Well now that WOTC have given Paizo another gift, tell me of Pathfinder 2

[Toadmaster]

Since it is looking like Pathfinder 2 is likely to become the new default game in open spaces, I guess it is time to learn more about it. I'm guessing it is inevitable and just a matter of time before it ends up on the shelf beside D&D3, 5 and PF1.

I found a few posts scattered, mostly a year or two old, so thought I'd try to see what the thoughts are 3 years in.

When it first came out the scuttlebutt was it was going to be even crunchier than PF1, which was not a good thing to me, and since D&D 5E seemed healthy (how quickly things can change) and PF1 seemed to still be cruising along I didn't look into PF2 beyond following a few early posts.

I'm not against crunchy, I like a lot of crunchy games but I didn't like the crunch in 3E (too much work for the pay out, I'd rather play HERO, GURPS, Mythras etc something where the work actually pays off). After 3E I figured out I like my "D&D" style games on the lighter side.


My primary interest is the same as 5E, simply the high volume of players making it easier to find games.


So how has it worked out for those who are playing it. Improvement on PF1, just different, worse?

Is it really crunchier than PF1?


You can consider this a sell me on thread.

If it helps in pointing out ups and downs my favorite game systems are HERO, GURPS and the BRP family. My current favorite "OSR" (class / level fantasy) is Beyond the Wall which I'm liking for the low workload on the GM while still providing fairly broad player options.

 

[Silverlion]

Since it is looking like Pathfinder 2 is likely to become the new default game in open spaces, I guess it is time to learn more about it. I'm guessing it is inevitable and just a matter of time before it ends up on the shelf beside D&D3, 5 and PF1.

I found a few posts scattered, mostly a year or two old, so thought I'd try to see what the thoughts are 3 years in.

When it first came out the scuttlebutt was it was going to be even crunchier than PF1, which was not a good thing to me, and since D&D 5E seemed healthy (how quickly things can change) and PF1 seemed to still be cruising along I didn't look into PF2 beyond following a few early posts.

I'm not against crunchy, I like a lot of crunchy games but I didn't like the crunch in 3E (too much work for the pay out, I'd rather play HERO, GURPS, Mythras etc something where the work actually pays off). After 3E I figured out I like my "D&D" style games on the lighter side.


My primary interest is the same as 5E, simply the high volume of players making it easier to find games.


So how has it worked out for those who are playing it. Improvement on PF1, just different, worse?

Is it really crunchier than PF1?


You can consider this a sell me on thread.

If it helps in pointing out ups and downs my favorite game systems are HERO, GURPS and the BRP family. My current favorite "OSR" (class / level fantasy) is Beyond the Wall which I'm liking for the low workload on the GM while still providing fairly broad player options.

I was not a D&D 3E or 3.5E fan, but I had a friend who loved Pathfinder 1E deeply so I tried it. Yes 1E was pretty much D&D3.5E with some minor changes (and some very imbalanced things, which is well D&D.)

Recently, I gave 2E Pathfinder a shot as well. I quit because I just couldn't deal with the rules mess and struggle anymore.

I noticed that combat was more complex (now you had to use things outside rolling to hit, to hopefully bring down a target's defenses/AC so you had a chance to hit them.

My character was a monk, and the GM chose a dungeon crawl which well isn't a thing I like but well I was going to give the game a try. My feeling from playing is: the ACs were too high. Enemies hit too often and did too much damage to PCs when the PCs could not return in significant amounts. It happened so often that my monk (basically decent hit points, armor class, etc for a low-level character) was losing half his health every encounter. Forcing us to literally crawl through the dungeon from encounter to encounter. The GM said it should get easier but it never reached an equilibrium, we were always outmatched.

Plus there is SO much crunch. So many little things you can take, and use, and a lot of it is useful, only in very limited situations. I'm always willing to give a game some time and a try if it's not got super offensive content, but man, I just felt bored and annoyed trying to play the game.

 

[migo]

My primary interest is the same as 5E, simply the high volume of players making it easier to find games.

This doesn't answer your question about Pathfinder 2e - I have no experience with it - but when I was following the D&D Next playtest and saw it was going in a direction I didn't like, I also saw it was a lot like Castles & Crusades. C&C isn't a big player like PF, but it is a long time player, and it can be presented as a less-crunchy 5e. If you have players that are soured on D&D because of WotC's practices, but otherwise liked the system, you might be able to sell them on it.

