Grim & Perilous now ... Cannon Otter Studio?

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With WHFP 4e getting released and supported I suspect most of the reason for G&P has faded.

Makes sense to me to start a new brand as G&P seems pretty wedded to WFRP.

I'd prefer to see original games to yet another clone or tweaked older ruleset.

The 5e Neverland book is quite good btw, although for personal reasons I'm unlikely to support anything coming from them in the future, unless they come up with a cool game I can't resist.
 
So you think they're going to abandon their older games?
 
Reforged is going to be a streamlined, updated and better edited edition of Zweihander, following the design principles established in the Starter Set. It will maintain backwards compatibility with all previous Zweihander products. Day one pledge from me, though I must say I'm perfectly happy with the Revised edition, and am currently running a campaign with it.
 
Gringnr said:
Reforged is going to be a streamlined, updated and better edited edition of Zweihander, following the design principles established in the Starter Set. It will maintain backwards compatibility with all previous Zweihander products. Day one pledge from me, though I must say I'm perfectly happy with the Revised edition, and am currently running a campaign with it.
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I notice that there are plenty of Zweihänder adventures on DriveThru. Any that you would recommend in the ”grim Germania” vein?
 
Meh.

I had such high hopes for Zweihander as the successor to WHFRP 1e. What I got was some thing that seemingly change things for no good reason just enough to make it “different.”.

Plus, I prefer my gaming to be very much in the same spirit as the Pub, which is politics agnostic. Without any discussion of specifics, G&P are very much not that. Plus the founder is a pompous ass.

With WHFRP 4e, 2e and 1e I have no need of anything from G&P.

I have a pile of Zweihander books I should get around to selling.
 
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chuckdee said:
So you think they're going to abandon their older games?
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I don't think so. What's notable is that on social media Fox has been trying to distance himself from the Warhammer retroclone tag. So I suspect this is part of that and Zweihander 2e will likely try and be less like its original inspiration. (I know they're introducing a catlike race which does suggest they may be going for quite major background changes). If that's your aim, changing the company name from one heavily associated with Warhammer makes sense.
 
SJB said:
I notice that there are plenty of Zweihänder adventures on DriveThru. Any that you would recommend in the ”grim Germania” vein?
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The Concordance of Freedom by Sean Van Damme is a five-part campaign that starts off with a short adventure. Each adventure gets longer, and the whole thing is I believe around 250 pages, all told. It's a well-written adventure. I haven't run it, only read it, but I like it a lot.

Eternal Night of Lockwood is another really good Campaign, written by James Introcaso. Really like this one as well.

TBH, I usually use Aweihander to run WFRP 1e adventures. But I have most of the 3p stuff. A lot of it is good.
 
Actually, wait, sorry, I'd forgotten that Grim & Perilous is no longer owned by Fox. So I'm even more confused; is this a separation of them from Zweihander (which is still the name I think Fox uses as his handle?)
 
chuckdee said:
So you think they're going to abandon their older games?
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WRT Zweihander, I don't think so. The new stuff is being kept backwards compatible. I don't know what's up with the rights to the Revised Edition of Zweihander, but I think AMU still have distribution rights to it. They're the ones selling it on drivethru, anyway. Flames of Freedom and Blackbirds are owned by other creators (Richard Iorio and Ryan Vermere, respectively), if I'm not mistaken. So, they licensed the Zweihander system, but I think whatever is going on beyond that is between those creators and AMU.

I'm not 100% on any of that, though. I dig the games, I buy them, but the licensing stuff I don't really follow, I just see it on my Facebook and in the Discord. So I might be remembering it all wrong.
 
Gringnr said:
Flames of Freedom and Blackbirds are owned by other creators (Richard Iorio and Ryan Vermere, respectively), if I'm not mistaken. So, they licensed the Zweihander system, but I think whatever is going on beyond that is between those creators and AMU.
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Richard Iorio made a few comments about Flames of Freedom and that deal the other day over in the EN World thread about the Evil Genius Games implosion.
 
Sounds like he didn't dig the final product. Or anything to do with it. I wonder who owns it? Him? AMU? I think Fox had posted that it wasn't his... somewhere.
 
