Return to the Old School: How to kick ACKS (or die trying).

[Sable Wyvern]

Departing Winterburg, the group finds sign that the fort near the end of the road has seen semi-regular use. South of there, they find a circle of standing stones that were shown on their Vault map, and mentioned by the viscount. The stones radiate magic, and are inscribed with runic symbols. There are tracks indicating 8 – 10 people entered the circle at point within the last couple of weeks, but no sign they left.

Heading south from the stones to the river, the party hears trumpets and other sounds from the west. Cynog speaks to a ferret, who tells them that the sounds belong to the Children of the Forest, who celebrate the wonders of life during the day, and at night mourn all that was lost, even as they ensure their line continues. The ferret believes they are strange, but not dangerous. Although, if you join them, sometimes when you return you find you have become a different animal.

It's decided that messing with these supposed fey creatures is unwise. It’s possible that the people who vanished from the standing stones went to some fey realm. Also mentioned is what happened last time the group ventured into the realm of fairy in one of my games.

Which means, time for some backstory.

I have always enjoyed inserted somewhat alien, surreal, dreamlike fey into my games, although usually more as a background element, with PCs only getting directly involved with the fey on rare occasions. When I was running Rolemaster a few years ago, the PCs were asked by local farmers to deal with attacks by gremlins. Coincidentally, the gremlin attacks started around the same time a local farmer found a sheep with a golden fleece. The PCs entered the realm of fairy, had met some fairy royalty and the gremlin king, and eventually convinced the locals to return the golden sheep to its gremlin owners. I was pretty happy with how I portrayed the fairy realm but, as usual, all this talk of “time passes differently” and “you might be trapped in their realm forever” and stuff like that had not impact on anything.​

​

Later in the same campaign, the group was tracking a unicorn (I can’t recall why), and followed it into the fairy realm. I decided it was time to pull the trigger and prove I wasn’t bluffing. When the PCs emerged back into the normal world, 75 years had passed.​

​

The reality is, this isn’t something you can generally just do to a campaign. Other than potentially destroying most of my own world-building prep work, it can lay waste to PC plans and things they’ve been working on forever. In this case, doing a massive time jump was disruptive, but not destructive.​

Anyway, when the players used those events, from another game, to make a meta-decision to avoid my fun, interesting and trippy fey encounter from this game, I was initially a little annoyed. However, on reflection, I’m really happy. The players, and thus the PCs, now have a real and sensible fear and respect for fairies. Someone losing a hundred of years dancing in a fairy circle is something they believe can actually happen in my game. From the perspective of the characters, visiting fairy festivals can have dramatic, lasting consequences, and is not something to be undertaken light. I think that is definitely a good thing. (And, to be completely fair, one of the possible outcomes of visiting, while it would not have cost the group any time as such, would have included some time-based fuckery they would not have liked.)

So, with the decision was made to avoid the tricksy fey, they continued south, finding a slow moving river flowing south east. Following the river for a few days, it soon turns in a more southerly direction. They find marking showing a large, snakelike shape has been dragging itself in and out of the water. Again Cynog talks to the wildlife, and the group suspects there is a naga in the area. Further south, they come across a walled orcish village on the far bank, and give it a wide berth.

They encounter a dryad, who darts off into the forest after a brief conversation in which Tannek apologises for disturbing her.

A few days to the south, they find a large, overgrown stone table near the river, which they take to be the stone map on their map. Unable to decipher it’s meaning, they do know it’s a sign for them to head east, so they do so.


Eventually they reach another river, and follow it north looking for an easy ford. They do find a ford, and also tracks that suggest a large group – probably about 50 individuals of roughly human size – also crossed her the previous night (seriously, the addition of tracks to wilderness encounter tables is brilliant).

Cynog again talks to the local wildlife, who suggest it was orcs who crossed here. The gnome convinces some birds to scout for him, and they report a force of orcs encamped to the east-southeast.

It’s decided to pursue and destroy the orcs, but we’ll leave that to the next session.

 

[yukiomo]

The group then spends some time comparing the map they’ve been given to the Vault, the map provided by the viscount, and their existing notes on the Ostwood. As is going to be the case regularly over the rest of the session and the next, I’m extremely happy with how the Alexandrian hexcrawling rules work. It really feels as if the party are exploring and navigating poorly-charted wilderness.

Do you have a formalized procedure for how you're synthesizing ACKS' 6-mile hexes and proficiencies with the Alexandrian's 12-mile hexes and 3.x skills? (I know you posted about this here, about around a year ago, and maybe I missed more extensive discussion.) The Alexandrian's system has generally appealed to me--it enables player agency during hexcrawling and, like you say, models interesting aspects of the exploration process--but I've never had opportunity to run an in-depth ACKS hexcrawl, and so have left this at the theorycrafting stage.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

Do you have a formalized procedure for how you're synthesizing ACKS' 6-mile hexes and proficiencies with the Alexandrian's 12-mile hexes and 3.x skills? (I know you posted about this here, about around a year ago, and maybe I missed more extensive discussion.) The Alexandrian's system has generally appealed to me--it enables player agency during hexcrawling and, like you say, models interesting aspects of the exploration process--but I've never had opportunity to run an in-depth ACKS hexcrawl, and so have left this at the theorycrafting stage.

Using six miles hexes doesn't really require any changes to the rules, other then checks to notice you are lost happening every two hexes, rather than whenever you leave a hex. That said, if I was designing my maps now, I would insert a 12mi hex scale between 24 and 6 in Worldographer, as I feel 12mi hexes would make running the Alexandrian system much easier (and also make prep much easier, since I wouldn't have to come up with nearly as many hex features, and the ones that I do come up with are more likely to actually see use).

The linked folder below includes most of my hexcrawling material.

The main rule document covers most of the details, but is player facing, so a few of the specific details are left out.

Page two of the referee cheat sheet has a bit more info in some of the summary tables. The failed navigation check for skilled navigators has drift for the inner arrows, and heading in the wrong direction for the outer arrows.

I am most likely going to move from a d8 to d6 for random encounters. If an wandering monster is indicated while the party is stationary, the result is disregarded if it ends up being lair or tracks.

I've simplified the encounter checks a little, with one roll to determine the encounter type, then one more to determine if it's a wandering monster, tracks or lair. The 4-digit numbers in square brackets are known lair locations, which assist in working out where monsters are coming from or going to when they or their tracks are encountered.

I've also included my pace and distance spreadsheet, which has made the mechanical stuff much, much easier. Once I got used to it, it makes the whole process really smooth. The terrain and condition settings don't change much, and then it's just a matter of rolling some dice to determine actual distance. A land surveying check, if failed, means the players just get a generic poor, good or excellent pace. If the check is passed, 2d12 are rolled and then the sheet outputs the distance estimate the land surveyor comes up with.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

Hexcrawling - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[Sable Wyvern]

Session 39

16 September 2023

Pre-session discussion and random musings

While we we sitting around chatting prior to the start of the session, there was some discussion of longer-term plans for the group (ie, the next campaign).

I commented that the current ACKS gamewill run for at least another year. De then mentioned that a year doesn’t seem like enough time to reach the higher levels where you get to do domain play. It is clear now that he is utterly fixated on this notion that domain play starts at level 9, and I just don’t get it. “Three of you have baronies right now,” I pointed out.

I’ve been thinking about this since then, trying to work out why he has this idea that he has to wait until 9th level. I’ve pointed out that all he’ll get at that level is some free followers, and nothing else changes. I’ve pointed out he has a barony right now. I had their old, executed friend the baron trying to recruit the PCs into the rebellion. I’ve had Ishannic bladedancers try and recruit Sircini. The Duke sees that the PCs have the potential to be big players, and is currying their favour. An entire civil war happened around them, and they could have chosen to get involved. I know that they know they could have, because they actually talked about doing so.

I think part of the reason no one is really biting on this stuff is because De (who has quite a bit of influence over group decisions) is simply assuming he can’t come into control of a larger domain unless he’s three levels higher or somesuch. My best guess is that from the moment the game began, De has been fixated on reaching high levels and doing cool domain stuff, and he’s so focused on the “reaching level nine” part, that he’s failed to notice it’s not the level that matters. He seems to be interpreting everything that occurs from the perspective of someone who doesn’t believe it’s possible to acquire a larger domain without first gaining more levels.

As I was writing this section, I couldn’t help worrying that it’s my fault De has the wrong impression, and thinking that maybe I should just come out and push the group in a blunter fashion towards the things De says he wants to do. However, I genuinely think it will be more fulfilling in the long run if the players make these decisions without that kind of input from me, so I ultimately decided to avoid any direct meddling.

Hopefully, certain events that I expect to occur in the near future will put a new perspective on these things.

* ** **** ** *​

Something I forgot to mention during the last session report (which I forgot because I’ve let myself get behind on these reports again) was that Sircini heard some of the templar troops referring to her as a witch, and worse things, which was clearly related to the recent friction between adherents of Ishanna and Solinor.