And last I checked they still had the PHB as a free PDF download.

 

[EmperorNorton]

Just to preface: PF2e is my favorite "D&D" version. if I was going to start a game that was meant to be "D&D-esque" this would be the game I'd run.

PF2e is honestly less crunchy than PF1e. Or at least, it is in play. It may have more rules, but they are all built around a much stronger core, rather than the hobbled together mess that PF1e (and 3.x felt like). There are less weird rules that don't seem to mesh with everything else.

It's a game where I feel like once you understand the core, it all makes sense, and is all intuitive. So to me, it feels much, much less crunchy than 3.x/PF1e. Hilariously in play, I find the combat easier to run as a GM than 5e, as long as the players are into the system.

On the subject of having to bring down enemy ACs: It is a game that requires mechanical teamwork. If all you do is wail on the enemy every turn, you probably aren't going to win the fight.

This is a good time to talk about the three action system from PF2e. This is actually one of the places where I think PF2e is actually simpler than a lot of other systems.

Every character gets three actions every turn. Not "1 move, 1 action, 1 bonus action" or something more specific like that. It is three actions. Making an attack, that is an action. Moving, that is an action. Raising your shield, that is an action. Spells are often 2 actions, with 1 action spells generally being quick options. Certain other moves take two actions (Power Attack for instance is a two action attack).

If you take multiple actions that are attacks (either regular attacks, special attacks, or spells marked as attacks) you build up a penalty on further attacks. This means that often, standing and just wailing means you are swinging at a strong penalty after the first one. This means it is generally about finding OTHER ways you can be useful after the first attack (there are exceptions, you could build to be just a swing machine, but it would require trying to do it on purpose).

And this is where I find PF2e is interesting, compared to Silverlion's opinion of it: It creates more teamwork between characters. Things like move, attack, then using your last action to use Bon Mot to lower the will save of the enemy, so the wizard who goes next has a greater chance to land their spell. Idk. I think PF2e combat is mechanically interesting and requires players who are invested in it, but if you have that, it sings.

Out of combat stuff is pretty standard D&D stuff, so not much to say there.

 

[EmperorNorton]

Oh, also, on the three action system, it opened up some cool design space with spells. Some spells are variable action cost, getting more powerful the more actions you spend. (Unfortunately I think they have underused this option, because it IS a cool option, but not enough spells use it).

An example:



The number of diamonds represents how many actions it takes. It basically makes things like having to have "Healing Word, Heal, then Mass Heal" as three spells unnecessary. It's all one spell and it is just how you cast it.

 

[sharps54]

I do like the variable spells but in the whole still prefer PF1 if I have to play one of these.

 

[migo]

It's a game where I feel like once you understand the core, it all makes sense, and is all intuitive. So to me, it feels much, much less crunchy than 3.x/PF1e. Hilariously in play, I find the combat easier to run as a GM than 5e, as long as the players are into the system.

How long have you been running it? What is the highest average party level you've had to run combats for?

 

[Templar Stone]

As someone who has been playing pf2e since it was announced Ill give you my insight on somethings. This might end up long

First off a lot went into it with the idea it would be just a shinier version of pf1 because that was how the industry had been for so long with editions. Which led to bad experiences and people writing it off right away, while GMs and players were still learning the system. Also a lot of the first adventures that were out out for it were not balanced well encounter wise as well as they are now as even the writers and developers were attuning to the new system.

I tell this a lot to people on other sites especially if you're coming from 5e, leave your expectations at the door. Open mind open heart when going into it, Pf2e is a different system. It isn't crunchy as in you need to know all the rules possible. It's not near pf1 crunch and as someone who played Superhero RPGs in the 80s and 90s where you had to do trigonometry just to step onto a curb it's not even close to what I call crunch.

You only need to know the core concepts because everything is built around them. Once you know them and learn descriptors it all falls into place as everything is very balanced, it's very hard to make an underpowered character, and after recent errata making an op character who is op everywhere every situation is near impossible.

