Games you're dodged (the anti-addiction thread)

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Psychopomp said:
That sentence you're responding to is specifically referencing OSR products, not Mythras.
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No, you just said you've "managed to dodge Mythras and Old School Essentials so far". Hence, I thought you assume it's highly lethal as well. My bad, sorry about misunderstnading what it's about:angel:!

Psychopomp said:
Is Mythras considered OSR? I honestly have no idea - I've been struggling so hard to re-read the CoC d100 rules after I picked up 7th edition that I really haven't looked too far into Mythras at all. (I probably should, but reading time is a factor nowadays.)
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Mythras ain't OSR, as OSR people are keen to say - it's not compatible with TSR-era D&D at all:shade:!

When you get to it, I'd recommend just giving the free Mythras Imperative a read, it's quite sufficient to get you acquainted with the system. And you can always add the full rules if you like what you see.
Also, if you get it from Drivethru, it should have the earlier versions of MI as well... some of which clocked at something like 30 pages IIRC.
Besides, I find Imperative a bit easier to read (a friend has a print copy), though that might be only the latest version, not sure:thumbsup:.

And if you end up not liking it? At least you didn't waste too much time:grin:!
 
Sable Wyvern said:
On the other hand, I kept dodging Kevin Crawford Kickstarters, but then I'd realise, "Oh, I could use that new Without Number game for this" and then I'd have to rush out to see if he still had any of of his offset print copies left in stock. I've learned my lesson, and will just throw my money at any future KC kickstarters.
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To his credit, he runs very tight Kickstarters (and published a short guide on how to run them as well -- it was interesting to read, even though I don't see myself ever needing to run one; he seems to have a very solid handle on project management).
 
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Skarg said:
Yeah, thanks to him for showing up on TheRPGSite to try to promote his game, acting like an unlikable egotistical fool, and talking about how he was naming game books Zweihander and Main Gauche, yet touting as a feature that all weapons would do the same damage.
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Eh, kind of. As in WFRP 1e IIRC, all weapons start with the same base damage. But Weapon Qualities, and combinations thereof, ensure that, in practice, weapons do different (and different types of) damage. And, as with WFRP 1e, alternate, more differentiated, rules for weapon damage are included in the main rulebook.
 
I've played a lot of these games, so in a way I didn't dodge them. But I don't buy a lot of games without playing them. :errr: Does that make me a minesweeper? :clown:
 
There was a copy of Zweihander at a bookstore near me for ages. I'm talking years. And in 2021 they had an unprecedented sale - all hardcovers 1/2 off, but I wasn't sure. A few weeks before the sale came around again, my wife and I went in and sure enough it was still there. So I resolved myself to get it because I had read about it and WHFRP and decided that it would fit my preferred style of campaign. Then, the day of the sale, I made a beeline towards their RPGs and it was missing!

At first I was sad but then I started hearing criticisms of the system (and its author...) from various sources. Now I'm happily settled with Worlds Without Number and glad to not have another useless book on my shelf!
 
Dyrnwyn said:
To his credit, he runs very tight Kickstarters (and published a short guide on how to run them as well -- it was interesting to read, even though I don't see myself ever needing to run one; he seems to have a very solid handle on project management).
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Agreed, he runs a great Kickstarter. There are a few out there that run really tight, well communicated with fast turnarounds on getting the product out the door. Crawford is one, robertsconley robertsconley and Matt Finch have been excellent.

Douglas Cole Douglas Cole is another one who runs a really good Kickstarter. Great communication, fast turnarounds on getting the product out the door, solid updates and a break down of how the Kickstarter went, pros and cons. Four people whose Kickstarter's I have no issues ever backing. Class acts one and all.
 
I guess 'dodge' means more than just 'didn't buy it'. It would have to be something I'd usually want but for whatever reason never got around to getting.
So I'm not sure what that would be.
Maybe the Mork Borg stuff because (on the surface) it very much is the sort of thing that would appeal to me, except I'm already scratching that itch with Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which seems a bit less frantic while also being more solid/sincere/useful (whatever that means).
I do have Pirate Borg, but mostly because I was in a game store and felt like I had a duty to buy something (it is a cool book though, probably will see use in LotFP).
 
AsenRG said:
Though please refresh my memory - don't weapons help your odds of hitting in Zweihander?
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It was quite a few years ago that I read those posts.

A few years ago, I did spot the physical tome in a bookstore, and I flipped through the many pages and glanced at some charts, and I think that despite what he'd said would be in it, there were some differences between the weapons . . . but I might be mis-remembering. I certainly don't remember the details. It looked like a huge amount of arbitrary crunch that did not appeal to me (except in a "this is a hefty tome of game stuff with pictures" way).