Sircini decided that the best approach to this was to confront the responsible individuals directly, but in a reasonable, rather than angry or aggressive fashion. The priestess turned out to be quite eloquent in the way she questioned the templars’ behaviour and reminded everyone they are all on the same side. The troops ended up quite embarrassed at their behaviour, and were thoroughly chastened.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

The Actual Session

• De: Tannek the Sentinel, Level 6 Lawful Paladin
  • Grook the Guide, Level 5 Neutral Explorer
  • Balrite the Guardian, Level 5 Lawful Paladin
  • Pherrod the Hero, Level 4 Neutral Fighter (watching over the barony)
  • Uthred the Hero, Level 4 Lawful Destined Fighter
  • Kerol the Acolyte, Level 2 Lawful Cleric
    • Diefenbacker the Wolf Pup, Level 1 Neutral Dire Wolf
• Tr: Gregor the Drunken Myrmidon, Level 6 Neutral Fighter
  • Sivart the Theurgist, Level 3 Neutral Mage
  • Cynog Dyfri the Rover, Level 2 Neutral Gnomish Poet Warden
• Jo: Hoik the Spelunker, Level 5 Lawful Dwarven Delver
  • Cornan the Swordmaster, Level 3 Lawful Fighter
• Ro: Malketh the Thaumaturge-Exemplar, Level 5 Neutral Elven Spellsword
  • Dashiel the Theurgist, Level 3 Neutral Mage

Hoik, Grook and Cynog scout ahead to locate the orcish encampment. They find it, but only realise they have done so when they are already inside the perimeter. They flee rapidly back through the forest as the orcs rouse themselves from their rest. Their best guess confirms there are about 50 orcs, as previously established by the tracks.

Given the size of the conflict, I checked out the ACKS cohort rules, which allow small formations of troops to be controlled relatively easily, and the men-at-arms are all placed into formations.

After casting a variety of spells in preparation (bless probably being the most useful, given it allows the entire war party to be buffed, as they crowd around and kneel to receive the beneficence of Solinor). Malketh makes himself invisible, and plans to breach the enemy lines to engage any commander, while the rest of the party intends up a frontal assault.

By the time the expedition arrives, the orcs have settled back down, with about half their force on lookout, and the remainder relaxing or getting some kip. As a result, the party is able to engage the enemy forces piecemeal, with their men-at-arms holding down various enemy formations while the PCs cleave and massacre their way through one orcish formation after another.

Malketh is unable to find any leaders (the orcish commander was in the front line early on), but does see a band of orcs heading to the front line, and gets to try out his new earth’s teeth smell, which obliterates eight or ten orcs at once as blades of rock thrust up from the ground to skewer them.

A number of orcs see the writing on the wall, and choose to flee the rampaging force of elite troops that are cutting their brethren to pieces.

In the aftermath of the battle, the players are quite happy with themselves. One of them comments that the PCs didn’t really even need the supporting troops. While De has a tendency to be overly cautious and the constant voice of “don’t get too cocky,” in this case he is quite right when he points out that, yes, the PCs are pretty damn tough, but they did take the orcish force essentially unawares and won initiative every single round – you’d expect a very positive outcome under those circumstances, but it doesn’t mean they can just wander blithely into any fight and expect to walk away unscathed.

A few men-at-arms took some damage, but the staff of healing has them all right as rain.

One orc is found to interrogate, as he lies bleeding out from a severed arm. Malketh conducts an interrogation, learning that the orc is of the Black Sword clan, and they were heading to capture some ogres from a nearby lair. When asked where the ogres are, he points back the direction they came from, and says they’re about a day away. The group is a little confused, the orc sticks to his story, and seems sincere.

Malketh asks about Impurax, and the orc advises the Black Swords have nothing to do with the human priests or their god.

The orc then expires, and it suddenly occurs to some of the players that some of its stranger answers were probably the result of the fact that it was in shock and dying (when Malketh asked where the ogre lair was, the orc wouldn’t have had the faintest idea which way it was facing at the time or which direction the war party had been marching prior to the ambush).

* ** **** ** *​

There is some talk of maybe hunting down the ogres, but it is decided to stay on (or, get back to) task and resume the hunt for Gregor’s armour.

Making excellent progress the following day, the party heads into some wooded hills, and finds a great statue of a warrior, standing about 60’ high atop a rocky hilltop.

At the base of the hill, the group finds the outline of a door, and a slot in the rocky face that is the right size of the flat, red crystal Gregor acquired. With a rumbling and grinding, after the keycard is slotted in, the doors open.

Hoik confirms the interior is not of dwarvish construction, and the use of Thulian cement in the interior suggests a timeline that matches the information Gregor obtained. Malketh casts infravision on Hoik, who sneaks inside. A wide corridor runs to a hexagonal chamber, and he can see some humanoid figures, just above room temperature, standing against the wall on the far side.

The group advances in, and Tannek attempts to communicate with the figures (short, squat and yellowish) in High Thulian, but they show no interest in diplomacy, and instead advance towards the group, clearly intent on violence. There are only four of them, but Dashiel gets a bit panicky and summons berserkers. The group makes relatively short work of them. With their unnatural appearance, purplish blood and the fact they seem to have been standing guard for hundreds of years, it’s assumed the beings were constructs.

Heading north, the group finds what appears to be an office. As they are intent on exploring as much territory as possible before the berserkers vanish, they don’t bother searching it, although there is a framed vellum sheet upon which is written in Thulian “Remember the True Cause of Law”.

They pass through a second office, beyond which they find a door with a complex and intricate clockwork mechanism. While Hoik carefully inspects it for traps, some members of the group begin searching through paperwork in one of the offices.

Based on what they find, it appears the facility was closed down at some point not long after Turms Termax rose to power. It was sealed, and efforts were made to strike all mention of it from all records. Special effort was made to ensure that the existence and nature of the Crysoclast Assembly remained secret, so that it could be held ready for the moment when Thulian loyalists were ready to rise up and take power back from the Termaxian.

Some members of the group jump to conclusions, and express concerns that there may be an unstable weapon of mass destruction in the facility somewhere.

Hoik declares the door untrapped, but attempts to actually unlock it only result in additional bolts sliding into place with emphatic thunks. Malketh pulls out the chimes of opening the group acquired somewhere. One ring resets the additional bolts that just barred the door, while a second spins more wheels and dials, releasing additional bars and resulting in the door swinging open.

Beyond is a room with basins around the walls, as well as some tables, benches and chairs. Levers beside the door the group just entered, as well as a door in the south, operate the complex locking mechanisms barring each door, making them simply to pass through from this side. There are some suggestions from the group this this may be a scrub room for access to a controlled environment.

Heading north, through an exit without a complex lock, the group finds their way to a very large chamber, filled with work benches and stools. As the party enters, crystal features sitting atop narrow pillars light up, bathing the room in a soft glow. The lights are clearly set up to ensure good illumination at all the benches and tables.

As the group traverses the room, they are set upon by two spectres, one who engages the party directly, while another hurls objects from various tables. Before the apparitions are defeated, Uthred is struck, and the spectre’s deathly touch saps a significant amount of his Constitution.

There are a number of small labs and chambers around the main chamber. In one work chamber they find various items similar to the caducei they have been finding in Dwimmermount, along with some notes indicating the “pass keys” are ready to go into production.

Another chamber is an alchemical lab, with an array of glassware, burners, and the like, along with a few sealed potions.

There is a storehouse filled with metamphorae, each labelled as containing various magical ingredients, and the group finds plenty of other hardware and notes that would be invaluable in setting up a magical workshop.

Having completed their search of this area, the group returns to the offices and looks through the notes. They find reference stating that the Crysoclast Assembly can only be woken by presenting the red scepter while in presence of Kahtaken (it’s unclear if this is reference to the panoply itself, or the person it was made for).

A few more construct guardians are encountered, and the party then passes through a series of chambers where they are wander through some exhibits of art (paintings, murals, sculptures and mosaics) clearly designed to impart a moral message. Over the door of the first chamber, the sequence is introduced with the statement, “Wisdom can be found only in understanding our past”.

Following the first sequence of exhibits, the party sees the Eld invading the lands, killing and destroying, enslaving, breeding beastmen, and revelling in their own power, until the original Thulians arrive and defeat them.

A second chamber has another exhibit that is nearly a mirror image of the first, showing the victorious Thulian empire slowly descend into violence and tyranny, until the Thulians are doing (and looking) exactly like the Eld.

In the next chamber are four pillars. One has a face upon it, which speaks when the group enters.

If the Thulian empire is to live up to its ideals it must divest itself of the evils it has allowed to accumulate; it must rediscover passion and humility; the true path of law lies in love and not in excess of strictures and punishments.

Beyond this static morality play (which seems to have been quite effective, as the players are intrigued by those who created it, and impressed and intrigued by the message), the party finds what they are looking for.

A large chamber has a wide, semicircular dais at the far end, upon which is displayed a suit gold and purple lamellar armour. In the near wall is a large set of double doors with an iron bar. Light stands similar to those found in the laboratory mark the corners of the chamber, but they do not light up.

As the group approaches the dais, Hoik bids them to stop, and carefully inspect the steps, noticing that there are wards of an arcane nature guarding the ascent (I allow detect traps to detect magical traps if a full turn is taken, and Jo was quite specific that he was checking the approach, not just the stand on which the armour was sitting, thus foiling my cunning trap and the fun fight I had planned).

