Sell Me On/Off Traveller or Cepheus

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zarion

zarion

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What's the difference between Traveller and Cepheus?

In your opinion, which system is better and why?

What should I use to run my shiny new copy of 2300AD?

Any other Traveller tips or advice would be appreciated as I have heard about it but never played or really read it. I know PCs don't get XP but can characters actually die during character creation?
 
zarion said:
What's the difference between Traveller and Cepheus?

In your opinion, which system is better and why?

What should I use to run my shiny new copy of 2300AD?

Any other Traveller tips or advice would be appreciated as I have heard about it but never played or really read it. I know PCs don't get XP but can characters actually die during character creation?
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Death during character generation is only a thing in the original versions I believe. God I love that aspect. No real good reason why but it's fun.
 
zarion said:
What's the difference between Traveller and Cepheus?
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Which version of Traveller?

There is
Classic Traveller
Mega Traveller
Traveller New Era
Marc Miller's Traveller (T4)
GURPS Traveller
Hero Traveller
D20 Traveller
Mongoose Traveller 1e
Mongoose Traveller 2e
Traveller 5e
Cepheus

Then there is the Third Imperium setting. Some version of Traveller are a general purpose science fiction RPG while other are the Third Imperium RPG.

zarion said:
In your opinion, which system is better and why?
Click to expand...

I think Mongoose Traveller 1e is a very good edition of Traveller. Cleaner than Classic Traveller while retaining most of it good points. Cepheus is largely a clone of MgT1e so I consider it in the same light.

MgT2e is equally as good it is nearly the same system.

zarion said:
What should I use to run my shiny new copy of 2300AD?
Click to expand...

If you mean the following

Mongoose Publishing

www.mongoosepublishing.com www.mongoosepublishing.com

Then Mongoose Traveller 1st edition followed by Cepheus which is a clone of MgT1E. Cepheus advantage is that many of the 3rd Party products focus on the same style of Alien-Expanse-Outland science fiction that 2300AD does.

zarion said:
Any other Traveller tips or advice would be appreciated as I have heard about it but never played or really read it. I know PCs don't get XP but can characters actually die during character creation?
Click to expand...
If you were into making your own setting I would go with my How to Make a Traveller Sandbox

I recommend looking at the Traveller Adventure is pretty covers all the basic and comes in the original Classic version and an updated version for Mongoose Traveller. The Pirates of Drinax is newer for Mongoose Traveller and pretty good.

Also check out the wide range of Cepheus products.
Hostile goes along well with 2300AD

Finally 2300AD started out as it own thing. A spin off of a game played at GDW taking the situation described in Twilight 2000 out to the year 2300AD. They recorded the result and reworked into a background for an RPG. It had a 1st edition called very very confusingly Traveller:2300AD. Nearly everybody thought it was going to be to be about the Third Imperium early history called the Interstellar Wars. But it was more of a hard science fiction setting in the spirt of Alien, Aliens, and Outland. There was a 2nd edition just called 2300AD also its own system.

Then decades later Mongoose came out with a 2300AD sourcebook for Mongoose Traveller 1e. Now it just another Traveller setting.
 
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zarion said:
What's the difference between Traveller and Cepheus?

In your opinion, which system is better and why?
Click to expand...
Mongoose Traveller 1E and Cepheus are virtually identical, just some minor stuff in the weapons (recoil and autofire) and some weapon stats. Cepheus careers don't have events. To be honest you'd struggle to remember the differences.

Mongoose 2E has a advantage/disadvantage mechanic, adds jail and university to character generation, Spaceship and Vehicle rules are cleaner, skills are reorganised. Again though it's quite similar overall.

Cepheus Light basically has a much smaller skill list, simpler combat and space ship design and simplifies the resolution system. Skills are just 2d6 + Skill not 2d6 + Attribute + Skill

All are simpler rule systems than the original Classic Traveller from the 70s/80s which is quite complex and clunky in places.

The Official Traveller Third Imperium setting was also ported to d20, GURPS and so on. However I assume the question is about the Traveller system not its setting so I won't bother with these.

Cepheus Light is best if you want a light system, Mongoose Traveller 2E is the best if you want a crunchier more complete system.
 
Probably the suggestions above are best.