Casters and martials are balanced ( something that also turns some some people off because they want to be the Uber powerful wizard that ends every combat, and is the star of the party at the later half of the levels) martials tend to be the single target dealers while casters are the aoe, casters still have strong single target options and cantrips scale to always be solid damage all the way to 20. Also there are focus spells that you can obtain that allow you to spend focus points on ( can have up to 3) 1 action abilities and spells that are strong. That after a 10 min rest you regain a focus point so you can use them all day

Depending on class and then later on archetypes ( multiclassing in pf2e is different then pf1 and its ancestors a bit similar to it's black sheep uncle 4e. I'll get into that down the page) all classes have utility which is good because combat in 2e is tactical. You're a team, and working as a team is what wins the day, you're not a group of soloists who happen to be traveling together. Working together, debuffing enemies, buffing you and allies, setting up situations so others can take advantage of them. It's collaborative storytelling so collaborate.

To start the three action economy is your bread and butter. It's amazing and freeing, as EmperorNorton talked about above. Yeah you can stand a bang all three action as attacks not the best option unless you're flurry ranger ( they have was to reduce the multi attack penalty (map)). Or your group has debuffed the enemy

I'll give you and example of the tactical combat
Using a monk, a wizard and cleric

Monks are the master of action economy, they are tanky, and a load of utility and put out solid damage. So it's the first round of combat so the monk goes into their stance in this case Tiger stance which lasts the combat or they switch to another stance (1 action) moves to the creature ( 1 action) makes a flurry of blows ( 1 action but gets to make two attacks one at full bonus and one at -4 ( has the agile trait so reduces map by one )

Then the cleric turn comes up, the cleric cast forbidden ward (2 actions) which gives the targeted ally a +1 status bonus to Ac and saves vs one target on the monk and the creature.
Then they use Bon Mot to mess with the creature , the creature doesn't have a great Will DC ( will save +10) now it has a -3 to will saves

The wizards turn they first use a focus spell Physical Boost knowing the monk is going to trip the creature their next turn this gives the monk. +2 bonus to it till the end of their next turn. (1 action) then they cast fear (2 actions) the creature rolled high on its save but with the penalty to will saves from the cleric's the creature fails it is now frightened 2 so all it's checks and DCs are reduced by the number so in this case 2. So hit, ac and such.

Creature goes because the monks high ac, the bonus from the cleric forbidden ward and the penalty from being frightened by the wizard it misses all three attacks and now the monk can trip with the bonus from the wizard (1action) making the creature prone and flatfooted. then flurry ( 1 action) which would of been at -4/-8 because the trip counts against MAP but with the flat footed -2 ac and the creature with frightened 2 it net is only 0/-4 for the attacks and the monk moves away (1action) the cleric and wizard would do stuff but now the creature has to spend an action standing up , one action moving to the monk, and have only 1 action left to attack unless on the wizards turn they daze spell the creature and they crit fail the save and they become stunned 1or slow the creature either way would cause it to lose that last action

That's a small sample of how the three action and tactics work. So characters get power 1-20 unlike 5e where basically level 3-4 when you got a specialization and then around 12 . Pf2e is designed to work from 1-20 with power distributed and you get something at each level .

The system revolves around feats, be it Ancestry feats, Class feats, skill feats, when you multiclass what you do is trade a class feat to get a bit of power of another class by taking a dedication which gives you a bit of the power of it ( so wizard dedication when you take it you get 2 cantrips spells to start) and as you level you can continue grabbing either a class feat or a feat from your dedication ( what archtype you chose to dip in to further your power there like in case of wizard gain spell slots ) So you never lose your base class you just get to add attachments to it let's say

Also there is no penalty for casting spells in armor so you could be a fighter who dips into wizard to get some utility or aoe , or a sorcerer who dips into Champion to wear armor and be able to get into combat range to buff allies , debuff and dmg enemies.

So far I've run three campaigns from 1-20 , have another where they are at 10 currently which is a conversion of pf1 strange aeons AP,. I've ran one shots of various levels, some homebrew stuff, 3rd party stuff. The core of the game is not tied to Golarion (Pathfinder setting) in any hard way that you can't use the system for your own homebrew so feel free to use it or not.