At this stage, it was decided to haul out all the loot they had found, then rest the night so that Malketh could attempt to dispel the ward the following day. Dashiel set about reading through the notes and other paperwork extracted. The main take aways from his initial studies are that the Crysoclast Assembly was original intended to overthrow the Thulians that had fallen to corruption and then, later, to overthrow the Termaxians. He also finds records indicating that the red sceptre is stored securely in the crystal tower. It is noted that the map Gregor obtained mentions a crystal key.

Returning the next day, the use of detect magic confirms that the armour is magical, as are the floor lamps, and that there is hazy area of wards about the dais stairs and the double doors. After Malketh uses his dispel, the dais wards vanish, and Gregor immediately heads forward to don his armour. Immediately he has done so, Gregor is filled with heightened confidence. Additionally, he thinks back on the recent battle against the orcs, and wonders at some ways in which perhaps the group could have approached the battle even better than they did.

Hoik checks the double doors, and confirms that they are barred with similar wards to those that protected the dais.

Attached to the armour is a small leather pouch containing a ring that radiates magic. It is decided this will be allocated to a different party member, once they confirm what it does (Gregor is fine with this … he has his armor, and is now happy for the party to do whatever and give treasure out in any way others see fit).

The complete haul from the vault so far is estimated to be at least 100,000gp of various components, tools, hardware etc, in addition to three magical scrolls, four potions, the armour, the ring and pair of spectacles with crystal lenses.

Malketh tries on the spectacles, then hurls them away as he feels a terrible chill seep instantly into his bones (save vs something nasty was passed). Ro is the sort of player that is smart and cautious most of the time, willing to take calculated risks sometimes, but who, on occasion, is simply impatient and impulsive, often with disastrous consequences. This time, he got lucky.

We call it a night at this point.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

Players' Vault of the Immortals Map

 

[Sable Wyvern]

After the session, Ro and De hung around for a bit, and Ro was able to track down a map the party acquired a long time ago while researching werebears in the Ostwood.


Ro then did some calculations based on the groups' own wilderness map, the map above and a couple more landmark maps they've been provided, and came to the conclusion the Crystal Tower is likely to be 30 miles north and slightly west of their current position. His estimate was close enough to seriously impress me, and leave me further enamoured of the Alexandrian hexcrawl method. There was more to come, however.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

Between sessions, De started thinking about the stone map they found, and what it might mean. Knowing that he was essentially throwing darts blindfolded, he nevertheless wanted to try and work out what the map represented (he was, of course, taking it on faith that what their map said was a map was actually a map).

While the characters don't have the facility to easily superimpose maps this way, this is the kind of thing that I think counts as "player skill", which the players find fun, I enjoy spectating, and which can lead to interesting outcomes. I'm all for it, and this kind of puzzle solving (which is entirely voluntary, and certainly not essential) is a lot of the appeal of this style of game, IMO.

Assumptions made by De:

1. The stone map diagram we have is with North at the top; and
2. The grey spot on the stone map that has the same shape as the stone map is the "You are Here" marker.



De's comment: The tricky part is figuring out the scale of the stone map because we don't know what any of the markers relate to. My guess is something that's been there for a long time (eg, perhaps the Crystal Tower or the Tree of the Heavens... maybe the statue on top of the vault, but it is definitely ENE of the stone map.

____________________________________________________​

De's comment: I also tried scaling our map to the one we were given.

This appears wrong... There is a marker directly (we assume) east of the stone table marker and at this scale, we walked right past it... unless it's the river... but I can't think of a reason to mark a river as a point.

He presented a few other options as well; you get the idea.

He's a fair way off, but getting people thinking along these lines will pay off down the track...

Other comments:

1. There is no reason for the content of the two maps to line up.
2. Obviously, the scale of the relative maps changes everything and we have to be approximate
3. One way to try to get a handle on it would be to head east from the stone map until we hit something of note and figure out the scale from there or head south from the table to find the marker that is almost directly below the stone table marker.
4. In terms of what we could consider landmarks that may pre-date the map that may be on the map

• Crystal Tower
• Tree of the Heavens
• Ancient Barrows
• Stone Circle
• Vault of the Ancients
• The ruined city

Meanwhile, Tr has posited that maybe it's not a map of locations on the ground, but some kind of astrological map (he didn't gain much support for this).

 

[Sable Wyvern]

Session 40

30 September 2023

Pre-session discussion and random musings

I have already covered most of the pre-session discussion in the mapping posts above. It was actually between sessions thirty nine and forty that it was suggested maybe the group should head south to deal with the ogres but, in the end, Ro won out with his urging to head north to the Crystal Tower, as he was very confident he knew exactly how to get there.

This session, we have a guest appearance from my brother (Be), who took over one of the NPC clerics in the prelate’s entourage.

The Actual Session

• De: Tannek the Sentinel, Level 6 Lawful Paladin
  • Grook the Guide, Level 5 Neutral Explorer
  • Balrite the Guardian, Level 5 Lawful Paladin
  • Pherrod the Hero, Level 4 Neutral Fighter (watching over the barony)
  • Uthred the Hero, Level 4 Lawful Destined Fighter
  • Kerol the Acolyte, Level 2 Lawful Cleric
    • Diefenbacker the Wolf Pup, Level 1 Neutral Dire Wolf
• Jo: Hoik the Spelunker, Level 5 Lawful Dwarven Delver
  • Cornan the Swordmaster, Level 3 Lawful Fighter
• Ro: Malketh the Thaumaturge-Exemplar, Level 5 Neutral Elven Spellsword
  • Dashiel the Theurgist, Level 3 Neutral Mage
• La: Arravis the Thaumaturge, Level 5 Lawful Mage
  • Ranlick Tiddlestick the Hood, Level 2 Neutral Thief
• Ag: Sircini the Sister-Disciple, Level 5 Lawful Priestess
  • Soronia the Bladesinger, Level 3 Lawful Bladedancer
• Be: Random Dude the Curate, Level 4 Lawful Cleric

The first thing to do this session was to return to the hall where Gregor’s armour was recovered from, and attempt to dispel the wards on the double doors which, everyone assumed, led to the Crysoclast Assembly. I thought they might skip this, as there was some genuine concern that they were meddling with a possible doomsday device. I was pleased they wanted to proceed.

However, after casting dispel magic, a detect magic determined that there was still a magical aura about the doors, and it was decided to leave them alone for now. Malketh’s plan to head north to seek out the crystal tower won the day.

There was some work to be done trying to work out what loot to take with them. It was determined that about half the total bulk accounted for about 90% of the value they’d recovered, so the pack animals were loaded up without the smaller, more valuable items, and the bulky low-value items were left behind.

They were able to close the doors to the vault, but they were no longer sealed, and could be opened with a push, otherwise they would have seriously considered leaving it all behind to collect later (that sounded like the possible makings of a hook for future campaign … one lone, lowly member of the expedition eventually makes it back to civilisation, with a story about all the loot left behind in the old vault).

The trek north is mostly uneventful. The group passed through an area of giant mushrooms, which are marked on one of their existing maps. Later, they arrive at an extremely wide meadow filled with flowers, which immediately raises great paranoia and suspicion.

Around this time, La remembers he has an owl familiar, and decides to send it up to see what can be seen. He could be using it to scout out absolutely everything, but he’s a bit paranoid about it being shot down by passing orcs, or attacked by a larger bird (I may or may not have helped plant the seeds of doubt).

Aravais reports a great, red crystal structure emerging from the forest to the north northwest, beyond some hills, and a circle of standing stones to the north northeast. His owl also sees a vast expanse of dead forest far to the east, and a line of hills north and north east of the standing stones.

There is some discussion that the stone circle may match one of the blue dots on the stone map, and perhaps they are a transport network. Malketh is especially intrigued by this idea.

The party is very worried about what might happen if they cross through the open field (it’s miles across), and decide to skirt around the outside. Along the way, they spot some ancient barrows on their right, and decide to investigate.

I hadn’t really expected them to be in this part of the world at this point but, fortunately, I had some different barrows prepared (built using the Barrowmaze random tomb generators), that I was able to slot in here.

The first barrow they explore already has the heavy stone seal broken. Despite the fact it may already have been looted, they decided to head in anyway. They manage to find a bit of treasure, although Hoik triggers some explosive runes and, to add insult to injury, ends up drenched in stagant, foul-smelling water. Hoik also sits on a wooden throne, but quickly gets off it as he feels an electrical shock and gets the definite sense the chair really doesn’t like him.

In the final chamber, the group finds some pillars with amethysts set into them. Their whole approach to this room is mostly one of great caution but, interestingly, once one pillar is inspected for traps, they relax and decide the place is safe. Fortunately, Hoik makes his save when attempting to remove the amethyst that actually does have a magical trap.

Having retrieved a little treasure from an open tomb, the party decides to try their luck with a sealed one. The PCs haven’t equipped themselves with any suitable equipment for busting in but, fortunately, their clerical allies came equipped with entrenching tools, and after an hour of effort the stone seal falls in, granting them access.