StubbornMule said:
Richard Iorio made a few comments about Flames of Freedom and that deal the other day over in the EN World thread about the Evil Genius Games implosion.
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I didn't see his response, I don't think. Don't know who the SNs are. But I did see one pointing to Colonial Gothic: Turncoats and one of the first comments on that is interesting:

For those who lost jobs from the closure of AMU, I wish them good luck. Myself, I far prefer Colonial Gothic. Speaking of, I have reached page 34 of Turncoats. Under 'New Spell- The Sigil of Mercury Obscured' there is the sentence 'All Cryptography tests to decipher, decode,
or find with a Cardano grille, hidden messages on
paper bearing the Sigil. ' (sic) Might someone elaborate on that for me? Thanks!
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What's AMU?
 
Fenris-77 said:
So now I have to make fun of someone else for selling a ridiculous ripoff of a game I do like? This is all starting to sound like work.
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TBF, that's no different than OSRIC, OSE or any of the other retroclones. And originally at least, that's how it was marketed.

"ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG is an OSR, retro-clone spiritual successor to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay first and second editions, an unrepentant heartbreaker "

It did do what it said on the tin, although the "spiritual successor" stuff was rather un Warhammer in its breathless lack of irony.

Now I think it's more of a repentent heartbreaker.

For me, I own the early book on PDF but I just don't feel a need for a RPG that is essentially 2e with some house rules.

If I want the old school Warhammer feel I own 2e. But I'd probably use 4e.

Something that both 2e and 4e have is a massive support line. So I can either just use those or put in the effort to convert them fully to Zweihander. Which wouldn't take that long ,but still doesn't seem worth it.
 
A Fiery Flying Roll said:
TBF, that's no different than OSRIC, OSE or any of the other retroclones. And originally at least, that's how it was marketed.

"ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG is an OSR, retro-clone spiritual successor to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay first and second editions, an unrepentant heartbreaker "

It did do what it said on the tin, although the "spiritual successor" stuff was rather un Warhammer in its breathless lack of irony.

Now I think it's more of a repentent heartbreaker.

For me, I own the early book on PDF but I just don't feel a need for a RPG that is essentially 2e with some house rules.

If I want the old school Warhammer feel I own 2e. But I'd probably use 4e.

Something that both 2e and 4e have is a massive support line. So I can either just use those or put in the effort to convert them fully to Zweihander. Which wouldn't take that long ,but still doesn't seem worth it.
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TBF OSRIC is different because it was written as a reference document to allow the publishing of AD&D modules when people weren't sure if WotC would let them.
 
Fenris-77 said:
I have nothing against retroclones. I laugh at people who make a retroclone and then in all seriousness talk about their design principles though.
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It’s a poorly executed retro clone that was created by an individual who has no real talent in attempt to jumpstart their career as a great game designer.

That the need for a new revision to the poor retro clone to sell more copies and try to distance itself from its origins, since it is clearly a pale imitation.
 
Gringnr said:
OSRIC is coming out with a Players' Guide and a second edition, so not sure that applies anymore.
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That's fair, they have now pivoted to make it a playable, standalone game but when it first came out that wasn't the case.
 
A Fiery Flying Roll said:
Now I think it's more of a repentent heartbreaker.
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Oh sure, gussy up what I called it. Fancy, repentant, high falutin words! Hrmph! *




*Nailed it with the house rules version of the game. There comes a point when folks are simply re-selling you retreads of the same thing. Like a lot of the Kickstarters, I'm kinda over that.
 
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enworld has an interview with Daniel Fox about Zweihander Reforged.

www.enworld.org

ZWEIHÄNDER Reforged: Talking With Daniel D. Fox (World of Game Design)

In 2018, ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG won Gold Ennie Awards for Best Game and Product of the Year. Since then, the TTRPG moved between publishers, appearing in various forms including a Starter Kit. Charles Dunwoody interviewed Daniel D. Fox, the creator of ZWEIHÄNDER, in 2021. In 2023, I...
www.enworld.org www.enworld.org
 
Gringnr said:
The Concordance of Freedom by Sean Van Damme is a five-part campaign that starts off with a short adventure. Each adventure gets longer, and the whole thing is I believe around 250 pages, all told. It's a well-written adventure. I haven't run it, only read it, but I like it a lot.
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Didn't know the belgian muscleman was into rpgs.

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