 

[Templar Stone]

Somethings I've put together to help

Learn pf2e visually

Home | Simply PF2e

Simply PF2e breaks down Pathfinder 2e rules into bite sized panels as an introduction to new adventurers.

www.simplypf2e.com

Where you can find all the rules for free and here's a direct link to the New player guide they have to help you navigate

Player's Guide - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database

Character Builders

https://pathbuilder2e.com ( or android app)

Wanderer's Guide

Semi-automated character manager for Pathfinder 2e

wanderersguide.app

A collection of tools for pf2e

PF2 Tools | Essential Pathfinder Second Edition Resources

A collection of tools, utilities, and other essential resources for playing and mastering Pathfinder Second Edition. Get the most out of the Pathfinder 2e tabletop role playing game.

pf2.tools

A quick way to look up rules

Pathfinder 2 | easy Actions Library | Beta

This tool searches all the actions, spells, feats, etc. in Pathfinder 2nd Edition. Tired of searching in a lot of PDFs? This is FAST and EASY.

pf2easy.com

Demiplane similar to Dndbeyond and building one for Pathfinder 2e. If you prefer digital books , make sure to make a Paizo account and link it and you'll get a free pdf version in your Paizo.com library so you have a copy you can save onto your own device and discounts for stuff you bought from either one on the other.

Demiplane

Find Your Next Adventure On Demiplane - Matchmaking, Video, Voice, Shared Journaling, And Much More To Come!

app.demiplane.com

 

[Templar Stone]

The character Builders are also a good way to learn things as you read abilities things fall into place about core system and descriptors. As a place to play. Demiplane Pathfinder nexus has a group finder , as does the discord for the pf2e reddit and many live play podcasts have lfg areas, voice chat areas for games and some are official Pathfinder Society lodges with their own Captains. Also with increase in popularity I'm sure more local places will pick it up more. I can also and would be happy to run the beginner box on Foundry vtt here and there depending on my current games and such

https://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety

To participate in online society stuff

Pathfinder Society (2nd edition) | Warhorn

Organizations and programs bringing gamers together globally through organized play.

warhorn.net

https://discord.gg/pathfinder * Pathfinder reddit

https://discord.gg/foundryvtt * foundry

https://discord.gg/findthepath * find the path podcast

https://discord.gg/dztwdxXA * roll for combat podcast

https://discord.gg/Y5e2jtkd * cosmic crit

 

[migo]

Depending on class and then later on archetypes ( multiclassing in pf2e is different then pf1 and its ancestors a bit similar to it's black sheep uncle 4e. I'll get into that down the page) all classes have utility which is good because combat in 2e is tactical.

Speaking of 4e, how close would you say PF2e is to D&D4e overall?

 

[Templar Stone]

Oh, also, on the three action system, it opened up some cool design space with spells. Some spells are variable action cost, getting more powerful the more actions you spend. (Unfortunately I think they have underused this option, because it IS a cool option, but not enough spells use it).

An example:

View attachment 54696

The number of diamonds represents how many actions it takes. It basically makes things like having to have "Healing Word, Heal, then Mass Heal" as three spells unnecessary. It's all one spell and it is just how you cast it.

The Secrets of Magic and the Dark Archives book added a solid amount of those types of spells and some that can be powered up even more by charging them into the next round , like

Horizon Thunder Sphere - Spells - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database

You gather magical energy into your palm, forming a concentrated ball of electricity that crackles and rumbles like impossibly distant thunder. Make a ranged spell attack roll against your target's AC. On a success, you deal 3d6 electricity damage. On a critical success, the target takes double...

2e.aonprd.com

Inner Radiance Torrent - Spells - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database

You gradually manifest your spiritual energy into your cupped hands before firing off a storm of bolts and beams that deal 4d4 force damage to all creatures in a 60-foot line. Creatures in the area must attempt a basic Reflex save. On a critical failure, they're also <a...

2e.aonprd.com

 

[Templar Stone]

Speaking of 4e, how close would you say PF2e is to D&D4e overall?

There is some stuff that you can tell they got the idea from 4e but then refined it to fit the system they wanted. I would say it's closer to 4e then 3.5 for sure, but where 4e felt video gamey to me , pf2e doesn't feel that way. I like my mmos on my PC not on my tabletop ( how funny the 4e system seamlessly worked for the Neverwinter MMO)

 

[thebigh]

I put together a 1st level character for the 2023 character sheet challenge and disliked it. It took a long time and was confusing. Maybe it would have gone smoother with an experienced GM to help me out, and perhaps the system will make more sense in actual play, but I just didn't find it appealing.