I've read many times since that it's also a giant rip-off/clone of some edition of Warhammer FRPG or something. Invariably when it gets mentioned on someplace like Reddit, several people say the guy is a thief and to get the original version of those rules instead. (And, TBF, a few people tend to also show up and say how they liked actually it. Though I don't think I've ever seen someone say they knew about the original but preferred Zweihander.)
 
Gringnr said:
Eh, kind of. As in WFRP 1e IIRC, all weapons start with the same base damage. But Weapon Qualities, and combinations thereof, ensure that, in practice, weapons do different (and different types of) damage. And, as with WFRP 1e, alternate, more differentiated, rules for weapon damage are included in the main rulebook.
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Ah, ok, thanks. :-)
 
Skarg said:
Ya, though my gaming friends and I have been laughing at games we think seem dumb to us, since before we were teenagers.
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In my late teens, I had a letter published in Australian Realms magazine, where I complained about people who judged games and rules they don't like ... then finished it off by ranting about the rules for combined air/space combat in the Aliens Adventure Game. :squint:

(And, just to be clear, I did this with absolutely no sense of irony.)
 
Vargold said:
Well, of course. You need purple 6-siders to play Risus, and I make sure to have red/yellow/blue dice for superhero RPGs (with purple/orange/green for the GM to use for the villains), and any dice for a science fiction RPG need to have tech motifs or stars on them. That's normal.
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It's funny because it's true. My new Dark Sun set are all fiery reds and oranges to evoke the blistering sun.

My previous set for ACKS were black, purple and blue, evoking magical power*, as well as and the royal majesty and absolute power of the traditional Dungeon Master.

*no clue where that associating came from, but it just felt like it worked.
 
I have a completionist streak so I have to be careful. The fact I’m mostly attracted to old games helps (there is a set number of products in the line) and hurts (often oop games can be hard to find and expensive). I have accepted PDFs as reasonable alternatives in many cases even though I prefer print copies. I am a Kickstarter ‘Super Backer’ but have really scaled back the last few years. I say scaled back but I still have backed eight kickstarters in 2024 and a couple more have pledges but the campaign isn’t over yet.

I have avoided most of the popular games because they don’t interest me. Free League, Modiphius, 5E, Mork Borg, OSE are all easy to avoid. Goodman Games is harder to resist as are project from Palladium Books, the Tiny Epic line of board games (although I’ll probably skip the GoT game), and Ken St. Andre’s Monsters! Monsters! projects.
 
Mangoplum said:
I guess 'dodge' means more than just 'didn't buy it'. It would have to be something I'd usually want but for whatever reason never got around to getting.
So I'm not sure what that would be.
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Such a restrictive approach would have shortened my list somewhat, but surprisingly, not by much:thumbsup:!
 
Some of my 'dodging' comes from deliberate choice--I never owned much in the way of minis, didn't get into Magic: The Gathering or other CCG, and have never really gone in for computer games--I bought my last c. 2000, on sale for $5, IIRC.

Some of it comes from just being old and not adopting--or adapting to--new ways of doing things. I've never backed a single Kickstarter and I can't see myself doing so. I want to read reviews of a product and look it over before buying. Another effect of aging is a bit of price-stickiness that keeps me from buying. I'm aware that the $10 price for the boxed set of OD&D back in 1974 would be $63 in today's money, but somehow it doesn't feel that way. I have real trouble convincing myself to pay as much as $50 for an RPG product, and $100 for either an RPG or boardgame? Never going to spend it.

Oddly, modern ways of selling games sometimes overcome my resistance and I fail my dodge. Over the last few years I've become a convert to PDFs, because they are cheaper--sometimes insanely so--than paper copies and there is no problem finding a place to store them. Add to that some recent Humble Bundles that give you almost entire game lines for the typical price of just one book, and I've ended up purchasing things I'd long resisted, like CoC 7th edition and Warhammer 4th edition.
 
Yeah, having worked at a game store, and visited others like reliable dive bars for years, I can say I've "dodged" little over the years. I've hit every branch on the way down, as it were. But I never spent my money on miniatures, d20 glut, almost all of WotC since 2000, almost all of Games Workshop since the early 90s ( I think I have an old WH rpg and a singular White Dwarf mag), almost all board games since 2000, almost all video games since the Dreamcast and 2002, all kickstarter comics and games, and so on.

But it did hurt hitting every branch on the way down. :beat: I cushioned my wallet's descent.

I also actively dread this fallen age where playtesting died and everything remains in alpha or beta test stage. :quiet: Serious play testers were worth their money. :argh: Bring them back!
 
