Mod+ OGL 1.1 is not an Open License.

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Savage Schemer said:
I'm still waiting for them to call all their current subscribers bigots, because only racists would object to OGL 2.0
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More likely they will lean in to people stealing their up and the lie the OGL was never supposed to apply to X. Where X is whatever they want.
 
The Butcher said:
Wait wait.

This is a real person we’re talking about? Like a real name?
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clip.cafe

'What's your name? Lester. Lester the Molester Cockenschtuff. Wow. That's a great porn...' - Zack and Miri Make a Porno

Zack Brown: What's your name? Lester: Lester. Lester the Molester Cockenschtuff. Zack Brown: Wow. That's a great porn name. Lester: I get to pick a porn name? Then I want to be called Pete Jones. [later seen on the DVD cover of "Swallow My Cockuccino" spelt as "Pete Jonze"]
clip.cafe clip.cafe
 
Savage Schemer said:
I'm still waiting for them to call all their current subscribers bigots, because only racists would object to OGL 2.0
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Since the outcry is everybody, including the people who would usually fall for such a diversion, I don’t think that would work. Doesn’t mean they won’t try it. I can totally see them triple down.
 
Klibbix! said:
www.dndbeyond.com

An Update on the Open Game License (OGL)

Although we are not yet able to release the OGL at this time, we would like to update you on how things are developing, and the goals we have in mind fo...
www.dndbeyond.com www.dndbeyond.com

Was this posted already? It seems there's been a little development.
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It sounds positive but it still isn't clear whether they intend to claim prior versions are no longer valid.

Their goal that only little guys can use the OGL, not big companies, is just impossible for a fully open license.
 
Klibbix! said:
www.dndbeyond.com

An Update on the Open Game License (OGL)

Although we are not yet able to release the OGL at this time, we would like to update you on how things are developing, and the goals we have in mind fo...
www.dndbeyond.com www.dndbeyond.com

Was this posted already? It seems there's been a little development.
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"Our plan was always to solicit the input of our community before any update to the OGL; the drafts you’ve seen were attempting to do just that. We want to always delight fans and create experiences together that everyone loves. We realize we did not do that this time and we are sorry for that. Our goal was to get exactly the type of feedback on which provisions worked and which did not–which we ultimately got from you. Any change this major could only have been done well if we were willing to take that feedback, no matter how it was provided–so we are."

Ahahaha, aha aha ha. Fucking bullshit. If they truly meant to get feedback, why was the only thing we saw of it from leaks, especially when they had a date it was going to go into effect that was pretty much right when it was going to go public.

They never intended to get feedback from anyone.
 
Gringnr said:
IT'S HAPPENING

gizmodo.com

Wizards of the Coast Breaks Their Silence on the Dungeons & Dragons OGL

After facing a week of constant backlash online, the Hasbro subsidiary finally breaks their silence.
gizmodo.com gizmodo.com

www.dndbeyond.com

An Update on the Open Game License (OGL)

Although we are not yet able to release the OGL at this time, we would like to update you on how things are developing, and the goals we have in mind fo...
www.dndbeyond.com www.dndbeyond.com
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Well that was a fail. Here's how you get feedback:
1) release the design goals.
2) release the draft to a wide audience.
3) have a method for feedback.

Now if only they had a system in place to put a test document out for all to look at, play with and give feedback....

And here is what you don't put in a PR response. We didn't lose, we won! Unless you have tiny tiny egos that need to be stroked.
 
Klibbix! said:
www.dndbeyond.com

An Update on the Open Game License (OGL)

Although we are not yet able to release the OGL at this time, we would like to update you on how things are developing, and the goals we have in mind fo...
www.dndbeyond.com www.dndbeyond.com

Was this posted already? It seems there's been a little development
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They did it, they played they "we had to protect you from the evil, bigoted OSR and NFTs" card. This statement is absolutely pathetic. They lie to your face. They claim the draft was sent to 3rd party publishers for feedback.

Bullshit. The OGL 1.1 came with Contracts attached.

Watching Wizards try to put the toothpaste back in the tube is hilarious.
 
Gringnr said:
I still can't believe RPGnut didn't have a thread on this

And the RPGshite has like 6 of them

RPGPube still reignin supreme as home of the best RPG disc horse
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They havr a thread in the dnd section on the net. And normally like to consolidate things there. Hadn’t check the other site. Not sure I want to go down that rabbit hole.
 
T. Foster said:
D&D has now been around long enough that there are tons of adults in their 30s, 40s and 50s who played it as kids (and some as adults) and not just actor-types - journalists, teachers, tech people, lawyers, etc. I noticed this for probably the first time when Gary Gygax died - that it got way more mainstream coverage than I would have ever expected it to, including from NPR, Time magazine, etc.