 

[Bunch]

There is some stuff that you can tell they got the idea from 4e but then refined it to fit the system they wanted. I would say it's closer to 4e then 3.5 for sure, but where 4e felt video gamey to me , pf2e doesn't feel that way. I like my mmos on my PC not on my tabletop ( how funny the 4e system seamlessly worked for the Neverwinter MMO)

4e also worked well for board games.

 

[sharps54]

4e also worked well for board games.

Meh, I have all of them but haven't played the last two. Compared to other dungeon crawlers they aren't all that.

 

[Templar Stone]

Pf2e character creation ABC

Will make a dex rogue
Step 1)
A - pick an ancestry ( we will use human this gives us two free boosts so we will go +2 dex +2 con

B - background ( we will pick street urchin this gives us two ability boosts. One must be to Dexterity or Constitution, and one is a free ability boost. So dex +2 and we are going int +2
trained in the Thievery skill, and a Lore skill for the city you lived in as a street urchin (such as Absalom Lore or Magnimar Lore). You gain the Pickpocket skill feat.

C - class ( Rogue gives us one boost dex or one from our racket , we go dex so +2 dex )
It also gives us our proficiencies

Expert in Perception

Saving Throws
Trained in Fortitude
Expert in Reflex
Expert in Will
Skills

Trained in Stealth
Trained in one or more skills determined by your rogue's racket
Trained in a number of additional skills equal to 7 plus your Intelligence modifier
Attacks
Trained in simple weapons
Trained in the rapier, sap, shortbow, and shortsword
Trained in unarmed attacks
Defenses
Trained in light armor
Trained in unarmored defense

Step 2)


Now abilities base 10 and then add or subtract what we got from our ABC's

Str 10 Dex 16 con 12 int 12 Wis 10 chr 10

Then you get four +2 boosts place on any no doubling

Str 10 Dex 18 con 14 int 14 Wis 10 chr 12

Step 3)

Next pick our rogue racket ( specialization)
That gives us dex to dmg and trained in thievery ( which we have so this will be a free skill pick)

Step 4

Pick skills

So we have thievery and stealth and a free plus 7+2 from int

Pick heritage feat , ancestry feat and since rogue's start with a class feat one of those
Step 5

Pick equipment and

Done

 

[migo]

There is some stuff that you can tell they got the idea from 4e but then refined it to fit the system they wanted. I would say it's closer to 4e then 3.5 for sure, but where 4e felt video gamey to me , pf2e doesn't feel that way. I like my mmos on my PC not on my tabletop ( how funny the 4e system seamlessly worked for the Neverwinter MMO)

Nice. I liked some stuff about 4e, but being too video-gamey is also one of the things I didn't like about it. How is PF2e for evocative combat? Like in following the rules, and making tactically sound decisions, does it create a combat that you can easily visualise? I'm especially interested in how hit points and wounds are handled.

 

[Templar Stone]

So it might come up, the core rulebook is big 640 pages but it's a players handbook +Gms guide in one book ( it's the same as 5e pH and dmg which are 320 each). The image below is the breakdown of the core rulebook. Pf2e is rules mild and option heavy but all those options obey the core set of rules with only a few edge cases usually from other books to allow new classes to be able to do what they need to do.

 

[Sharrow]

So how has it worked out for those who are playing it. Improvement on PF1, just different, worse?

Is it really crunchier than PF1?

My experience is that it's 'differently crunchy' compared to D&D3.x and PF1. there's more up-front crunch (like Hero and GURPS), but like 3.x/PF1 there's still a fair bit as you level. However, it's in smaller pieces (and they've made it fairly easy to 'retrain' should something you chose not be to your liking or not working out). It borrows a fair bit of its underlying maths and combat assumptions from D&D 4e, but isn't as concerned about positioning.

Like D&D4 it's not shy about big numbers, but they're fairly well-balanced big numbers. This is quite unlike D&D5, which 'solved' balance by not giving anyone big skill/attack bonus numbers.

Smallish modifiers like +1 or +2 matter, despite the large totals, not least because there are far fewer of them than in 3.x/PF1 - you can't stack tons of bonuses in the same way.