I skipped a lot of bundles that used the 5e mechanics. I seem to have missed that whole boat (but the later settings would not entice me at all, tbh).

I've also kind of fallen away from the newer BRP and CoC stuff. And I've not managed to get amped up for WFRP 4e either. Probably because I'm still very happy with 1e and 2e.
 
Rob Necronomicon said:
I skipped a lot of bundles that used the 5e mechanics. I seem to have missed that whole boat (but the later settings would not entice me at all, tbh).

I've also kind of fallen away from the newer BRP and CoC stuff. And I've not managed to get amped up for WFRP 4e either. Probably because I'm still very happy with 1e and 2e.
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My main issue with 4E is and I admit freely my fault is creating an adventure as an GM.

One can’t do the usual dungeon crawls of many fantasy rpg

Is their an adventure generator or Podcast/youtube video that can advise and help.
 
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There is a new Kickstarter for the Laundry series of novels. Between the system described in the kickstarter which left me very cold. To the author just destroying the main character in one of his novels.

For example in the first few novels the main character is shown as having a stable normal relationship. Then suddenly in one of the novels the love interest indicates the main character was delusion and in denial. Why would you make the main character of the novels suddenly look like a complete schmuck. Just do the author could jump on a particular bandwagon.
 
I have dodged all rpgs only available on kickstarter or simply obscure or difficult rpgs to find.

The reasons are simple:
1. I already spend a handsome amount on rpgs and boardgames. So tagging on additional shipping fees (or even worse - international shipping fees) absolutely kills the "return" on investment I will get.

2. If it's a difficult to find or a prohibitively expensive book to buy, then I can rest assured that none of my friends will make the effort to buy it (especially when we already have so many games). Contrast this with one of the $20 d&d starter or essential kit they can scoop up at their local department store while running their weekly errands.

Thus matters because for slightly more complicated games its better when all or most players have a copy. Personally I refuse to buy additional copies for everyone else at the table because point 1. Also I believe that if someone can't be bothered to invest $30 to $60 on a book which will give them countless sessions of entertainment, then they simply aren't interested enough in the game for me to run.

Now, I guess this matters less for super simple or rules minimal games where everyone can play out of the same book because there is not much to reference, but I'm generally not drawn to those types of games anymore. I have plenty of them and their slight variations are becoming less fascinating to me.

3. Indy folk don't like hearing this, but brand recognition matters... well at least to "casuals". A KS game might be the best game in the world, but most people are super busy and only follow things casually, including hobbies. Which is to say they "barely follow them at all". Getting them amped about yet another fantasy game which is "like d&d.... BUT WAY BETTER!" or "what d&d SHOULD HAVE BEEN!" almost always falls on deaf ears.

I guess that makes me a basic b$tch, but I'm too busy enjoying my pumpkin spice macchiato to care.
 
The honest truth is that we spend money because we are conditioned to and we want to. You could easily never spend another cent on RPGs and run any game you want with a little imagination, elbow grease, and things you already own or are available for free online. When I say free I mean that the author wants available for free not pirated materials.
 
goats said:
If it's a difficult to find or a prohibitively expensive book to buy, then I can rest assured that none of my friends will make the effort to buy it (especially when we already have so many games). Contrast this with one of the $20 d&d starter or essential kit they can scoop up at their local department store while running their weekly errands.
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I can count on one hand the number of games my friends have gone out and bought (literally: D6 Star Wars, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Traveller). Even when the game is free, people just don't tend to consume gaming material the way I (as GM) will.
 
Any company that tries to charge the same price for the print book for the PDF is one I simply will not back.

Many rpg designers may not want to hear this and I get wanting to give a break to those who buy the physical book yet why should those who buy PDF be penalized for buying that format.

Those who buy hard copy assume the responsibility of buying the print version. Not all of us do or want to buy print books.
 
I've managed to dodge:

-- Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay past 1E
-- every edition of Shadowrun past 4th (and I only did PDF for 4th)
-- Most DnD since 3.0 main books (didn't get much of anything for 3.0 past the first 3 and didn't get anything 3.5e onward, though I can't recall if the Black Company book was for 3.0 or 3.5 which didn't matter since it tweaks stuff anyway)
-- Gurps after the initial few 4th ed books.
-- FATE after a few early books to realize I didn't like it (still love Fudge)
-- BESM after 2nd revised, which I think is still the best version overall (Rolling high versus low is about the only change I've heard of that I think improves it)
-- Just about everything post 3025-ish in Battletech. I think the Clans were a terrible addition to Battletech fiction and rules, but I'll still play you poor deluded souls who love them, though you probably have to pay for the beer and pretzels. I'm pretty sure the wife and I can field a reinforced combined arms regiment, so it's a dodge with very little effect.
-- Anything by Games Workshop since ~2000 though I still prowl the used market for minis from time to time. I do still buy the fiction.
-- Nearly everything that isn't Savage Worlds or Sine Nomine in print (I get pdfs of a lot of stuff)

I do still pick up a lot of PDFs that I won't run or play, probably need to try and dodge that habit.

