Best post-apocalyptic rpg?

[Lofgeornost]

1E GW is definitely my favorite incarnation, in terms of approach to the genre and game design approach (concise, punchy, full of ideas you can build on but with few metastory constraints). But unfortunately the mechanics of fights and power mean there are two 'classes' of character: those who get trapped in an endless do-loop of ablative attacks, and those who have a power or item that gives them a get out of jail free card that circumvents that do loop. This is a common trap in game design that is easy to recognize and avoid today but was unfortunately quite common in the 70s

Is this the Comp-Sci exaggerated way of saying that the characters have a lot of hit points? Combats aren't endless, though they can take longer than in low-level D&D of the era when Gamma World was created. With an average Constitution character and average rolls, you'd start with ~35 hit points. That allowed you to absorb quite a few hits from a hand weapon (10 from a short sword, ~8 from a long sword), but only a couple of hits, at most, from old-tech weapons.

 

[sharps54]

Eating authenticity? Hm. I figure that's got to be a typo, but it does cue this piece by a player about a prototypical game.

It plays out like this:
You discover your food has been contaminated with mold or eaten by rats.
The Polish countryside in winter is not a friendly place.
You kill and eat a dog, then later break into a farmhouse and take all their food.
You stumble upon a Soviet patrol.
Four of your six teammates die in the ensuing firefight.
You are taken prisoner and enslaved by the Soviet force.
The Soviet force has no women in it.
You later look back on eating the dog as one of your fondest memories.


All three, actually.

Settings fluff presents a realistic world that excels at atmosphere, especially looking back forty years at authors who didn't know first hand the geographic nor radioactive landscapes they were writing. So to hit the mark so precisely shows an inherent authenticity that is both its greatest feature and most daunting obstacle to potential players. There's no romanticism, no fetishes, no superheroes, no cavalry coming. When the tag line is used--you're on your own--they mean that. There's nothing hidden that's going to pop up to make everything better. There are no Deus ex Marines.

The mechanics provide the opportunity and ability to have characters face a struggle against fortune & luck (in dice rolls) to drink, eat, produce and use bio-fuels; scavenge usable petrol oil for engine/vehicle lubrication, ammunitions, shelter, rebuild/protect a community; or act nefariously and become warlords... genocidairés ...if players want to. This latter point seems a notable, if ignoble feature. To lay out a world where committing warcrimes is a distinct gaming possibility (common, perhaps, at some tables) is uncomfortably remarkable. And, although it's been a while since I read Aftermath and Morrow Project, I don't think that was baked in to either game (nor really many others). A bit like the moralistic choices given to a player of Spec Ops: The Line. The game provides the tapestry for bad actions, allows or even encourages those bad actions, then leaves the player with the moral decisions and consequences of behaving unethically.

By personal feel? I'm Sarajvan. When I first encountered T2k in the winter of 1992-93, I was living in a post-apocalyptic world doing all the things characters in the game must do to survive (other than avoid radiation and wander about the countryside). To find daily life depicted so accurately--so authentically-- was awesome (literal, not figurative, meaning: to be filled with awe). Gaming in a world that was terrifyingly close to what was happening around us. Both when it had present context, and more so in hind sight, it provided a surreal example of how fiction can present situations and circumstances that would be unsavory, hazardous, or horrifying to actually be in, and in doing so it is possible to learn things about others and yourself that may be useful if encountering a similar situation. Again, not many games do that. D&D ain't gonna teach you how to sword fight. But T2k could teach you a hierarchy of survival needs (if not actually providing the skills to distill fuel, etc).

T2k for me set the standard of what an rpg is capable of accomplishing. And has constantly driven me to have in-setting authenticity for whatever game I'm in or running (Bunnies & Burrows? Paranoia? Well, there's still authenticity to be had in such anthropomorphic or farcical settings).

Yea, a typo and I appreciate the detailed answer .

 

[3rik]

They are but they're also separate games with stand alone books, different rules options and a different tone.