Inside this barrow they encounter a spectre, who drains yet more Con from Uthred, as well as some golems made of brick that rise from the floor and walls. The payoff for this much more dangerous barrow is only a scroll of magic mouth, and it’s decided not to carry on with their tomb robbing.

The next day, they continue the trek towards the crystal tower, heading into some hills. On their way through, they spot a constructed entranceway into a low cliff. As they approach cautiously, they guess that the tracks are likely to belong to either bugbears or werebears, although the intelligence they have indicates that the werebears are in hills north of the stone circle, not south of it.

Aravis really wants it to be werebears, and wants to slaughter them, because werebears are clearly evil (after all they can change shape, says the mage whose signature spell is skinchange). Others point out that the information they have is that the werebears are decent folk, but Aravis is adamant they should be slaughtered and looted.

At this point, I double check and confirm that La has Aravis’s alignment listed as Lawful, and ask him to confirm if this is correct – making it clear that it’s ok if it’s not, I just want to make sure I have the right information. La confirms that Aravis is Lawful, and recognises that his personal greed for loot may have overshadowed his intent for the character’s behaviour.

In any event, the group pulls back to a concealed vantage to watch the entrance and, a few hours later they see a group of twelve bugbears and a couple of heavily armoured humans entering the cave. After some discussion, the group isn’t convinced they can take on a bugbear lair, and refocus on getting to the tower.

Only an hour or two later, they top a rise and see a crystal structure about six miles away in the lowlands below. The party descends and makes camp not too far from the tower.

Further exploration will wait until next session.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

After the session, Ro superimposed the party's wilderness map over the stone map. The two known circles, and the "you are here" marker all seem to align to within acceptable margins of error.

I really hadn't expected this kind of thing (I probably should have, I guess, having put the map into the game world, but I was thinking it would take more of an active effort to search out markers). In any case, I'm impressed with both my players and the Alexandrian system that has gone a long way to enabling these processes (and making the outcomes really the result of player ingenuity, and not anything being handed them). (I'm also happy with myself that I seem to have made the stone map accurate enough that this technique actually works.)

 

[Sable Wyvern]

Just an FYI: I plan to do another big catch-up in early- to mid-February, which should see about 8 new session reports up. There will be war and conquest and a return to Dwimmermount.

 

[jgshinton]

Very exciting!

 

[Antariuk]

I registered here to say thank you for these reports, they were delightful to read and very informative. So interesting to see how your game developed over time (also overcame an almost-TPK). This thread reminds me in the best way possible of the Chronicles of the Grim Fist reports on the ACKS forums in that you tell us what happened, but also why you did certain things the way you did, and how that played out - or not. Great stuff!

 

[Bourbonjack]

Just an FYI: I plan to do another big catch-up in early- to mid-February, which should see about 8 new session reports up. There will be war and conquest and a return to Dwimmermount.

Looking forward to the next big update!

 

[Sable Wyvern]

So in the past couple weeks, not only have I not done any of these reports, I have also not done any of the basic session prep I should have been doing for the campaign itself. After 27 months, I'm about ACKSed out, and short on motivation. I discussed this with the group this weekend past, and set an in-game end-point based on the party's current plans.

I expect 3 - 6 real-time months left, with the end probably closer to sooner rather than later, based on general feedback. I probably won't get many full reports done, but I will endeavour to get some briefer summaries completed, as well as some sort of epilogue, in time for end of the campaign. I expect a few of my players will be happy to provide their own thoughts and feedback, once it's all over.

 

[Bourbonjack]

So in the past couple weeks, not only have I not done any of these reports, I have also not done any of the basic session prep I should have been doing for the campaign itself. After 27 months, I'm about ACKSed out, and short on motivation. I discussed this with the group this weekend past, and set an in-game end-point based on the party's current plans.

I expect 3 - 6 real-time months left, with the end probably closer to sooner rather than later, based on general feedback. I probably won't get many full reports done, but I will endeavour to get some briefer summaries completed, as well as some sort of epilogue, in time for end of the campaign. I expect a few of my players will be happy to provide their own thoughts and feedback, once it's all over.

2+ years is a good long run for a campaign!

 

[jgshinton]

I really enjoyed the write ups. I'm wondering if you have any closing thoughts on ACKS as a game?

 

[Sable Wyvern]

I really enjoyed the write ups. I'm wondering if you have any closing thoughts on ACKS as a game?

I've promised the players some kind of written epilogue, which I'll also pass on here. Before Dark Sun starts, I will get at least a brief summary of the missing sessions, and some kind of afterward. I will then also invite my players along to comment; there will be a few situations where I expect their thoughts will paint a somewhat different picture of events to my own.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

So, I had session 41 mostly written up, but never finished it off. It's worth posting here for the intro as much as anything, because it shows that back in October I was still eager for ACKS to continue -- but there were also signs that maybe my focus was drifting.

Session 41

14 October 2023

Pre-session discussion and random musings

As some of you may have noticed from other threads, I have recently been working on a Dark Sun Mythras conversion. De specifically is a big Dark Sun fan. I don’t think he’s ever been in a Dark Sun TTRGP, but he likes the setting and played the old SPI games. It, along with Dragonlance, is one of his two favourite D&D settings.

All this being the case, I asked him prior to the session if there is anything in particular he wants from a Dark Sun game. He’s eager to play a thri-kreen but, beyond that, didn’t have any specific themes, starting points etc …

However, he did surprise me by saying that he would be interested in a more directed game; ie, something with a more structured plot instead of the sandboxes I’ve been running recently. I’ve been reflecting on the current campaign as a result.

The group has never been short of something interesting to do in the current campaign, and I don’t think De is unhappy with how the game has gone (I’m confident he’s enjoying the current hexcrawl), but it has, to a very large extent, just been a series of short term goals, each of which isn’t obviously leading to anything of great or dramatic importance in-and-of-itself.

I know that La is sitting in the opposite corner to De – he is enjoying the absence of any overriding goal, or pressure to achieve particular goals, and just being able to constantly find and interact with new things.

When I raised this with the rest of the group, the general consensus was that no one else has strong feelings either way, so my Dark Sun planning is going to revolve around some key events and some more in-your-face plot hooks spaced over the campaign.

Anyway, it doesn’t directly impact the current campaign in any way, but it seemed relevant and worth mentioning.

What has had an impact is that, as we approach the 2 year anniversary of the campaign, and I get stuck back into my Dark Sun work, that I have felt increasing excitement about the next game, and my investment in the current game has been waning a little. I’ve actually done pretty well, as in the past it’s often the 12-18 month period where I start running out of steam.

Once the pre-session topic of conversation turned to Dark Sun, everyone seemed excited and interested about eventually getting to it. That further increased my own excitement, and made me worry about ACKS reaching a suitable conclusion.

However, writing the last few session reports has again helped me get back into the zone. There are still too many cool things to get to in ACKS, and I’m in no rush to wrap up the campaign. I can safely say some of my late-game ideas are not going to come to fruition, but I still believe we can transition into some true domain play, without it being forced or abrupt. We shall see.

The Actual Session

• De: Tannek the Sentinel, Level 6 Lawful Paladin
  • Grook the Guide, Level 5 Neutral Explorer
  • Balrite the Guardian, Level 5 Lawful Paladin
  • Pherrod the Hero, Level 4 Neutral Fighter (watching over the barony)
  • Uthred the Hero, Level 4 Lawful Destined Fighter
  • Kerol the Acolyte, Level 2 Lawful Cleric
    • Diefenbacker the Wolf Pup, Level 1 Neutral Dire Wolf
• Tr: Gregor the Drunken Myrmidon, Level 6 Neutral Fighter
  • Sivart the Theurgist, Level 3 Neutral Mage
  • Cynog Dyfri the Rover, Level 2 Neutral Gnomish Poet Warden
• Jo: Hoik the Spelunker, Level 5 Lawful Dwarven Delver
  • Cornan the Swordmaster, Level 3 Lawful Fighter
• Ro: Malketh the Thaumaturge-Exemplar, Level 5 Neutral Elven Spellsword
  • Dashiel the Magician, Level 4 Neutral Mage
• La: Arravis the Thaumaturge, Level 5 Lawful Mage
  • Ranlick Tiddlestick the Hood, Level 2 Neutral Thief

The group has finally arrived at the crystal tower. However, it is about 200 feet in diameter, and 200’ high, so the players agree it’s more of very big hut than a tower. It appears to have been carved from a single piece of red crystal, with no exterior windows.

There are some bearlike tracks leading in and out of the wide, open doors at ground level. Again, the group immediately starts thinking about werebears. Peering in the entrance, it is unnaturally dark and gloomy within, and the group is unable to make out what’s inside.

Cynig speaks to some local wildlife, who describe the occupants as “Flame that walks” and creatures that sounded like owlbears.

Arravis transforms into an owl, and Malketh casts invisibility on him, and he then flies inside to scout. As soon as he enters the tower, the gloominess disappears, and the interior is illuminated with a soft, reddish glow. The mage finds a room where four owlbears are nesting, and then follows a long staircase running around the perimeter of the tower. Near the next floor, he discovers a hole where a large section of the exterior wall has broken away. Flying out, he sees that the opening appears to be obscured by an illusion to appear as an unbroken wall.

