Irrational Hatreds in RPGs

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Finally thought of a couple

One is superhero games that tie combat to five foot squares or otherwise similar small spaces. In a genre where even relatively low-powered neophyte characters can teleport half a mile or run at mach one, it just doesn't make any sense to me to be that fiddly with how characters are located. Marvel Super Heroes, with their nice, expansive maps, is the only SHRPG I've seen that gets it right. Pretty much all the other superhero games I've encountered - including games I otherwise like - can't seem to shake off that particular D&Dism.

That one is at least arguably somewhat rational. The other one, probably less so. I hate it when fantasy games use gold as a standard form of currency. Sure, I could rewrite the various prices - tedious, when there is a large enough equipment list, but doable - but then you have to remember to rewrite stuff as it comes up such as spell costs, various treasure tables, etc, and it winds up being a lot of hassle for little return. I just hate how it devalues the concept of gold as treasure - I don't care how high level your character is, a pouch full of gold should always be a worthwhile reward, damn it!
 
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Tulpa Girl said:
Marvel Super Heroes, with their nice, expansive maps, is the only SHRPG I've seen that gets it right. Pretty much all the other superhero games I've encountered - including games I otherwise like - can't seem to shake off that particular D&Dism.
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I feel like you could have the ultimate superhero RPG by combining the rules of play for MSH with the character creation (especially power building) from Champions. Champions has the best power-building mechanics of any game I've seen, but in my limited experience actually playing, combat was terribly slow. It reminded me of Car Wars by how characters could act on specific phases based on their Speed score. Of course, this was a long time ago, so maybe it's improved.
 
Stevethulhu said:
There's two things for me. I wouldn't describe them as hatreds, neither are they irrational. But they annoy the crap out of me in RPGs. and in fantasy in general.

The first is time. Time scales in a lot of RPGs are way, way too long. Take a fairly standard amount of time 'before now' in RPGs. 10,000 years. That long ago was the end of the extinction event that saw off sabertooth cats, woolly mammoths and cave bears. Farming was just getting started in the Middle East and it's the mid point of the range for when the entire population of everyone alive today is directly descended from the entire population of everyone who was alive then.

In other words, it's an incomprehensibly long time ago.

So how come fantasy games have kingdoms that are that old? It's one of those things that bothers me. Especially with me living in an area that has sites dating back to the Neolithic, the iron age, the middle ages and the modern era dotted here there and everywhere. The range of dates RPGs use just seems unrealistic and excessive.

The other one is distance. An average person can walk 20-30 miles in a day. They could walk a couple of miles, go to the market town and walk home in half a day or so. Covering maybe 5-10 miles in the process. Armies could manage a smaller distance and still be able to camp up at the end of the day. Or fight if they had to. Harald Hadrada's 200 mile march from London to York, done at a rate of 20-25 miles a day, is considered a mighty feat.

So how come it's acceptable for towns to be that kind of distance apart in RPGs? Neverwinter to Luskan is about 150 miles. That's over a week's travel on foot. And according to the map, there's nothing in between. No towns, no sites of interest. Just a road. And 200 or so miles of Neverwinter Wood.

The scale is a good argument for the Realms being a Tippyverse. And it's far from the only setting that has this issue.
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Hardrada never saw London. I think you mean Godwinson.
 
Practically all of D&D. It's as if the entire system and default setting/s are based on My Little Pony, I look on with complete bemusement, I have no idea why anyone finds the setting or the system appealing, I didn't in the 80s and I still don't. I get the fictional inspirations (like most of 'Appendix N') and then I look over at almost any part of D&D and I have no idea what the connection is. Part of it stems from when I first started reading about RPGs in the 80s and came across letters and opinion pieces written by Gygax who seemed like an incredibly bad tempered and hectoring caretaker of an ugly, nonsensical and expensive game (even more extraordinary, his disciples who inherited that mantle are still active) whereas I loved Traveller, Bushido and RuneQuest.

I feel largely indifferent now to that D&D stuff and of course recognised, even back in the 80s, that no one outside could tell the difference, so it's very much like internecine religious differences, even with some distance it still holds no appeal.
 
Bilharzia said:
Practically all of D&D. It's as if the entire system and default setting/s are based on My Little Pony,
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I hear you. I find the tolkienesque aesthetic pretty silly myself. And things like Alignments only worsen it. On the other hand the gamist in me likes what D&D does as a game. Because of that, My ideal version of D&D would be a Vietnam adaptation or something.
 