The last time I was in a chat about the Wasteland and Wasted hacks somewhere people got confused about the difference between the two and I just wanted it to be clear: this is a case of two separate games with similar names, not people calling the same game two different things.

Oh, definitely a difference in tone. But because of their Black Hack ancestry one could still easily mix and match between all these games.

 

[NinjaWeasel]

Oh, definitely a difference in tone. But because of their Black Hack ancestry one could still easily mix and match between all these games.

Yeah, there's definitely bits you could use from one with the other.

It's been a while since I read them both but I think the biggest rules difference was that The Wasted Hack had damage based on your Class but The Wasteland Hack (for ranged weapons at least) had damage being weapon specific. That could have a big impact on Class Abilities. The Wasted Hack also had Action Dice and a very different way of handling Class Abilities.

It shouldn't be too difficult to swap stuff around between the two but might require a little more thought than stuff from some other TBH games.

 

[Skywalker]

This is an incredibly broad genre.

For trad post-apocalyptic RPG I would choose Mutant Year Zero.

For fantasy post-apocalyptic RPG I would choose Tribe 8.

For post post-apocalyptic RPG I would choose Legacy: Life Among the Ruins.

For sci-fi post-apocalyptic RPG I would choose Last Fleet.

For a post-apocalyptic RPG/wargame hybrid I would choose Car Wars.

 

[Andrew J. Luther]

Eating authenticity? Hm. I figure that's got to be a typo, but it does cue this piece by a player about a prototypical game.

It plays out like this:
You discover your food has been contaminated with mold or eaten by rats.
The Polish countryside in winter is not a friendly place.
You kill and eat a dog, then later break into a farmhouse and take all their food.
You stumble upon a Soviet patrol.
Four of your six teammates die in the ensuing firefight.
You are taken prisoner and enslaved by the Soviet force.
The Soviet force has no women in it.
You later look back on eating the dog as one of your fondest memories.


All three, actually.

Settings fluff presents a realistic world that excels at atmosphere, especially looking back forty years at authors who didn't know first hand the geographic nor radioactive landscapes they were writing. So to hit the mark so precisely shows an inherent authenticity that is both its greatest feature and most daunting obstacle to potential players. There's no romanticism, no fetishes, no superheroes, no cavalry coming. When the tag line is used--you're on your own--they mean that. There's nothing hidden that's going to pop up to make everything better. There are no Deus ex Marines.

The mechanics provide the opportunity and ability to have characters face a struggle against fortune & luck (in dice rolls) to drink, eat, produce and use bio-fuels; scavenge usable petrol oil for engine/vehicle lubrication, ammunitions, shelter, rebuild/protect a community; or act nefariously and become warlords... genocidairés ...if players want to. This latter point seems a notable, if ignoble feature. To lay out a world where committing warcrimes is a distinct gaming possibility (common, perhaps, at some tables) is uncomfortably remarkable. And, although it's been a while since I read Aftermath and Morrow Project, I don't think that was baked in to either game (nor really many others). A bit like the moralistic choices given to a player of Spec Ops: The Line. The game provides the tapestry for bad actions, allows or even encourages those bad actions, then leaves the player with the moral decisions and consequences of behaving unethically.

By personal feel? I'm Sarajvan. When I first encountered T2k in the winter of 1992-93, I was living in a post-apocalyptic world doing all the things characters in the game must do to survive (other than avoid radiation and wander about the countryside). To find daily life depicted so accurately--so authentically-- was awesome (literal, not figurative, meaning: to be filled with awe). Gaming in a world that was terrifyingly close to what was happening around us. Both when it had present context, and more so in hind sight, it provided a surreal example of how fiction can present situations and circumstances that would be unsavory, hazardous, or horrifying to actually be in, and in doing so it is possible to learn things about others and yourself that may be useful if encountering a similar situation. Again, not many games do that. D&D ain't gonna teach you how to sword fight. But T2k could teach you a hierarchy of survival needs (if not actually providing the skills to distill fuel, etc).