That said, the things I like about 1977 Classic Traveller (note that Classic Traveller really does benefit from being split at least into 1977 and 1981/The Traveller Book/Starter Traveller):

1. Having run a lot of "Traveller" in the 80s and for a while really getting into tons of equipment choices, weapons choices, and "realistic" skills, I have come to the conclusion that all of that turns into a losing battle of trying to cover every angle. Recent (within the past decade or so) discussion has pointed out how in original Classic Traveller the skills could be taken not so much as the characters Resume/CV, but a set of things the character was good at in stress situations. By stopping trying to characterize everything the character is competent at with a skill, you can use a smaller skill list aimed at the things that are interesting stress situations in the game. That's not EXACTLY how I play it, but it's a big help. The more skills you have and the more defined they are, the more tempting to read them as the definition of what the character is competent at.

2. I like the Classic Traveller combat system, and I like the wonky damage of the 1977 weapons. The system creates more differentiation between weapons and armor while keeping a small list of each. If you really need more military weapons, Book 4 Mercenary nicely adds those.

3. I like the simple ship design/specification system and the simple combat system (and look at Starter Traveller which is FREE! for a nice range band ship combat system).

But it's going to be easier to use Mongoose 2300 AD with Mongoose Traveller or Cepheus.

Frank
 
Bunch said:
Death during character generation is only a thing in the original versions I believe. God I love that aspect. No real good reason why but it's fun.
Click to expand...
The thing is that it balances out the life path system. You always have to weigh the risks verses the gains when you stand to lose it all. It gives the character creation mini-game high stakes to play for.
 
There is a shiny new version (of 2300AD) coming, as a box set supplemental setting, for Mongoose Traveller (2nd edition) in the coming year.

My view is that, with it’s full colour presentation, raised production values and the full extent of the games setting support, there is has never been any better version of Traveller than the current one by Mongoose. If you can, get the Starter Box which actually is the full core rules with large maps, pre-gens and a mini campaign to get you going. Unfortunately, I believe it sold out, so it may be difficult now. The Core Rules hardback is still identical in content though (just without the campaign). It’s playable from the core alone, although if you want to design ships and vehicles outside of the ones provided, then you’ll want the High Guard and Vehicles books respectively.

Character generation is a game within a game, as with other versions, and the rest of the game system is actually pretty straightforward and intuitive - as much so as the current D&D game. It’s an accessible beginners game. The Traveller Companion book gives a lot more options for play, including alternative character generation systems. The difference between editions for MgT1 and MgT2 lies in the presentation and clarity of rules (both improved in the latter) but also the objective in the 2nd edition is much less in being a generic sci-fi engine and more focussed on deeper setting support for existing IPs.

Where the 2E really shines is in the supplementary campaign packs that exist for it now - Pirates of Drinax, The Great Rift and Elemental Cruisers. There is an imminent release coming for the Deepnight Revelation Campaign, which was Kickstarted last year, while Mercenary and The Fifth Frontier War books. A lot of these releases are complimentary for building different types of campaigns and have spectacular resources included. You could also just get a sector-based book, like Behind The Claw (the classic Spinwards Marches sector included) and just do a traditional free trading Firefly-type campaign. The 2300AD box set will be a different setting, but will also be a campaign box. There is a Traveller version of Mindjammer for it too. In short, it is a very well supported game which allows for a large variety of campaigns.

The game itself is very well explained from Seth Skorkowsi with a series of detailed reviews. The Starter Set is reviewed here:



In comparison with other versions of the game, I’d say the Classic game (which is available as the Traveller Book and available for POD) is a classic for a reason and is worth picking up and playing still. The rest of the resulting editions tend to increase the complexity of the game and Marc Miller’s T5 (the latest) is interesting but in no way accessible to casual players. GURPS Traveller was a well supported game for a while. Cepheus is essentially where 3rd party publishers mostly went to when the details of the license changed from MgT1 - personally, I’ve not found anything that is compelling enough for me to be interested in, but others may have something they like. Most of these games retain a degree of compatibility and cross over use.
 