Nobby-W said:
*cough*Traveller*cough*
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Fuck you. Let's fight!

Dumarest said:
I don't play latterday Traveller with its optional Imperium setting.
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The only Traveller that matters is the one where the Imperium didn't even exist.

As for what I hate.

Medieval fantasy. I love fantasy, but anything the conjures medieval is a hard pass.

But the most hated of all my hatreds boils down to four simple words. Speaking them in succession makes me wanna cut you. Here they are:

Powered.
By.
The.
Apocalypse.

GAAAHAAA!
 
Savage Schemer said:
Fuck you. Let's fight!



The only Traveller that matters is the one where the Imperium didn't even exist.

As for what I hate.

Medieval fantasy. I love fantasy, but anything the conjures medieval is a hard pass.

But the most hated of all my hatreds boils down to four simple words. Speaking them in succession makes me wanna cut you. Here they are:

Powered.
By.
The.
Apocalypse.

GAAAHAAA!
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So your head would explode with this...

Traveller pbta hack. (Someones done it)
 
Savage Schemer said:
Oh I have absolutely no doubt.
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Pbta falls into the Fate category for me of... leave me the hell alone about it!

If you post any mechanics for advice on many rpg forums you inevitably get the "just port to fate/pbta. It can do everything you want and yadda yadda yadda".

Not only is that not useful... its insulting.
Ive never read pbta because the vast majority of its lobbyists have turned me off of it.
 
Faylar said:
Pbta falls into the Fate category for me of... leave me the hell alone about it!

If you post any mechanics for advice on many rpg forums you inevitably get the "just port to fate/pbta. It can do everything you want and yadda yadda yadda".

Not only is that not useful... its insulting.
Ive never read pbta because the vast majority of its lobbyists have turned me off of it.
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I feel ya. The PbtA fanbase is a large part of my gut reaction to the game. And I can totally see how Fate fans would rub someone the same way.
 
Faylar said:
Pbta falls into the Fate category for me of... leave me the hell alone about it!

If you post any mechanics for advice on many rpg forums you inevitably get the "just port to fate/pbta. It can do everything you want and yadda yadda yadda".

Not only is that not useful... its insulting.
Ive never read pbta because the vast majority of its lobbyists have turned me off of it.
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TBF I kind of feel like OSR games and D&D in general is the same way. You always get the "This game is perfect for everything" type folks.
 
EmperorNorton said:
TBF I kind of feel like OSR games and D&D in general is the same way. You always get the "This game is perfect for everything" type folks.
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Yep. What I object to is less the systems or their enthusiasm it is the injecting into every topic on game design. If I am asking a question about a mechanic from a completely different system. I don't want to hear how I should just forget my ideas because the perfect hack kit has already been made.
I also don't care to hear how their latest hack is infinity superior to system x... but they like the setting.

It's like the wanky WH40k fans that insist on Waaghing every science fiction post.
Just shoo... go away, the adults are talking.

(Note, I know there are non 40k and fate/pbta fans here.... this is most likely not directed to you, but instead towards your annoying cousins.
So don't worry I am not calling you out... or edgy... or something sinister)
 
I really dislike PbtA stuff and most games that fall under the general heading of "storygames" (as it tends to be used today). I'm not interested in the idea of "let's all get together and tell a story." I do storytelling as a librarian and as a side gig (for all ages). If I want to tell a story, I tell a story. I don't need someone else to help me make one up. I like to play rpgs where the "story" is emergent from the gameplay.

I'm definitely not a fan of things like lifepath generation. I can make up my own character background. I don't need the dice to do that for me.

I don't care for rules that mechanize emotions, character relationships, and other such things. Those are things that I prefer to see come out of roleplaying.

I'm also not a fan of a lot of metagaming mechanics in general. Something like Savage Worlds Bennies is about as far as I'm willing to go. Even then, I don't hand them out often.
 
Savage Schemer said:
I feel ya. The PbtA fanbase is a large part of my gut reaction to the game. And I can totally see how Fate fans would rub someone the same way.
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NNNNGGGGGHHHH YES! :angry: I hated FATE for years just because of the way the fans insisted it was perfect for everything and if you didn't think so you just needed to be lectured at length about the intricacies of the system. I have more or less made my peace with it these days, but that might just be because the levels of proselytising seem to have diminished.
 
Soon we will have corporately-supported legions pushing 2d20 as the solution to all gaming problems...
 