I liked 3.x for many years, until the weight of cruft and the accounting got to me. I never liked PF1 - it changed 3.x in all the wrong ways, IMO. PF2, however, I quite like. I prefer World Without Number for my D&D-alike gaming, but for post D&D3 'heavy' D&D games I think Pathfinder 2e is the best of the bunch, and I thought that before WotC took 5e off the table by blowing up the ecosystem and shooting themselves in the foot.

The two things I think are PF2 weak points are: 1) many feats feel weak or excessively situational. The latter is true, but you get many feats and powers, so it's not a huge problem in play. The latter only seems so, generally - often in play 'weak' feats turn out to be perfectly fine, and: 2) Because there are many feats and powers it's possible to build characters that don't really work (especially if your group expects reasonably well optimised characters), but that can be fixed without rolling a new character according to the RAW (there are mechanics for retraining out of stuff you don't want).

 

[Toadmaster]

This doesn't answer your question about Pathfinder 2e - I have no experience with it - but when I was following the D&D Next playtest and saw it was going in a direction I didn't like, I also saw it was a lot like Castles & Crusades. C&C isn't a big player like PF, but it is a long time player, and it can be presented as a less-crunchy 5e. If you have players that are soured on D&D because of WotC's practices, but otherwise liked the system, you might be able to sell them on it.

And last I checked they still had the PHB as a free PDF download.

I am familiar with C&C, although I don't have it. I went on a bit of an OSR binge last summer, including starting a Pimp your favorite OSR thread which was quite productive for me. C&C is definitely on my get it if there is a bundle offering. The easier to sell D&D players on, was the logic I had for my other "D&D" purchases as well.

Current flavor of D&D, and to a lessor extent Pathfinder are just out there at a level that dwarfs pretty much anything else at the moment when you are having to scrounge open gaming spaces (cons, game stores etc) for gaming.

Just to preface: PF2e is my favorite "D&D" version. if I was going to start a game that was meant to be "D&D-esque" this would be the game I'd run.

PF2e is honestly less crunchy than PF1e. Or at least, it is in play. It may have more rules, but they are all built around a much stronger core, rather than the hobbled together mess that PF1e (and 3.x felt like). There are less weird rules that don't seem to mesh with everything else.

This is basically my issue with D&D 3/3.5 and PF1. It just feels like they tried to pull in concepts from popular not class / level games but then kind of crudely made round pegs fit into square holes. I liked the concept of making D&D more flexible, but didn't care for the end result which just felt clunky to me. The end result was a game that did not give me the comfortable shoe of D&D or the ability to really do kind of whatever, that I get with HERO, GURPS, or BRP.

As someone who has been playing pf2e since it was announced Ill give you my insight on somethings. This might end up long

A particular thanks you for all of your posts. It will take me some time to get through everything here.

 

[Templar Stone]

Nice. I liked some stuff about 4e, but being too video-gamey is also one of the things I didn't like about it. How is PF2e for evocative combat? Like in following the rules, and making tactically sound decisions, does it create a combat that you can easily visualise? I'm especially interested in how hit points and wounds are handled.

Hit points


At 1st level


Ancestry HPs (human is 8 , dwarf 10 for example) +class HP ( fighter 10, barb 12 rogue 8 wizard 6 for example) +con bonus


After 1st


Class HP+ con



Death and dying


So let's start with what happens right when you hit zero, there is no - hp like before. When you hit 0 two things happen immediately


You immediately move your initiative position to directly before the turn in which you were reduced to 0 HP. So if a creature drops you, move in turn right before it


You gain the dying 1 condition. If the effect that knocked you out was a critical success from the attacker or the result of your critical failure, you gain the dying 2 condition instead.


(If you have the wounded condition, increase your dying value by an amount equal to your wounded value. More on this in the example)



If the damage that dropped you was dealt by a nonlethal attack or nonlethal effect, you don’t gain the dying condition; you are instead unconscious with 0 Hit Points.



Example


Bob the elf gets hit by a bandit and the dmg drops their hp to 0. Bob is now in the death and dying rules. Bob's initiative moves before the bandits and Bob is at dying 1 ( if it was a crit they would be at dying 2 ) Bob has till they reach Dying 4 or they are dead.


Now if Bob takes any dmg while down that adds another level of dying or two if the effect was a crit


Should Bob's companions choose to help them by stabilizing them or healing them. Bob only needs to have someone use medicine to stabilize or the spell Stabilize brings to 0 HP and unconscious OR heal them with either a spell or non magic healing to at least 1 HP.