He heads back down to the owlbear nest, assumes human form, and tests a door in the corridor opposite their lair. The creaking sound results in some movement and noise from the owlbears, and the mage hurries back outside before they come out to investigate.

It is decided to wait out the day, and have Arravis return the next day when he is able to cast skinchange again.

Early that night, there is a rumbling sound, and moments later a huge purple worm bursts from the earth, consuming one of the mules whole. Gregor and Tannek are able to form up a number of their crossbowmen, and keep their other hirelings under control, before joining the fray. Meanwhile, a second worm emerges on the clerical side of the camp.

In the end, the worms are taken down with only the loss of one mule and a crossbowmen, although many of the prelate’s men fled into the forest, and not all of them return. Most of the night is spent gutting the worms; inside one they find a sword and a ring, both of which radiate magic.

Arravis did not get the rest necessary to enable him to cast skinchange, so the party continues to rest though the following day. When a number of giant spiders attack the templar camp, they are despatched relatively quickly, but it’s decided to relocate.

Heading half a mile away, while the expedition is setting up their new encampment, a dozen centaurs approach. The group is beginning to understand that just hanging out in the forest until Arravis gets a comfy night’s sleep is easier said and done (even if they’re not disturbed, there’s no guarantee any given night counts as sufficient rest for spell slot recovery).

The centaurs advise that they consider this territory their own, but they don’t take any offense at the PC’s presence. They generally avoid the crystal hut, as there are decaying creatures that live within, dragging other creatures inside where they are turned into more of the same.

The centaurs also point out the general directions to various other groups – the bugbear lair the party has already found, savage humans living in moors to the south, gnolls to the northwest, and more barbarous humans further northwest.

Someone decided it would be handy to have a safe base of operations, and asks if the centaurs would allow them to shelter in their home village. The centaurs agree, but will only allow the PCs in if they prove their value by eliminating the lair of the gnolls, who call themselves the Teethbreakers.

A couple of centaurs are left with the PCs to guide them to the gnoll lair, while the rest move on.

The Teethbreakers are a couple of days away

 

[Sable Wyvern]

In the following sessions:

• The party eliminate the Toothbreaker gnolls. A group of the gnolls are encountered attempting to evacuate their lair, and are given permission to depart on the condition that they release their slaves. The gnolls agree, and then it turns out they are also leaving with three chest. The party renegotiates, and ends up with one of the chests. Some people are unhappy with letting the gnolls get away with anything, but the party was not at full strength and had already promised safe passage.
• The PCs strip down to essential gear and set out in pursuit of the gnolls. They are able to track them back the bugbear lair previously encountered. Khazi's Revenge urges Gregor to attack, before word spreads that the warhammer is present in the Ostwood and all the beastmen have fled before they can be be slain. However, Arravis conducts a recon as an invisible bat, and the lair seems to have stout defences. it is determined to leave the bugbears for now.
• The group rests in the centaur village, then heads back to the crystal tower. They fight a demonic creature and some hellhounds in a brief but very dangerous fight, and acquire a red crystal sceptre.
• The higher levels of the tower appear to be defended by undead and thick vegetation, and the party decides not to explore further.
• Back at the Vault of the Immortals, Tannek suggests they should not awaken the Chrysoclast assembly. The group asks the prelate for advice. The prelate points out that if the group leaves the Assembly here, others will surely seek to control it (he trusts the PCs, but he isn't going to hide the Vault's existence from the Church). Malketh suggest the prelate communes with Solinor. The prelate asks if they will abide by the results of his communion, and the group agrees.
• After communing, the prelate believes the PCs should awaken the Assembly, and he is happy to assist and support them.
• The Crysoclast Assembly is awakened, and make it clear they take orders from Gregor in his panoply. The PCs now have an army of about 2,500 men, with four weeks of supplies.
• Tannek wants to march south to take the fight to the forces of Impurax. Others are undecided. Marching south means they are likely to run out of supplies. Marching back to civilisation means they will either need to hand the army over to someone else, or start conquering immediately in order to gather the resources necessary to maintain the army.
• The decision is eventually made to march back to civilisation, to conquer Muntburg and return it to the authority of Onderlach.
• The Count of Muntburg learns of their return, and marshals his forces to oppose them. His ambush is nearly successfully, but the PC's scouts detect the enemy force and halt their march. The Count should withdraw at this point, but instead decides to stay and fight. There also should have been some negotiations and discussion, but everyone was excited for a mass battle, so this was skipped over, which did result in some confusion later.
• Things started poorly for the PCs, but Tannek's cavalry swept around a flank and were able to engage the enemy rear, at which point the Count's forces rapidly collapsed.
• With Muntburg's army routed, the PCs were able to march into the county and take over with only token opposition. One of the viscounts who took the field managed to escape and return to his own domain. He sent an envoy to the PCs suggesting that his talents at keeping the local brigands and ruffians under control would prove valuable to the new ruler, and encouraged them to allow him to retain his position. Some of the PCs were not happy with this blackmail while Gregor, who had personally faced the viscount on the battlefield, felt the man was due some respect and had earned some good will.
• There was some discussion about how the county would be split up. I wanted the players to be clear that if they set one of their own above them in the feudal order, this would have real-world implications. If they wanted to split the domain, or set themselves up as co-rulers, those were options, would have their own consequences. In order to help drive home the importance and power of rulership, I decided that, while they were able to split the spoils of war as normal, the XP bonuses for conquering would go exclusively to those who conquered and became rulers. Someone taking over a viscounty under the new count would not count as conquering anything. An independent viscount would earn conquering XP, but splitting the domain up like that would have political ramifications.
• It was eventually decided that Gregor would take over Muntburg, with Tannek to take over the wider area they ended up planning to conquer. Sircini gains a viscounty (the local county needs to be evicted with military force, although he doesn't force an actual siege or battle, and leaves with most of his wealth). Sivart is given another viscounty, while Malketh takes the area immediately around Dwimmermount as a barony.

More to come.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

• Following the conquest, the group needed to deal with a number of competing political factions, as well as to get a grasp on the current political climate.
  • The Count of Muntburg vacillated between showing the PCs respect for their power and success, and contempt for their failure to grasp the situation and thinking that they deserved to have accomplished anything. He considered his oaths of allegiance to his liege null and void, as the new Duke and the Prince had failed in their duty to support and defend the eastern duchies. He also pointed out that the conflict between the Church of Solinor and the Temple of Ishanna is being encouraged by Western lords, to their own ends. The Count asks to be handed over to the Count Prelate of Mitteldurchgang, or permitted to head east into the Ostwood to take the fight to whatever lurks there. He further advised that, if handed over to the Duke, he will be tortured and killed.
  • As mentioned, the Viscount of Faelmurch offers to pledge allegiance to the new count, and implies that there will (terribly unfortunately, wink wink, nudge nudge) be much banditry should he lose his position.
  • The Viscount of Veledon was caputured on the battlefield. He is happy to bend the knee, and also has relatives that will ransom him if the PCs don't want him as their vassel.
  • The Viscount of Aisonwech is also a captive, and wished to suffer whatever fate the PCs decide for the Count.
  • The Duke of Sonderberg demands that the PCs disband their army, swear fealty and hand over the count, who he will offer a significant reward for. He is content for the PCs to hold the county.
  • The Count-Prelate of Mitteldurchgang hopes for peace, and takes no sides.
  • Enovys from the Reverend Mother Fritze of Ishanna, and the Erste Bergherren hope that the PCs seek the restoration or order. They point out that the new duke has ransacked the temple of Ishanna, is another western lord (the Prince's son) who has no respect for the people he rules. They offer to help the PCs maintain their army over the winter for a campaign in spring.
  • Pherrod rejoins Tannek, and confirms the new duke has been quite bloodthirsty in is efforts to maintain order, and reprisals. He also indicates the Erste Bergherren are supporting banditry through Burgensdorf.
• The group eventually decides they will swear fealty to no-one, but march on High Sonderberg. Initially, they are willing to do the bulk of the work and then swear fealty to the Count of Nordsonder (who will be a new Archduke of the Western lords after they conquer Sonderburg and Burgensdorf. However, Gregor asks the Prelate to remain to act as an advisor, and (despite his affiliation with the Church of Solinor in Burgensdorf) allows the Prelate full access to all negotiations. The Prelate continues to support the PCs in good faith, and points out they're being conned, suggesting there is no reason for them to grant Count Nordsonder all this power.
• In the end, everyone agrees on a new distribution of land, with Tannek to become Archduke of Eastern Ondrlach, ruling from High Sonderberg, while Count Nordsonder becomes Duke of Burgensdorf. The exact location of the new ducal seat of High Sonderberg remains an open question, but Count Nordsonder has what he wants, and the other rebellious lords will fall in line behind him and the PCs.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

With the plans for the conquest of western Onderlach in place, the party has time to kill until Spring, and they now control the main entrance to Dwimmermount, so it's decided to return and continue exploration there. They recover some azoth, and a large haul of adamintine drums. They make friends with some wererats and exterminate some minotaurs, and one of they help the wererat leader escape Dwimmermount and head to High Sonderberg, where she plans to seek out the Rat Prince and serve as a contact in the city when the time comes for the party to take it.