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Fenris-77 said:
Wait, doesn't Mythras do that?
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Actually, I did find a conversation going from 2300 to BRP. I'm sure combined with M-Space I could hack it. However, Traveller seems to have a certain mystique to it that makes me want to try it simply because I never have. I will admit character creation looks complicated, but it sounds like a lot of the charm of Traveller comes from character generation.
 
zarion said:
View attachment 24951
The one I got looks like this.
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Yep, that is the version used for Mongoose Traveller 1st edition. It can still be used mostly for the 2nd edition, so don’t discard it, but the new version that is coming is likely to be a lot more spectacular in presentation. Of the two settings, I prefer the ‘hard sci-fi’ of 2300AD over the Third Imperium Setting, so I am really looking forward to it.
 
zarion said:
Actually, I did find a conversation going from 2300 to BRP. I'm sure combined with M-Space I could hack it. However, Traveller seems to have a certain mystique to it that makes me want to try it simply because I never have. I will admit character creation looks complicated, but it sounds like a lot of the charm of Traveller comes from character generation.
Click to expand...
M-Space is not officially Traveller, but if you like BRP/Mythras games, then it does capture much of the essence of Classic Traveller as a sleek set of generic sci-fi rules. Not many other games do, in my view.
 
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I only own some of the original traveller Black books, whatever edition that is. Haven't used them in a dog's age though.
 
zarion said:
I will admit character creation looks complicated,
Click to expand...
But oh so easily automated

Classic Traveller Character Generator (with Citizens of the Imperium)


Code: 
Merchant 3rd Officer Wen Ivanov    B778C2    Age 26
2 terms                        Cr100,000

Skills: Electronics-1, Gunnery-1, Navigation-2, Streetwise-1

Service History:
Rolled attributes: B778C2
Attempted to enlist in Merchants.
Enlistment roll 7 + 3 vs 7
Enlistment accepted.
--------------------------------------------
Term 1 age 22
Commission roll 6 + 1 vs 4
Commissioned during first term of service as 4th Officer.
Promotion roll 12 + 0 vs 10
Promoted to 3rd Officer.
Learned Electronics-1
Learned Streetwise-1
Learned Navigation-1
Improved Navigation-2
Survival roll 7 + 2 vs 5
Reenlistment roll 11 vs 4
Voluntarily reenlisted for second term.
--------------------------------------------
Term 2 age 26
Promotion roll 9 + 0 vs 10
Learned Gunnery-1
Survival roll 7 + 2 vs 5
Reenlistment roll 3 vs 4
Denied reenlistment after second term.
--------------------------------------------
Mustered Out
40,000 credits
40,000 credits
20,000 credits
 
A 6 term character

Code: 
Hunter Isidora Silva    6CCC39    Age 42
6 terms                        Cr25,000

Skills: Auto Rifle-2, Gravitics-1, Hunting-2, Mechanical-1, Survival-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1

Benefits: 6,000/yr Retirement Pay, Auto Rifle, Low Passage, Safari Ship

Service History:
Rolled attributes: 6BAA39
Attempted to enlist in Hunters.
Enlistment roll 6 + 3 vs 9
Enlistment accepted.
Learned Hunting-1
--------------------------------------------
Term 1 age 22
Increased dexterity by 1 to C
Increased endurance by 1 to B
Survival roll 11 + 0 vs 7
Reenlistment roll 5 vs 3
Voluntarily reenlisted for second term.
--------------------------------------------
Term 2 age 26
Learned Survival-1
Increased intelligence by 1 to B
Survival roll 9 + 0 vs 7
Reenlistment roll 7 vs 3
Voluntarily reenlisted for third term.
--------------------------------------------
Term 3 age 30
Learned Mechanical-1
Increased strength by 1 to 7
Survival roll 8 + 0 vs 7
Reenlistment roll 7 vs 3
Voluntarily reenlisted for fourth term.
--------------------------------------------
Term 4 age 34
Learned Auto Rifle-1
Learned Gravitics-1
Survival roll 7 + 0 vs 7
Aging strength throw 10 vs 8
Aging dexterity throw 9 vs 7
Aging endurance throw 9 vs 8
Reenlistment roll 4 vs 3
Voluntarily reenlisted for fifth term.
--------------------------------------------
Term 5 age 38
Improved Hunting-2
Learned Wheeled Vehicle-1
Survival roll 10 + 0 vs 7
Aging strength throw 4 vs 8
Decreased strength by -1 to 6
Aging dexterity throw 7 vs 7
Aging endurance throw 8 vs 8
Reenlistment roll 6 vs 3
Voluntarily reenlisted for sixth term.
--------------------------------------------
Term 6 age 42
Increased endurance by 1 to C
Increased intelligence by 1 to C
Survival roll 8 + 0 vs 7
Aging strength throw 10 vs 8
Aging dexterity throw 9 vs 7
Aging endurance throw 9 vs 8
Reenlistment roll 3 vs 3
Retired after sixth term.
--------------------------------------------
Mustered Out
10,000 credits
5,000 credits
10,000 credits
Low Passage
Safari Ship
Auto Rifle
Improved Auto Rifle-2
 