On Bob's turn they get to make a recovery check which is a flat check ( straight d20 roll ) DC is 10+ dying value


Critical Success Your dying value is reduced by 2.

Success Your dying value is reduced by 1.

Failure Your dying value increases by 1.

Critical Failure Your dying value increases by 2.


Now however Bob get back to 0 ( unconscious) or up ( 1hp or higher )they now have wounded condition. Which means if Bob goes down again they add the wounded condtion to their dying value so Bob would be at dying 2 or dying 3 if a crit put them down, and this will increase each time Bob goes down unless


***The wounded condition ends if someone successfully restores Hit Points to you with Treat Wounds, or if you are restored to full Hit Points and rest for 10 minutes.***



Things that affect this


Toughness feat - gives 1hp per level and reduces the recovery check to 9+dying value


Diehard feat - raises the dying max level to 5


Dwarven Ancestry feat - Mountain's Stoutness lv 9 feat which is the same as toughness but if they already have toughness then it becomes


If you also have the Toughness feat, the Hit Points gained from it and this feat are cumulative, and the DC of your recovery checks is equal to 6 + your dying value.


Doomed condtion - reduces your max dying value by the number of doom stacks

 

[Templar Stone]

Toadmaster


I was very happy to help and can answer any questions I may have sparked

 

[Templar Stone]

Nice. I liked some stuff about 4e, but being too video-gamey is also one of the things I didn't like about it. How is PF2e for evocative combat? Like in following the rules, and making tactically sound decisions, does it create a combat that you can easily visualise? I'm especially interested in how hit points and wounds are handled.

So as you go through the paces everything has descriptors that let you know stuff about it and really good descriptions to spark flavor like this spell below. Combat flows and something even as fighter just going through basic motions can sound exciting. " I rush forward towards the bandit the edges of my twin blades gleaming in the light. As I close I slice my blades in an x aiming for the creatures chest ". That was (1 action move) (2 actions to use fighter feat Double slice )

A lot of my current players have not played ttrpgs before and started out shy with roleplaying. I tend to describe combat in detail so they can see it in their heads. Getting them to respond was slow at first but I told them look at what you're going to do it probably has descriptors and a description you can use and just making it your own by adding a few things well one day one of players goes to cast this

"My fingers begin to elongate and blacken, the popping of my finger bones slightly echoing off the walls of the hallway as continue extending like shadowy thorned vines that slash at each of the enemies along their way. Once they reach their apex they begin to retract the blackness fading and my fingers popping back into place. "

 

[SirFrog]

I bounced off PF2E hard when it came out. I recently have given it another shot; after a 4 month, bi-weekly campaign I’m not hating it like I did at first, but I still find it…what’s the word I’m looking for…uninteresting. The only thing I really like is the action economy, but I think that also contributes to my feelings on it. The action economy is elegant…almost too elegant. It drives the game to revolve around that to a fault

I played PF1E for years and then 5E. I’ve also played a lot of Savage Worlds and OSR games in that time. I wanted to really like PF2E

Best thing is play a few games and find out if you like it before committing

 

[James Gillen]

Reposting from another thread cause this is my best take and I haven't played much PF2 recently:

Pathfinder 1e or 2e?

As per title, which do you prefer, and why? How is chargen? What about classes, 1e or 2e? Rules, are they better? What about spells? How are the settings? How is the gameplay? What are your thoughts?

www.rpgpub.com

 

[Raleel]

I’m playing in a game currently, doing extinction circus. It’s kind of… meh to me. It feels like GURPS, Mythras, and d20 had a baby to me.

It has so many options it gets overwhelming, especially without tools, and thus you should limit the options and have a clear idea. We did, we all are playing goblins. The three action economy is similar to Mythras action points in a way, as well as a number of their attack action options feeling like special effects, but they are different in execution in a very d20 way. I do appreciate the online tools, the archive of Nethys, and the rigorous structure of the text (very consistent language, etc). I dislike the granularity of it, a lot of +1s and +2s in small situations that help match the 1-20 advancement and getting a kibble at each level.

I’m going to limit my criticism because I suspect I have some issues with the game outside of the system itself and its coloring my views. We are (I suspect) moving to the automatic bonus progression optional rule in large part becuase the GM is bad at year. It also lets us have more creative stuff (I.e. level 1 ring of make my armor look like clothes, etc) which better for us.