T2k for me set the standard of what an rpg is capable of accomplishing. And has constantly driven me to have in-setting authenticity for whatever game I'm in or running (Bunnies & Burrows? Paranoia? Well, there's still authenticity to be had in such anthropomorphic or farcical settings).

I didn’t want to let this post go by without comment. I’ve lived my whole life in Canada and I can’t truly imagine what you went through, so I just want to say thank you for sharing it.

I don’t know you, but I’m glad you’re here.

 

[Jerry_B]

1E Twilight:2000 is probably still my favourite. Ran games of it as a kid from 1984 til about 1988 or so, with a looooong campaign. Out of 6 characters in the group, 3 survived all that time. I ran a short adventure with most of the same players (but different characters) in 2016 and it was still good fun. Strangely enough, on that occasion it was the first time we'd ever had a TPK in the rpg - the players stole a Type-59 tank, then ran into a T-64 that they didn't know was there and the rest is history... (well, horrible fiery death).

Aside from that, I still see Car Wars as a post-apoc rpg, even though I know that it isn't an rpg, as such...

 

[Bunch]

This is an incredibly broad genre.

For trad post-apocalyptic RPG I would choose Mutant Year Zero.

For fantasy post-apocalyptic RPG I would choose Tribe 8.

For post post-apocalyptic RPG I would choose Legacy: Life Among the Ruins.

For sci-fi post-apocalyptic RPG I would choose Last Fleet.

For a post-apocalyptic RPG/wargame hybrid I would choose Car Wars.

You left out post apocalyptic RPG/wargame/superhero genre of Autoduel Champions!

Best game ever!

 

[FreeGamer]

From a gameplay perspective, my favorite is Apocalypse World - 1st edition, not 2nd. It's very flavorful, extremely mechanically simple, and combats can be resolved in a handful of Moves in most cases.

Setting-wise, it's no contest - tribe 8. It's great on its own, and I have huge respect to its publishers for laying out their entire intended metaplot(it was the age of metaplot) in the 2e book when they realized it was likely going to be the last book(which it was). A lot of companies around that time had their game lines end while still holding tight to setting secrets, and they didn't do that, which I appreciate. It remains to this day one of the settings I most want to play in, and I've heard nothing but good things about the SilCore system it uses, too. So bonus.

 

[Kobayashi]

I'll be brief...

You can all go home now.

 

[AsenRG]

Eating authenticity? Hm. I figure that's got to be a typo, but it does cue this piece by a player about a prototypical game.

It plays out like this:
You discover your food has been contaminated with mold or eaten by rats.
The Polish countryside in winter is not a friendly place.
You kill and eat a dog, then later break into a farmhouse and take all their food.
You stumble upon a Soviet patrol.
Four of your six teammates die in the ensuing firefight.
You are taken prisoner and enslaved by the Soviet force.
The Soviet force has no women in it.
You later look back on eating the dog as one of your fondest memories.

OK, that is actually awesome!

 

[Teotwawki]

lived my whole life in Canada

Thank you.

I learned to drive during the war amidst sniper fire. We used to to joke that if I could drive under those circumstances, I'd be ready to drive if I ever went to Los Angeles. A lot of our survival jokes were about LA. Thirty years later, I was driving in (greater) Los Angeles and some gang-affiliated folk at the intersection of Western and PCH started shooting at each other in a road rage incident.

Genuinely, my first thought: ... Amateurs.

 

[AsenRG]

To find daily life depicted so accurately--so authentically-- was awesome (literal, not figurative, meaning: to be filled with awe). Gaming in a world that was terrifyingly close to what was happening around us.

Out of curiosity, do you mean the new edition by FL?

 

[Imaginos]

I'll be brief...

You can all go home now.

Still have it

 

[Korgoth]

I love the genre and own most, if not all of the listed favourite RPG's mentioned here already.

But my current favourite is 'The Mutant Epoch' line by 'Outland Arts'.

I am pretty sure all the books are done by 1 person, a lone Canuck who over the years has not only designed the rules system but also done all the writing, editing, layout and most importantly all the ART! and there is ALLOT of art in each and every book. William McAusland is a prolific illustrator. All the art is done by McAusland so it also lends a really strong 'feel' to the entire line which I really like in a RPG.