Alas Milagrosa we hardly knew ye

Code: 
† Scout Milagrosa Lee    9766A7    Age 26
2 terms

Service History:
Rolled attributes: 9766A7
Attempted to enlist in Scouts.
Enlistment roll 7 + 3 vs 7
Enlistment accepted.
Learned Pilot-1
--------------------------------------------
Term 1 age 22
Improved Pilot-2
Learned Computer-1
Survival roll 9 + 0 vs 7
Reenlistment roll 8 vs 3
Voluntarily reenlisted for second term.
--------------------------------------------
Term 2 age 26
Learned Jack-o-T-1
Learned Mechanical-1
Survival roll 4 + 0 vs 7
Death in service.
 
zarion said:
Actually, I did find a conversation going from 2300 to BRP. I'm sure combined with M-Space I could hack it. However, Traveller seems to have a certain mystique to it that makes me want to try it simply because I never have. I will admit character creation looks complicated, but it sounds like a lot of the charm of Traveller comes from character generation.
Click to expand...
I created some references for a campaign I ran last year.

Traveller Referee Reference

If you opt for Classic Traveller I suggest getting this
Judges Guild Traveller Referee Screen
 
zarion said:
In your opinion, which system is better and why?
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I don't know about "better". It depends on what you want out of the system and how you want your Traveller presented to you.

Personally, I like Cepheus Engine because of its similarities to MGT1e, and because I didn't really need the changes brought about by MGT2e.

Cepheus is also far more affordable than investing in MGT2e. If you're the type of gamer that wants a solid rules core but can sacrifice production values, then I'd recommend Cepheus. If you're a gamer that's more attracted to full-color (expensive) books and wants a nice-looking collection on your shelf, then MGT2e will have far more appeal to you.
 
K_Peterson said:
If you're a gamer that's more attracted to full-color (expensive) books and wants a nice-looking collection on your shelf, then MGT2e will have far more appeal to you.
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Not just quality of appearance but quality of writing too. Pirates of Drinax is a magnificent campaign with some great plot hooks and storyline, as an example.
 
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Trippy said:
Not just quality of appearance, but quality of writing too. Pirates of Drinax is a magnificent campaign with some great plot hooks and storyline, as an example.
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I don't have any exposure to MGT2e beyond the core book. So, I was only using that as my basis of comparison. MGT2e may have some great campaigns, but that's outside the scope of what I'm talking about.

I think you brought up a good point with an earlier post - Cepheus/MGT1e is a foundation for a generic (but still Traveller-assumption-based) Scifi campaign. And MGT2e focuses more on supporting their IPs. So, that would also shape my recommendation for the OP - what's more appealing: a toolkit to build your own Scifi campaign, or would you prefer to play a campaign in one of Mongoose's IPs?
 
K_Peterson said:
I think you brought up a good point with an earlier post - Cepheus/MGT1e is a foundation for a generic (but still Traveller-assumption-based) Scifi campaign. And MGT2e focuses more on supporting their IPs. So, that would also shape my recommendation for the OP - what's more appealing: a toolkit to build your own Scifi campaign, or would you prefer to play a campaign in one of Mongoose's IPs?
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Yeah, that's why I like Cepheus Engine - I like to create and run my own settings, not run someone else's setting.
 
Trippy said:
Cepheus is essentially where 3rd party publishers mostly went to when the details of the license changed from MgT1 - personally, I’ve not found anything that is compelling enough for me to be interested in, but others may have something they like. Most of these games retain a degree of compatibility and cross over use.
Click to expand...
The only Cepheus 3PP products that have impressed the hell out of me have been released by Zozer Games. Hostile, Zaibatsu. They don't reach MGT2e's production values (and perhaps writing?), but I think they're pretty well done. Especially if you're into the Scifi genres they model.
 
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