 

[Ronin]

Dumb question, does PF2 have a quick of sorts?

 

[Raleel]

Dumb question, does PF2 have a quick of sorts?

A quick? You mean a QuickStart?

 

[Endless Flight]

Dumb question, does PF2 have a quick of sorts?

Beginner Box. They are usually under $30 on Amazon and have a lot of stuff packed in. Great value.

 

[Templar Stone]

Checked real fast Amazon has it for $39.25. If you order from Paizo which may or may it be cheaper for you once shipping is considered and use "Opengaming " as a discount code you'll get 25% off ( so 29.99) and a PDF copy of their Lost Omens World Guide which is solid lore book of that interests you. Depending on shipping may or not be cheaper but there's options

paizo.com - Community / Paizo Blog

paizo.com - Pathfinder Lost Omens: World Guide

The beginners box is a solid value with all that it has. Besides the start box party adventure, It also includes inside it a solo "choose your own adventure style " short that teaches you as it goes along the ins and outs

 

[Toadmaster]

Checked real fast Amazon has it for $39.25. If you order from Paizo which may or may it be cheaper for you once shipping is considered and use "Opengaming " as a discount code you'll get 25% off ( so 29.99) and a PDF copy of their Lost Omens World Guide which is solid lore book of that interests you. Depending on shipping may or not be cheaper but there's options

paizo.com - Community / Paizo Blog

paizo.com - Pathfinder Lost Omens: World Guide

The beginners box is a solid value with all that it has. Besides the start box party adventure, It also includes inside it a solo "choose your own adventure style " short that teaches you as it goes along the ins and outs

View attachment 54783

I find it interesting that the pocket version is almost 1/2 the price of the hardback, or about the same price as the starter but appears to contain all the same material as the hardback. Of course a 600 page digest size book sounds a bit like a brick.

 

[Raleel]

I find it interesting that the pocket version is almost 1/2 the price of the hardback, or about the same price as the starter but appears to contain all the same material as the hardback. Of course a 600 page digest size book sounds a bit like a brick.

It does have the same content. It is identical in layout. Just strictly smaller fonts and pictures. Some in my group gotta put on their bifocals and whine about it

 

[Acmegamer]

It does have the same content. It is identical in layout. Just strictly smaller fonts and pictures. Some in my group gotta put on their bifocals and whine about it

Hey now! I can relate!

 

[Templar Stone]

I find it interesting that the pocket version is almost 1/2 the price of the hardback, or about the same price as the starter but appears to contain all the same material as the hardback. Of course a 600 page digest size book sounds a bit like a brick.

There is a difference in size for sure here I have it next to a standard salad dressing bottle and then the full size book

 

[Endless Flight]

The pocket editions are good value. I don’t own any because of my eyes but they serve their purpose well.

 

[Sharrow]

It does have the same content. It is identical in layout. Just strictly smaller fonts and pictures. Some in my group gotta put on their bifocals and whine about it

I'm old enough that in less than wonderful lighting the full-sized version requires glasses or squinting and moving the book around to reduce glare.

 

[James Gillen]

I find it interesting that the pocket version is almost 1/2 the price of the hardback, or about the same price as the starter but appears to contain all the same material as the hardback. Of course a 600 page digest size book sounds a bit like a brick.

As others have mentioned the PF corebook includes what would be both "Players' Handbook" and "Dungeon Masters' Guide" material. This was also the case with PF1.

JG

 

[Nobohom]

Pathfinder 2 is fairly rules heavy, a bit more so than 5e.
The rules however do what 5e does, but does them in a better way.
It’s in keeping with a more modern approach to gaming, includes its own setting that is a superb ‘Kitchen Sink’ setting, and fills that ‘D&D like’ niche like no other.

That’s not a swipe at a lot of the old-school games, they themselves fill the old-niche that D&D has not filled in decades.
Likewise I honestly enjoy games that are neither of these. However! If you want something other than D&D, that is not D&D, it is the change that you will adjust to quite easily.

 

[Bunch]

The pocket editions are good value. I don’t own any because of my eyes but they serve their purpose well.

I own them because I cheaped out and they were on sale. I use my painting magnifier goggles to read them.