel about a system. Anytime someone can give me some "whys" of a like or dislike I'm deeply appreciative.

 

[Acmegamer]

For me, a project I backed for D&D has left a bad taste in my mouth. Basically I tend to pass on most D&D projects unless it's something different.

In this case I decided to back Ultramodern 5e for D&D. What a messy Backerkit project. All over the place, I went all in and at spring he sent out print on demands coupons and I printed the book.

Even though I went all in at the $129.00, which was all the pdfs and physical books etc but not the faux leather. I've had to spend quite a bit more due to charging me for the PoD ($90.00) book. Oh and six months later he totally revamped the book so the PoD I paid for, was worthless because his rewrite was significant.

Basically I'm in for $249.83 so far, a mess of a ton of files totalling around 6 gigs of data and he's in the middle of his revamp. Oh and he just recently sent a coupon for VTT, but even with the coupon its another $10.00 bucks basically.

I've done a lot of Kickstarters(closing on around 150 ish, nothing like the amount chuckdee has done, man his numbers are scary impressive) and I've only had an issue a few Kickstarters/Backerkit/Gamefound etc.

An Italian company who licenced Monte Cook Games Diamond Throne Setting (Almost four years and I've still not gotten everything and what I've gotten has had errors, lots of typos etc) MCG has stepped in to try to correct his abortion btw and it's coming along bit by bit.

An Arc Dreams Delta Green Kickstarter which was a nightmare to deal with considering how much I was throwing at them. Their communication, how they treat customers and refuse to accept any feedback is incredible. There response to anything critical or offering feedback in order to improve the interaction is "We can offer a refund". If you push back a couple times they'll actually just refund you without asking.

And now my third PITA, Dias Ex Machina games and the Ultramodern 5e Backerkit. The guy needs someone to take him by the hand and organize his ass and stop him from meandering all over the place. I think we're getting closer to actually seeing the books etc. I've been more blunt and short with this guy after he got me to spend near an extra $100.00 to print up a book only to have it become a paper weight due to his revamp.

Anyhow most of my Kickstarters have been good to excellent, most of them communicate well or very well. There have been a few that were "meh" on the communication but they still kept to a timely schedule or were only late within up to six months. Most actually are closer to on time and I don't mind upwards of six months late due to printing or shipping issues, as long as it's communicated.

That said, I am become rather jaded about backing projects and I am working on backing less. I'm around 30 bookmarked projects that I'm keeping an eye on that I've backed. Hopefully this year I'll back a lot less, FOMO is the mind killer and I'm tired of FOMO.

 

[arjunstc]

An Italian company who...

I've had three bad experiences with kickstarters, and two of them were with Italian companies, which makes me wonder if this is something to do with their work culture?

One project was much delayed, and when I asked about it they said it's been shipped off so the delay must be with the local delivery service... but it turned out they haven't shipped it off and just lied. When confronted, they refused to admit or apologise.

Another one unilaterally decided after campaign ended to greatly expand the books, which resulted in a (so far) two years delay to delivery. All the while with minimal communication. The backers are all so tired of it that at their last update promising (finally) delivery there were zero comments.