They also meet some very strange dwarves, who end up turning out to be dopplegangers who steal a considerable sum of wealth from Count Gregor's treasury.

They spend a significant portion of the final session in discussion with a succubus, afraid to free her, but also afraid to leave without freeing her and suffer her wrath of someone else does. They end up deciding to try and kill the demon, release her instead, and then end up fighting a series of more powerful demons one after the other.

Their success in demon-killing motivates them to return to Mazen Kurz and deal with Pazuzu, who they are able to take down in a tough fight.

It's after this session that I realise I'm going to struggle to keep the game going indefinitely. Still, we're at what seem like a reasonable point in time to wrap things up nicely, and I let the group know that I'd like to wrap things up after they complete there conquest of eastern Onderlach.

The left De extremely disappointed. I thought that conquering a significant domain would sate his desires for conquest, but he had wanted a lot more than that, and wanted the game to spend some time at the domain level. To miss out on that was, I think I can safely say, bitterly disappointing and extremely deflating. He said to me that perhaps he had misunderstood what was on offer, but I had most definitely pitched the high-level, domain side of things as something I wanted and expected to see in the campaign, and I certainly understood why he felt unhappy to miss out. As I mentioned right at the very start of this thread, allowing De to experience domain play was one of my big objectives. so I certainly failed in that.

Over the coming weeks, it became apparent that while De had lost his enthusiasm for the campaign, everyone else was mostly ok with continuing, or ok with just calling it day. Ag was the main exception there, and he advised that he had struggled to really develop a sense of purpose with Sircini, and he would prefer to wait until the new campaign before rejoining us.

While I had still been fairly motivated to tie things up, it suddenly felt like we were just going to be going through the motions, and my motivation rapidly drained away as well.

The big lesson to me here, is that I need to stop planning for any game to go longer than two years. With all the best of intentions, and honestly believing I'd set myself up to be able to run this game indefinitely, it's clear now that it wasn't going to happen. I actually think that perhaps I did do the work necessary, and that the end of this game is something somewhat new (although similar to why my Covid-interruped Traveller campaign ended) in that years long campaigns are starting to make me think about my own mortality, and the fact that I only have so much time to run all the things I want to.

De will almost certainly say the level progression was too slow, and we should have got to domain play sooner. I kind of disagree, in that the pace was perfect for a zero-to-hero game that ends with domain play and, had I remained fully motivated and committed, there was absolutely another two years of campaign left to play, that would have been a lot more fulfilling for the foundation it was built on. In the last few sessions, one of the guys mentioned how we was looking at the political structure and, as the politics of Onderlach started to become highly relevant, they suddenly realised that this Principality that had been their whole world for the campaign was actually just a tiny corner of the world, and suddenly things were likely to open up on a much grander scale.

Of course, "the pace was perfect, in principle" doesn't help if you don't get to the domain stuff you want, but there are games where it feels more natural to move into domain play quicker (eg, Godbound) or even start there. If I'm ever to give De his domain fix at a future date, it certainly won't be in a zero to hero environment (or, if it is, it will be the resurrection of this campaign).

So, what would I do differently if I had my time over? Assuming I set out with the same original objective, to get back to some OSR-style dungeoneering, I guess I would play down the chances of domain play happening, creating more realistic expectations.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

Epilogue

With the aid of Krishka the wererat, the conquest of High Sonderberg is faster and easier than expected, with a number of rats helping troops enter the city at key points, opening gates from within and neutralising guards.

Between Gregor and his panoply, Tannek's intrinsic leadership, the support of both Ishanna and Solinor, and the Count of Nordsonder, the swift capture of the city sees the majority of the lords of Sonderberg ally themselves wholeheartedly to the cause.

Armies are also able to march on Bergensdorf sooner than expected, and before the Prince is able to reinforce the Duke. The fighting in many areas of Burgensdorf is bloody and vicious, but the city of Burgensdorf and other key locations are secured. With the Prince's son as a hostage, Tannek is able to negotiate favourable terms, seizing control of most, but not all of Burgensdorf.

Gregor becomes Duke of Sonderberg, Tannek Archduke of Eastern Burgensdorf. Your ally, the Count of Nordsdorf becomes Duke of Burgensdorf and, while it doesn't appear he is likely to betray you, it is also clear he is not going to be a pliant and submissive vassal.

There is another duchy up for grabs in southern Burgensdorf. This could go to one of Nordsdorf's friends or family to make him happy, but increase his power; or to another PC.

There is a schism in the local Church of Solinor, with the western Church consolidating power in Onderlach, and the Temple of Ishanna falling slowly out of favour in Onderlach city. Both competing Solinoran sects end up well established in Burgensdorf.

Sircini, if she wishes to do so, can establish a temple of Ishanna in Burgensdorf, High Sonderberg or elsewhere. Malketh builds his tower on the slopes of Dwimmermount, perhaps with the aid of Arravis.

However, with the Prince's son set to remain a hostage for at least a couple of years, there is an uneasy peace in Onderlach, and the western lords, at least, are celebrating the dawning of a new era of peace and rightful self-rule, free from the shackles of decadent western Princes.

For now, Dwimmermount keeps its deepest secrets. Sorrelblight is restless, and the cultists of Impurax continue their strange rites in the depths of the Ostwood. And word comes from the distant shores of the east that the fleet of a strange, foreign emperor, hailing from places unknown, has made landfall in the Principalities...

 

[Sable Wyvern]

GM's map of the second expedition in the Ostwood.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

Players' Final Wilderness Map

 

[Sable Wyvern]

The Battle of Muntburg Pass

 

[Sable Wyvern]

Apparently the board software thinks Tr's comments are spam, and doesn't want him to post.

This is what he wanted to say:

Tr here, good read, thanks for running the campaign.

Especially liked seeing the GM map at the end next to our own and comparing the thoughts from behind the screen to what I recall of my own at the time.

I have mixed thoughts on the large scale battle portion. While I found it enjoyable and a good variation, I'm just not very good at it, so at the time I was thinking "if we have to have fights that aren't heavily in our favour we're not going to do much conquering"

I enjoyed the variety of hex crawling, found the ration management to be a little on the painful side (I like that logistics is a factor, I just don't like having to keep track of it, I was very happy when Ro was around to take it on)

The fungari business and setting up the townhouse were highlights for me, I very much agree in liking the way that acks just accepts that adventurers are going to be wealthy and provides things to do with the money that are fun and interesting rather than having us just dump it all straight back into adventuring gear​

 

[Sable Wyvern]

Another comment from Tr. This wasn't something he planned to post here, but I think is also a highly relevant observation that bears repeating here:

I would also say that you 100% should have been more blunt and direct in telling us not to wait for higher levels to do domain stuff. I was 100% of the mindset that we were not wealthy/powerful enough characters to realistically consider having domains and it wasn't until we came back with an army that I really considered that going to war with the powers that be could be interpreted as anything less than a chaotic/evil path​

 

[yukiomo]

• The Count of Muntburg learns of their return, and marshals his forces to oppose them. His ambush is nearly successfully, but the PC's scouts detect the enemy force and halt their march. The Count should withdraw at this point, but instead decides to stay and fight. There also should have been some negotiations and discussion, but everyone was excited for a mass battle, so this was skipped over, which did result in some confusion later.
• Things started poorly for the PCs, but Tannek's cavalry swept around a flank and were able to engage the enemy rear, at which point the Count's forces rapidly collapsed.
• With Muntburg's army routed, the PCs were able to march into the county and take over with only token opposition...

Based on this and the terrain hexmap, am I reading this correctly in that you resolved this engagement using Domains at War: Battles? If so, can you talk more about your experience with it? I'm curious if this was your and/or your group's first time using it, or if there were several mass battles in the campaign's final sessions. I'd also be interested in your perspective on the merits of using a detailed mass combat system to resolve battles vs. something less detailed (e.g., D@W:C or something else) in terms of required playtime and system mastery.

Something else it'd be neat to hear is how it went running combats with a fairly large (i.e., 15+ party members) group of medium-level entities. Did it feel like the pace was slowing down as PCs leveled up and acquired more hitpoints and abilities, or were you able to maintain a decent clip even through the campaign's end?

 

[Sable Wyvern]

Based on this and the terrain hexmap, am I reading this correctly in that you resolved this engagement using Domains at War: Battles? If so, can you talk more about your experience with it? I'm curious if this was your and/or your group's first time using it, or if there were several mass battles in the campaign's final sessions. I'd also be interested in your perspective on the merits of using a detailed mass combat system to resolve battles vs. something less detailed (e.g., D@W:C or something else) in terms of required playtime and system mastery.

The battle was run with D@W: Battles, and was the first and only battle we ran (there would have been more, using a mix of Campaigns and Battles, if the campaign had continued).