EmperorNorton said:
TBF I kind of feel like OSR games and D&D in general is the same way. You always get the "This game is perfect for everything" type folks.
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The OSR diehards may fall into a similar camp. For me, however, they're less the gaming equivalent of Jehovah's Witness that Fate and PbtA fans can be and are more, "I've pitched my tent here and I ain't moving".
 
Savage Schemer said:
The OSR diehards may fall into a similar camp. For me, however, they're less the gaming equivalent of Jehovah's Witness that Fate and PbtA fans can be and are more, "I've pitched my tent here and I ain't moving".
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I love those analogies. Lol
 
Tulpa Girl said:
I hate it when fantasy games use gold as a standard form of currency. Sure, I could rewrite the various prices - tedious, when there is a large enough equipment list, but doable - but then you have to remember to rewrite stuff as it comes up such as spell costs, various treasure tables, etc, and it winds up being a lot of hassle for little return. I just hate how it devalues the concept of gold as treasure - I don't care how high level your character is, a pouch full of gold should always be a worthwhile reward, damn it!
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I find it annoying as well but also stop short with redoing the equipment list as it doesn't matter that much. It was especially ridiculous in versions where coins were 1/10th of a pound. Two things you can do to appease your sensibilities without doing any real work:
1. whenever it say gp, it actually means silver coins.
or
2. Change the size of coins to something around 250 to 300 per pound.
 
Baeraad said:
NNNNGGGGGHHHH YES! :angry: I hated FATE for years just because of the way the fans insisted it was perfect for everything and if you didn't think so you just needed to be lectured at length about the intricacies of the system. I have more or less made my peace with it these days, but that might just be because the levels of proselytising seem to have diminished.
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TBH I find that fanboys tend to be much worse than the systems themselves. Traveller fanboys put me off Traveller; OSR fanboys make me view OSR systems as a bit of a yawn and FATE fanboys nearly put me off FATE. I do quite like FATE - once you clear a path through the bollocks there are some good ideas and a system that works well once all your players understand it. However, it does have some usability issues in that it's not easy to teach folks how to design good aspects.

What I disliked about FATE fanboys is the same thing I as disliked about Agile fanboys - it's the insistence that the system is best for everything and has no flaws or drawbacks, along with the sort of highly punchable smugness that makes me really wish narcissism was a legal defence for GBH.
 
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I've switched gears towards hunting down old games from the 80s and 90s, but before that I was regularly looking at newer stuff.

One of the things that was incredibly frustrating was finding something which seemed to have an interesting hook. It would be a concept which seemed like a cool game to me. Then I'd find it was FATE or PbtA. All interest would disappear. Worse yet, it seemed games were starting to try and hide it. There was some game a while back where I thought it was a pretty cool idea. I had it in my checkout cart on a store, but I was still looking up stuff about the game, mostly to find out what was available. That was when the dirty secret that it was a FATE game was revealed. That order didn't get completed.
 
I have a hatred for games in which you lose energy for doing common things in some form unless the game has a horror aspect or good reason for it. (Example: All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Fatigue setting in makes sense, so it has a point system that you lose points from your pool as you tire.)
I dislike games that use symbols instead of numbers (unless they're simple symbols--Fate passes, FFG's Star Wars did not.)

I have an irrational hatred for Steampunk+Elves+Dwarves, unless they're VERY well done (Castle Falkenstein has a great take) most fantasy steampunk games, not so much. And using Elves and Dwarves (or Orcs) for Nationalities feels like a bad way to go as well in general for any game based on Earth. (Not quite the same for straight-up Fantasy where you may have had orcs FOUND a nation over here....on the map.)
 
Oh! Another one I hate (can't believe I didn't think of this earlier):

Games where the GM doesn't roll dice.

Like, WTFO? As a GM, I want to be able to engage with the game's systems too! I am NOT there to tell the players my super-awesome-totally-ripped-off story.
 
Oh, another big one I've been seeing that I really dislike.

I'm growing to really hate the mechanic where the GM and players trade points back and forth. The players will have some kind of luck point pool, and if they use one, they have to give it to the GM who can then use the luck point for one of his NPCs.

WHY? A GM always has the recourse to just pull fiat and warp things so that anything he wants goes. Why the hell does the GM need luck points?
 
Savage Schemer said:
Oh! Another one I hate (can't believe I didn't think of this earlier):

Games where the GM doesn't roll dice.

Like, WTFO? As a GM, I want to be able to engage with the game's systems too! I am NOT there to tell the players my super-awesome-totally-ripped-off story.
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The older I get, the less I want to roll dice or stat npc.
 
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