He's produced 15 or so books so far all with color covers and glorious Black & White art interiors. There is the Core Rule Book, Several Monster books, a Setting book and multiple modules.

If you love Post Apocalypse role playing I highly recommend you check it out. It leans closer to the Gonzo implied world of early Gamma World but it's not completely bonkers. At least to me it feels a bit more believable with it's implied setting than Gamma World, but that may be me just splitting mouse hairs.

 

[Teotwawki]

Out of curiosity, do you mean the new edition by FL?

Nope. I think their system is okay for their version of the game, but that version is a far cry of havoc from GDW's.

 

[AsenRG]

Nope. I think their system is okay for their version of the game, but that version is a far cry of havoc from GDW's.

Thank you, I was mostly just curious!

 

[3rik]

It leans closer to the Gonzo implied world of early Gamma World but it's not completely bonkers. At least to me it feels a bit more believable with it's implied setting than Gamma World, but that may be me just splitting mouse hairs.

From what I've read, the system is kind of bonkers, though, but in a good way.

 

[Sharrow]

Nope. I think their system is okay for their version of the game, but that version is a far cry of havoc from GDW's.

For me the old versions work better. No stress mechanic, no gambling with extra bullet dice. The stress is from seeing your wee dudes' supplies of fuel and food and ammo dwindle. The ammo situation is just right there in the system - every time you shoot, you mark off ammo, no gambling as to how much. More shots mean less ammo for later. Do you blow a whole lot of ammo now, to make sure, or do you save it for later and risk the other guys getting to shoot you?

The FR version is fine, but it's set up to force things that I think should happen more 'organically', and in so doing it ruins my Sense of Disbelief.

 

[Teotwawki]

stress mechanic ... extra bullet dice ... supplies of fuel and food and ammo dwindle

With 4e, the characters have to pause while the players consider the meta-currency of different dice/extra dice, and that pulls away from the atmosphere of survivalism within the game. It's almost a handwaving of certain integral details. A system design to avoid immersion. Perhaps that's just me/us at our table.

With GDW's 1st & 2nd editions, the characters fight off hunger pangs but maintain their coolness under fire. ...CUF was a marvel of mechanics at the time and still works very well.

 

[Sharrow]

With 4e, the characters have to pause while the players consider the meta-currency of different dice/extra dice, and that pulls away from the atmosphere of survivalism within the game. It's almost a handwaving of certain integral details. A system design to avoid immersion. Perhaps that's just me/us at our table.

Not just you. It's one reason I dislike most meta-currencies - they pull me out of any immersion I might have.

With GDW's 1st & 2nd editions, the characters fight off hunger pangs but maintain their coolness under fire. ...CUF was a marvel of mechanics at the time and still works very well.

We played a lot of 2e back in the day, though probably more in the Merc:2000 setting than the main post-apoc setting. We also played a lot of TNE, and that's my preferred rules variant.

The original 2e rules for CUF and turns was so utterly brutal to low CUF characters, only letting them act after a high CUF character had had several rounds of actions. It was like Champions/Hero's Speed table, but with all the extra turns for high-speed characters front-loaded. v2.1 changed that, very much for the better.

 

[Teotwawki]

[...] Merc:2000 setting than the main post-apoc setting. We also played a lot of TNE, and that's my preferred rules variant.

I like Merc for what it was and the space it tried to fill. I think that space was where the Berlin Wall used to be. I liked it more as one-offs due to the fact that you either just had mercenaries who went everywhere and fought whoever or some other semi-plausible reason to be so involved. Although in an rpg, greed is reason enough! I admit to liking the rules for TNE, but that's a hard sell in most Traveller circles...

I dislike most meta-currencies - they pull me out of any immersion I might have.