I have pared down my physical RPG and Wargame rulebook collection significantly, to the point I can fit all I plan to keep on two standard-ish sized bookshelves. So I think that's a dodge.

I have not dodged having an extensive mini collection. The wife doesn't care much about what systems we use them in, but she very much cares that we not get rid of any.


sureshot said:
There is a new Kickstarter for the Laundry series of novels. Between the system described in the kickstarter which left me very cold. To the author just destroying the main character in one of his novels.

For example in the first few novels the main character is shown as having a stable normal relationship. Then suddenly in one of the novels the love interest indicates the main character was delusion and in denial. Why would you make the main character of the novels suddenly look like a complete schmuck. Just do the author could jump on a particular bandwagon.
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I have loved the Laundry novels overall, but yeah that one was a serious stinker. My wife disliked it at least as much as I did and was very unhappy with it as well. That said I didn't get the original Laundry RPG because I didn't feel like I needed to, these days I run my Lovecraftian horror with a combo of Silent Legions and Savage Worlds, so I will be passing on any new one as well.
 
I have a fondness for GURPS but it has been ages since I played it (3rd edition). I do have the two 4th edition core books and would happily play if someone were running it, though I can't see myself GMing it. Even then, I was sorely tempted by the Dungeon Fantasy box, but reading about it starting PCs off at a high point total put me off, not the sort of thing I look to GURPS for. So I avoided that even though I surprisingly ran into it in the flesh at a local games store.
There are still a few 3rd edition GURPS sourcebooks I'd like to have, but I haven't bought anything else for 4th.
 
Mangoplum said:
I have a fondness for GURPS but it has been ages since I played it (3rd edition). I do have the two 4th edition core books and would happily play if someone were running it, though I can't see myself GMing it. Even then, I was sorely tempted by the Dungeon Fantasy box, but reading about it starting PCs off at a high point total put me off, not the sort of thing I look to GURPS for. So I avoided that even though I surprisingly ran into it in the flesh at a local games store.
There are still a few 3rd edition GURPS sourcebooks I'd like to have, but I haven't bought anything else for 4th.
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I got so excited by the possibility of the Dungeon Fantasy RPG Kickstarter that I went all in... times two. My error was that I wasn't up on 4e at all. So I didn't realize the power level of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, nor the snark Munchkinism inherent with DFRPG. What a heartbreaking let down for a GM of GURPS who ran 2e/and early 3e from 1987 to 2000.

Yep, didn't dodge that, stepped right in front of it, got ran over and then backed over again. lol
 
sureshot said:
My main issue with 4E is and I admit freely my fault is creating an adventure as an GM.

One can’t do the usual dungeon crawls of many fantasy rpg

Is their an adventure generator or Podcast/youtube video that can advise and help.
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Hey man, sadly I can't recommend anything for 4e as I've never played it, tbh.
 
Sable Wyvern said:
Hah! I talked earlier about how I have my RPG spending under control. But I did decide a couple days ago that starting a new campaign necessitates new dice. And, stuck in Australia and not willing to make do with just any old dice, I also had to spend more on shipping than on the dice themselves.
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Hmm. Can I say that I dodged the shipping cost, cos I bought Chessex dice in Melbourne? Not that I actually need any at the moment as I'm not actually playing anything, but they're the smaller ones and they were cute!

Sadly I had to spend 10 minutes deciding which ones to buy. My eyes are going, so it makes sense to buy smaller dice doesn't it?! Finally worked out the set that looked that I could read easily at any distance further than half a metre. I only hope that the bright shop lighting didn't cause me to make a mistake.

P.S. Is it even sadder that I smuggled them home making sure my wife didn't see them, even though they were only $12AUD?
 
Rob Necronomicon said:
I've also kind of fallen away from the newer BRP and CoC stuff. And I've not managed to get amped up for WFRP 4e either. Probably because I'm still very happy with 1e and 2e.
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I've intentionally opted out of most all of the nu-Chaosium stuff... though I do covet the new BRP system book the rest hasn't even been tempting (unlike most all of Mythras, Delta Green, and Apocthulhu).
WFRP 4e... I bought the starter box and the rest looks quite nice... but for some reason I'm clenching my pennies, thinking I'm not really likely to run any games in that setting. Imperium Maledictum though... not much to buy for it yet, but I'm ready and willing to spend.
 
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