It went well, and everyone seemed to have picked up the mechanics pretty well. It's not a complex system, and I think it has about the perfect balance between detail and ease of play to integrate into an RPG campaign, for players that may not be particularly keen wargamers.The one drawback is that it is fairly time consuming, and there were a number of PCs who didn't qualify to act as heroes, or whose units weren't really in the action, so not everyone is equally involved. This problem has the potential to be made worse if only part of an army ends up engaged.

I never ran anything using the abstract Campaign battle system, so I don't have a direct point of comparison there.

Something else it'd be neat to hear is how it went running combats with a fairly large (i.e., 15+ party members) group of medium-level entities. Did it feel like the pace was slowing down as PCs leveled up and acquired more hitpoints and abilities, or were you able to maintain a decent clip even through the campaign's end?

For me, one of the strengths of using B/X or AD&D-based rulesets is that it's perfectly suited to large scale skirmishes. Excluding the Domains at War battle mentioned above, the biggest fights we had, with 30+ combatants per side, lots of manoeuvre, multiple fronts and melee zones, etc, were done in under an hour. I didn't notice any noticeable slow-down, the only real difference that the higher levels made was the capacity to take on larger groups of enemies in the first place.

Smaller fights remained as fast as ever, with most wandering monster fights done in five minutes or less.

 

[Scarymother]

For anyone who read from the start, and just in case it matters, anyone reads this or cares, I was the player who kept the chronicle and am "De" in SW's thread (I also wrote the AD&D player-side thread on RPG.net that SW referred to pack in post #1).

The End
A couple of key quotes from this thread...

I very much hope we have a chance to engage in domain-level play, mass combat and the like later in the campaign. As I will elucidate below, the planned scope of this aspect of the game is also going to be something new for me.

If he had his way, De would have the group skip past all the low- and mid-level stuff straight to Domain management (which isn’t remotely an option, and not something he actively campaigned for).

De will almost certainly say the level progression was too slow, and we should have got to domain play sooner. I kind of disagree, in that the pace was perfect for a zero-to-hero game that ends with domain play...

The left De extremely disappointed. I thought that conquering a significant domain would sate his desires for conquest, but he had wanted a lot more than that, and wanted the game to spend some time at the domain level. To miss out on that was, I think I can safely say, bitterly disappointing and extremely deflating. He said to me that perhaps he had misunderstood what was on offer, but I had most definitely pitched the high-level, domain side of things as something I wanted and expected to see in the campaign, and I certainly understood why he felt unhappy to miss out. As I mentioned right at the very start of this thread, allowing De to experience domain play was one of my big objectives. so I certainly failed in that.

Yes, I was extremely disappointed... not entirely surprised though. When SW told us that we'd get to the next battle and then call it a day, I completely lost interest in the game (uncommon in my experience) to the point that I was happy to just toss it completely and move on.

By way of background, our AD&D campaign ended unceremoniously just as myself and another player (Da) were getting close to "Name" level and were looking to build a temple (I played a cleric) and a stronghold (he was a fighter) - and we were getting excited about the possibility.

As SW has elucidated, ACKS was "sold" (not that SW needs to convince me to play the games, but you know what I mean) on the basis of the strong mechanics for the "Conqueror" and the "King" part of the game and that we would have the chance to dive into the kind of game we missed out on at the end of AD&D. I don't recall any discussion about the fact the game would need to run for four years for that to happen. I wasn't looking for a "You conquer a town, congrats, game over" end, I wanted the "C" and "K" parts to be a significant part of the gameplay rather than an "endgame" experience.

Unfortunately, we ran out of time (as I predicted we would in discussion with Da after we were a handful of sessions in and still level 1). SW was obviously less tuned-in to the history of our games than I; I believe him when he says that he felt ACKS could run for a long time and had every intention of doing so, but I always knew that we had about two years.

SW gets excited about other systems on a regular basis and combined with a bit of understandable burn-out, leads the games to end in about that period of time.

In simplistic meme terms:

(SW seems to be always thinking about the next game and publishes a list of systems that he is considering running in preference-based categories... there's probably 30 years of RPGs on that list. It appears that he starts working on the next game about a year before it actually starts. In no way do I blame him for not running the game to fruition because his efforts are greatly appreciated.)

I was frustrated by the slow progression and asset acquisition (two things that you need in order to hire armies, command them and claim territory) because we were running against an invisible clock.


Conquering & Game Speed

I mentioned the phases of the game to my players, and I’ve made some idle comments about theoretical ways in which they can take power, but I think they’re mostly still thinking this is something for them to do much later in the game. I have no plans to make any more out-of-game suggestions about this kind of thing to them at all. In fact, if they steadfastly refuse to get involved with the upcoming events, there will be a bit of a natural lull for a while, and they will be able to naively assume everything is back to business as usual. But, before too long, I’m going to resume burning shit down, and see what (if anything) they want to do about it.

Another comment from Tr. This wasn't something he planned to post here, but I think is also a highly relevant observation that bears repeating here:

I would also say that you 100% should have been more blunt and direct in telling us not to wait for higher levels to do domain stuff. I was 100% of the mindset that we were not wealthy/powerful enough characters to realistically consider having domains and it wasn't until we came back with an army that I really considered that going to war with the powers that be could be interpreted as anything less than a chaotic/evil path​

...[De] is the player most likely to make a comment about the pace of levelling, he is the player seeing first hand that domains provide xp (and more xp, the bigger they get), yet he’s not putting two-and-two together here, and asking himself, “How do I go and get a bigger domain, instead of waiting for it to happen at 9th level?”

I did have a misconception about when we could start managing domains (in terms of characters not having to wait until L8+ like in AD&D) and I was happy to be given a Barony to manage at L5/6 (which was providing a couple of hundred XP per month).

However, the argument that we could/should have been aiming to do it earlier is a little difficult to swallow for the following reasons:
1. As written (and as we discovered when it came to battle of Muntberg Pass), IIRC the rules say that you have to be L7 to effectively command an army (L5 to effectively command a unit or to act as a hero). The L7 requirement had to be fudged so that Gregor could be the general (he was level 6 but with his special command armour).
2. Additionally, characters of lower levels just don't have the monetary resources to hire and feed an army (the character has not acquired sufficient gold [the source of XP]), let alone build a fortress. If we take a Paladin as a random example, to be level 8 you need 120,000XP. In broad terms, that means that (roughly and ignoring some fringe possibilities) the absolute maximum amount of wealth you could have accumulated would be 120,000gp. That sounds like a lot, but the "Crysoclast Assembly" we awoke (which was, admittedly a very large army) would have cost in excess of 50,000gp per month to pay and feed. Additionally, raising an army takes a lot of time (as SW pointed out to us, you'd need to visit multiple places and vacuum up whatever mercs you can find - so you're paying for people as the force gradually expands. Point being, you could run through your available cash pretty quickly making the whole exercise pretty pointless.

In our world, our choices were going to war with a potentially well-connected Lord (if we attack one, how many come to the party?), the only other option was to carve out a slice of people-free wilderness. Neither of those seemed like things we were capable of doing based on the resources we had.

Further, and to one of Tr's other points, I also felt a bit out of my depth when it came to the mass combat (SW loves war-games and so has an advantage in terms of tactics) and without a vastly superior force it would have been much, much harder (with an even-sized force I foresee that we could have easily lost that battle).

XP/Levelling in ACKS

Of course, "the pace was perfect, in principle" doesn't help if you don't get to the domain stuff you want, but there are games where it feels more natural to move into domain play quicker (eg, Godbound) or even start there.

Even aside from the fact we didn't get to any domain play, I dispute the idea that the pace was perfect... 44 sessions to reach level 7 (70k XP for the Pally) feels slow to me (AD&D equivalent was 26 sessions). Admittedly, Tannek did have a bunch of henchmen soaking up XP, but without them I don't think we would have been able to do a bunch of the things we did, so it may be a wash.

I noticed a question and comment or two about the levelling/XP in ACKS. To my mind, having gold/equivalent or gold from un-used magic items being the primary source of XP (killing monsters provides but a trickle) is fine as a mechanic. From the perspective of verisimilitude we the idea that finding gold is something that helps a character learn how to fight monsters better makes no sense, so we instead treat treasure as a proxy for experiences. On that basis, why does some treasure provide XP but not others? If we found a tapestry or a set of gold goblets, we could put that in our house and immediately extract XP for it, but not the magical sword we're using to hack down goblins with? No, the sword: you have to sell it without using it to get any XP benefit. Inconsistent, arbitrary, limiting and annoying.

SW occasionally reminds us that we could be taking more risks to earn higher rewards, but the overland jaunt covering sessions 13 to 16 was a bit of a fail in those terms.

To explain: we spent four sessions hex-crawling, freeing the selkies from their captors and looting the temple (referred to in the map in the Dwimmermount vault) and came away with 16k (for the entire group!) of XP, I was frustrated, bordering on annoyed. The reward for effort and danger faced (and in some cases avoided) in the forms of trolls, hippogriffs, hill giants, dire wolves and a village full of murderous psycopaths just wasn't there.

(It would have been worse if more players had been around for the final session where the loot was actually found. This was before an alternative rule of average participation was introduced for delves/adventures that covered multiple sessions was introduced).