The idea of meta-currency is great. To me, it just codifies a value for the gm to use in the game. Like giving the gm an attribute or skill value. The gm can, theoretically do what ever they want, since they, uh... master the game... but assign a value to they tossing hazards and obstacles at the players and the gm might have to plot a bit more about when and what and how often to do some things. In capable hands, it adds tension to the game (and sometimes an audio component of dropping tokens in the kitty-pot. But there are few games that design meta-currency use in a manner that doesn't compel a break from immersion. Coriolis does it well with Darkness Points; which, ironically, is one of the two biggest complaints I've heard from other players about that game.

 

[Sharrow]

I like Merc for what it was and the space it tried to fill. I think that space was where the Berlin Wall used to be. I liked it more as one-offs due to the fact that you either just had mercenaries who went everywhere and fought whoever or some other semi-plausible reason to be so involved. Although in an rpg, greed is reason enough! I admit to liking the rules for TNE, but that's a hard sell in most Traveller circles...

It really was, but as my players were mostly not Traveller players, that didn't matter too much. The best premise we had for a Merc game was to have it start out ordinary and 'sane' and start adding weirdness and horror elements, so it slowly shifted into being a Dark Conspiracy game. The campaign we started for that got to around the first truly non-deniable weirdness before real life events (i.e. people moving away) ended it.

 

[Silverlion]

I'll be brief...

You can all go home now.

It's an absolutely wonderful game, but sadly OOP. ;/ I own it.

 

[Korgoth]

From what I've read, the system is kind of bonkers, though, but in a good way.

Well it is complex bordering on complicated. It is definitely crunchy and 'old school' but I like it.

I'm eagerly awaiting his Fantasy RPG implimentation of the Mutant Epoch rules engine. It's been 'in the works' for years now. Still no solid word from William as to when it will release.

His Expansion Rules book for the Mutant Epoch is getting closer to completion finally. It's a monster tome, bigger than any other book he has yet released.


.

 

[Baulderstone]

I would love to say some early edition of Gamma World, because I think these have the best creative juice and general vibes, but whenever I play them I get bummed out over how slow combat runs, given the low damage of most attacks and high number of most people's HP's

Star Frontiers has the same problem. When I revisted it about 20 years(!) ago, I ended up adding mook rules. I decided the default HP amounts were for PC and major NPCs, with average opponents being within a range that could potentially be killed by single laser blast. Other than the bloated HP, it was still a really fun game.

 

[Narmer]

...Barbarians of the Aftermath (requires Barbarians of Lemuria Legendary Edition, but broadly compatibly with Mythic Edition)

I came here to say this. I really like the first chapter that helps you create, either randomly or by choosing options, your own apocalyptic sandbox. When it happened, how long ago it happened, it's nature and what type of characters are available as a result. It's a blast just running through the generator.

 

[Eron the Relentless]

I love the genre and own most, if not all of the listed favourite RPG's mentioned here already.

But my current favourite is 'The Mutant Epoch' line by 'Outland Arts'.

Came here to say this. An exceptional game with depth you don't frankly see anymore. Zero modern sensibilities. If I didn't know any better I would assume the game was produced on or before 1990, and all that implies. The definitive balls to the wall post-apocalypse game for the definitive post-apocalypse decade (1980s). Accept no substitutes.

 

[TJS]

Not really sure. But it does strike me that, of all the things that could be done with the central conceit of post-apocalypse most trpgs all fall within basically the same narrow range.

 

[AsenRG]

Not really sure. But it does strike me that, of all the things that could be done with the central conceit of post-apocalypse most trpgs all fall within basically the same narrow range.

...care to elaborate? I don't pretend being an expert on the PA genre, but its treatment does seem kinda narrow, yes.

Part of the reason is, IMO, that when we have apocalypses that have happened in different genres, we don't start counting the game as PA. Also, the apocalypses seem limited to WMDs or zombies.

 

[TJS]

...care to elaborate? I don't pretend being an expert on the PA genre, but its treatment does seem kinda narrow, yes.

Part of the reason is, IMO, that when we have apocalypses that have happened in different genres, we don't start counting the game as PA. Also, the apocalypses seem limited to WMDs or zombies.

I think there are tons of games out there that are not far from Gamma World, and those that are not tend to be based off Fallout. With some perhaps in a spectrum between the two (which are not that far apart anyway).

I would look at Tribe 8 as an exception, in that it takes the basic idea of post-apocalypse and does something very new with it, but that's decades old now.

In computer gaming, the Horizon Zero Dawn franchise would be another example of a setting which, while not terribly original, is still a lot more so than most tabletop games in it's approach to the genre. (It feels like the sort of setting that once would have been put out by one of the midtier publishers like AEG or Pinnacle).

Also where's all the dystopian post-apocalyptic societies that young adult novels were full of for a long time?

Why not post-apocalypses where alien invaders have half terraformed the planet to an alien biome, or attempts to geoengineer a way out of global warming have backfired and led to a runaway ice age?

 

[Sharrow]

Why not post-apocalypses where alien invaders have half terraformed the planet to an alien biome, or attempts to geoengineer a way out of global warming have backfired and led to a runaway ice age?

In Worlds Without Number, or at least its back history. Aftermath! suggested things like alien invasions and various kinds of weirdness, though in detail (page counts actually being a limitation back then).

 

[Eron the Relentless]

I think a post-apocalypse is more effective if we (mundane normal stupid humans) caused it. I understand the spice of throwing in "Wild Wasteland" style elements, but I actually think it cheapens the genre a bit. I respect Morrow Project and Twilight: 2000 for their post-apocalyptic mundanity (Free League not withistanding). I love Mutant Epoch - IIRC there's very little outside of humanity being stupid that caused The End Of The World As We Know It.

I agree the standard D&D loop as exemplified by Fallout is essentially the same between the genres, if that was what was being said.

The only addition being a closer account of ammo, weapon condition, and a need for autofire rules.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I like Legacy: Life Among the Ruins because the nature of the apocalypse is up to you. And it’s more about rebuilding society than just wandering the wasteland. And its generational aspect gives a broader scope to it, so that you can see the impact of the PCs’ actions over time.

 

[sharps54]

Freedom Fighters allowed for alien invasion


Palladium’s Splicers is a battle against AI

Palladium’s Systems Failure might as well be post apoc


Actually some of the above are really apocalyptic games not post apocalyptic. Maybe Warp World, did that have nukes as part of the fall?

I guess Metamorphosis Alpha counts but maybe it is too far forward, post post apocalyptic…

 

[Lofgeornost]

Part of the reason is, IMO, that when we have apocalypses that have happened in different genres, we don't start counting the game as PA. Also, the apocalypses seem limited to WMDs or zombies.

I think this is precisely right. I mean, Torg has a post-apocalyptic setting, but it’s usually not described that way.

 

[sharps54]

Day After Ragnarok isn’t a zombie or post nuke setting either
I mean there was one nuke but real destruction was the fall of the Midgard Serpent

 

[Rob Necronomicon]

Atomic Highway
EarthAD.2
Mutant Crawl Classics
The Mutant Epoch
Mutant Future
Mutant: Year Zero
Punkapocalyptic
Rad-Hack
The Ruin
Tiny Wastelands
Vaults of Vaarn
The Wasted Hack
Wasteland Sagas

zombies, ghouls, infected, cthulhoids, uplifted apes:
All Flesh Must Be Eaten
Apocthulhu
Era: Survival
Hunger: Zombies Must Feed
Infected!
Rotworld
Terra Primate
Z-land

Great list!! You said everything I would have and more!

 

[lgm]

Not really sure. But it does strike me that, of all the things that could be done with the central conceit of post-apocalypse most trpgs all fall within basically the same narrow range.

Last year I was running a PA homebrew game where the apocalypse was a colony planet where terraforming went very bad in the long run and contact with the homeworld was lost. Environment mutation and collapse with societal collapse. Ended up playing out like Mad Max with mutated Fallout-like creatures and occasional highly advanced "artifacts" from when the planet was at a futuristic tech level.

PCs had the beneficial mutations and powers which made them stand out.

Take all the narrow scopes and mash them together where it makes sense!

 

[Neon]