Other responses/notes

It could get worse – on the way out, I roll a random encounter with four rust monsters (I didn’t realise they were on the random encounter list for this level, either). It’s quite late and I’m tired; destroying a bunch of magic gear at this point is going to make people unhappy; and – most importantly – looking at the party’s location on the map, I’m not quite sure how these creatures could have “wandered” to where the party is at the time of the encounter. I’m don’t want to run any encounter, even less a “fuck you” encounter, if I can’t find a logical way of explaining how it could have eventuated, so I decide to ignore the result. Next time they’re down this way, I will have to start placing some rusty stains here and there, though.

In my view, rust monsters exist only for a GM to arbitrarily remove valuable items from parties. I can guarantee that if we'd lost any of our (I think relatively small number) magical items to a random encounter I (and probably we) would have been pissed.

I am grateful to SW for ignoring that dice result.

I definitely do feel that the surprise mechanism is an important part of the game, especially while dungeoneering. It’s not necessarily intended to be a fun mechanic in-and-of-itself, but it’s one of those things where it is stacked against the PCs (who are crashing around the dungeon in a group of 15+, carrying light), and overcoming that is part of the challenge.

De commented on the arbitrary fact that all the monsters have infravision, and the gaminess of it – not as a complaint, just an observation. He was quite disgusted when I let him know that the original rule was that monsters lose their infravision any time they’re working for the PCs.

Because some mechanics exist just to remind you that you're playing a game.

I don't necessarily mind that some creatures can see in the dark, but the idea that every enemy that lives in a dungeon can see perfectly well in pitch-black is kinda dumb.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

I don't recall any discussion about the fact the game would need to run for four years for that to happen.

It's hard to say for sure, but I think I was probably feeling/hoping for about three years of play prior to the campaign start.

If the game did continue for another two years, that would have been two years of solid, actual domain play.

In retrospect, I do feel foolish letting myself believe I'd stick with it for much more than two years, but it still does feel like I had a solid basis for feeling that way, beyond a simple refusal to accept reality; my prep was thorough and different, and for a long time, running the game really was effortless. Nevertheless, I was wrong, and need to adjust my expectations moving forward, no matter how much I want to convince myself "this game will be different."

I was actually thinking about The Enemy Within campaign (for Warhammer) the other day, and acknowledge to myself that, if I run it, I most likely won't run Part 5, as it will require the most work to adapt, and by the time we get there, I probably won't be up for it.

 

[AsenRG]

Welcome to the Pub, Scarymother !

Your points remind me of some of my own on this and other fora, (except for the rust monster).

 

[Scarymother]

Welcome to the Pub, Scarymother !

Your points remind me of some of my own on this and other fora, (except for the rust monster).

What part of the rust monster part are we misaligned?

 

[AsenRG]

What part of the rust monster part are we misaligned?

On the core part of your objection, I'm afraid: that "rust monsters exist only for a GM to arbitrarily remove valuable items from parties".

Now, can it be used in this manner? Sure, and no doubt some Refs would. (And then this matter is between them and their groups).

OTOH, if a monster is in one of my games, it's there because I believed the ecology of the setting demanded (or at least allowed) it, or a random table said it's there (but said tables would presumably include mostly stuff that fits the area). That's not the Referee's doing - and conversely, how much the PCs and/or players hate it, is simply irrelevant. The Referee is simply there to present the setting, and by doing so, I'm doing my part of the whole "playing the game" job!

Thus, I'm not "removing any of your items", not any more than I'd be "turning your PCs into egg incubators", were we to play the Aliens RPG by Fria Ligan, or a similar game...



As a counter example, I've been opposing the part where you need to sell magic items to get a bonus for...well, since I became aware of the rule that many OSR games are using! I mean, they don't require you to spend the gold, why do you need to sell the sword?!?

 

[Scarymother]

On the core part of your objection, I'm afraid: that "rust monsters exist only for a GM to arbitrarily remove valuable items from parties".

Now, can it be used in this manner? Sure, and no doubt some Refs would. (And then this matter is between them and their groups).

OTOH, if a monster is in one of my games, it's there because I believed the ecology of the setting demanded (or at least allowed) it, or a random table said it's there (but said tables would presumably include mostly stuff that fits the area). That's not the Referee's doing - and conversely, how much the PCs and/or players hate it, is simply irrelevant. The Referee is simply there to present the setting, and by doing so, I'm doing my part of the whole "playing the game" job!

Thus, I'm not "removing any of your items", not any more than I'd be "turning your PCs into egg incubators", were we to play the Aliens RPG by Fria Ligan, or a similar game...

The lack of agency you grant to GM's is kinda bizarre, but even if you say that the GM is there solely to present the content of a module/dungeon/adventure written by someone else (which is the only time that argument is relevant), then substitute "GM" for "module writer".

The powers of the rust monster (which are pretty much identical to their earliest incarnations) are so specific as to solely exist for one reason: to destroy metal items. Hell... they don't even do damage and presumably would stop attacking a party if they had been stripped of all metal or never carried any.

Noting that the monster was created by Gary "Killing characters is my business and business is good" Gygax and In the context of the way (at least) some of his modules were written (which included a lot of "This may or may not make sense but exists mainly to test/kill the characters"), the monster was definitely created with that aim in mind.

Additionally, the idea that there would be some "ecology" that would demand/allow them to exist is also weird to me. Where would that be, exactly? They (at least according to their AD&D forebears, but not discussed in the ACKS documentation) obtain their sustenance from metals (particularly ferrous metals) and also are exclusively subterranean. So... there'd need to be somewhere that (presumably un-rusted) ferrous metals exist... the problem being that ferrous metals rust when exposed to oxygen and tend only to exist in ore form. Hence, you're limiting the biomes that would support rust monsters to a vanishingly small subset... maybe a place where non-reactive metals exist (eg gold).

Sorry dude... that argument doesn't really hold up either.

 

[Bourbonjack]

I went back and reread the first post, and it seems like 2years of prep created a 2 year campaign. I’m curious why this campaign came to a halt?

There were multiple mega dungeons that had significant amounts left to explore.

And the campaign had come to a point where the players could drive the action.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

I went back and reread the first post, and it seems like 2years of prep created a 2 year campaign. I’m curious why this campaign came to a halt?

There were multiple mega dungeons that had significant amounts left to explore.

And the campaign had come to a point where the players could drive the action.

I think ultimately it just comes down to the nitty-gritty of running the game ceasing to excite me, and a desire to do something new.

It's definitely 100% on me -- Ag was the only player whose interest was waning (in his case, it was an inability to really get a strong feel for what he wanted to achieve with Sircini).

It seems to just be some fundamental issue I have, where I struggle to run games any longer than this. At the start of the campaign, I thought I had developed a way around it, but the urge to move on crept up on me. Part of it is definitely looking at the huge list of games I still have, that I would like to run, and wondering if I actually have enough time left to get through them.

 

[AsenRG]

The lack of agency you grant to GM's is kinda bizarre, but even if you say that the GM is there solely to present the content of a module/dungeon/adventure written by someone else (which is the only time that argument is relevant), then substitute "GM" for "module writer".

No - I said "the setting", not the adventure. Whether the adventure is written by the Referee or by someone else is of zero consequence.

The powers of the rust monster (which are pretty much identical to their earliest incarnations) are so specific as to solely exist for one reason: to destroy metal items. Hell... they don't even do damage and presumably would stop attacking a party if they had been stripped of all metal or never carried any.

"How did the monks pass by the rust monsters? Oh, wait!"

Noting that the monster was created by Gary "Killing characters is my business and business is good" Gygax and In the context of the way (at least) some of his modules were written (which included a lot of "This may or may not make sense but exists mainly to test/kill the characters"), the monster was definitely created with that aim in mind.

I fully believe that. And, with my approach, I've never used one of those in 25 years.
But, if the setting demanded it - or if I was using a random table which included a rust monster - I'd spring it without a second thought. Even if your party had just acquired the Plate Armour Of Divine Dominance.

Additionally, the idea that there would be some "ecology" that would demand/allow them to exist is also weird to me. Where would that be, exactly? They (at least according to their AD&D forebears, but not discussed in the ACKS documentation) obtain their sustenance from metals (particularly ferrous metals) and also are exclusively subterranean. So... there'd need to be somewhere that (presumably un-rusted) ferrous metals exist... the problem being that ferrous metals rust when exposed to oxygen and tend only to exist in ore form. Hence, you're limiting the biomes that would support rust monsters to a vanishingly small subset... maybe a place where non-reactive metals exist (eg gold).

About the only ecology that would have them would be one where rust monsters destroy all metal within a 1-km range and then hibernate until detecting more (which might be an adventuring part passing by). Obviously, in this case, they'd be bio-weapons released in a magical war.
Also, the likely place to find them is a desert or similar place without much human traffic.
Vanishingly small amount of biomes, you say? Well, yes, and there's a reason why I haven't used them yet!

 

[Sable Wyvern]

I only recently discovered the Planescape has rust monsters that go up to 11 (actually, they're probably more like 111). They make an effort to use them in an interesting way, though.