To WotC D&D’s audience is a bunch of under-30 kids who they thought would blindly consume anything they throw at them, and while I suppose that probably is the largest cohort (especially for stuff like Dndbeyond), there are still literally millions of other onetime-D&D-fans in the older generations who, even if they’re not playing the game or buying stuff for it anymore, still feel kinship with the brand and are going to be interested in this kind of story.
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Yup, that's my impression as well. And it's not quite like that here, but it gets more and more acceptable to talk about RPGs in the West...
We're a generation or two behind that, I guess, due to a much later start. But hey, my kids' generation would stand a much better chance for that:shade:.

Toadmaster said:
Sadly that kind of end only happens to us little people. The CEO club takes care of each other, and no matter how big a screw up they tend to land on their feet so long as they didn't end up in jail. It is pretty sickening to see how often a CEO who runs one company into the ground, ends up doing the same repeatedly. Eventually they tend to wind up in politics and do the same to all of us.
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Sounds like a plan:thumbsup:?

Toadmaster said:
You also have to wonder how many of the younger gamers Hasbro is courting, and counting on not having a memory of past screw ups are sitting around having a chat with their gamer parents, older family members and older gamer friends. I bet the Hasbro execs think the game tables are broken out neatly along age demographics that don't share ideas.
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...but it doesn't seem like that here.

Shipyard Locked said:
We need better emoticons, period. This lineup is just so inexpressive compared to some that I've used on other forums.
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I am AsenRG AsenRG and I approve of that message:grin:!
Shipyard Locked said:
Storygames.
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Are you a (non-OGL) troll or what:tongue:?
Gringnr said:
I dunno if I mentioned this before, but the forum I ran always got praised for its smileys. A lot of them were custom, admins could upload them, assign a code and boom. It kind of became a fun feature, as many of the smileys were suggested by forum members. There was a thread for it and everything.We were using SMF, so I don't know how that differs from what you have here. But it was a cool, fun thing we did. Celebrity faces, you name it, man, we had an emoticon for everything.
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:heart:
T. Foster said:
Yeah, I think WotC fails to realize how many of the current young fans are actually second generation fans whose parents might not still be playing but know about the game and remember the kind of shit TSR (and WotC in the 4E debacle) used to pull.

They also, in a shockingly ignorant show of hubris, forgot that while their fans are mainly under 30 and have only been playing for 5 years or less, the people who run all the 3PPs they’re trying to screw over are mostly in their 50s and have been doing this stuff professionally for 20+ years and many of them (like Lisa Stephens and Chris Pramas and Wolfgang Baur) were former WotC and even more of them are licensed attorneys. Like I said way way earlier in this thread, AFAICT most of the current D&D team at Wizards seems to be people in their 30s who’ve only been there for a few years and don’t really know or care anything about the game or hobby prior to about 2010. I’m sure they had an arrogantly condescending “ok boomer” attitude towards all these old folks and assumed they’d all just roll over and are now learning the hard way that experience and expertise actually matter and maybe they don’t actually know everything after all.
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A lesson a lot of younger people need sooner or later...probably all of them, probably I just don't remember when I got it...
...or maybe I do.
davidmamet1-2x.jpg

CRKrueger said:
With the ORC, Paizo just curbstomped WotC. They'll release a new OGL and no one will care. All the major 3PP providers would be stupid to sign WotC's license now.
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Indeed.

Gringnr said:
Talislanta creator Steven Michael Sechi is talking about making the Talislanta rules engine open now. Man, I think this is gonna be good for gaming.
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...if he does that, I know what I'd use for my current project:grin:!


Brock Savage said:
She's a YouTuber that does advice videos for D&D players and DMs.
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So, basically, Someone With An Opinion And A Camera?

TJS said:
Made the Guardian.
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Godfather Punk said:
The Guardian could use a proofreader.
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...yeah, it's really nothing new:grin:!

A Fiery Flying Roll said:
They also seem to have missed how, of those who do play 5e, the older demographic are heavily skewed towards the GM contingent. My local Geek Retreat's D&D nights wouldn't run without the older GMs and I suspect we're the norm rather than an outlier there.
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Quite possibly, but I've also seen more than a few younger GMs.
Not that it would help them, young'uns are quite likely to follow videos slamming corps for anti-competitive behaviour. I'm almost surprised I'm not seeing First Daughter in the Twitter replies!

Shipyard Locked said:
Sooo... this is Paizo we're talking about...

Is there any way they could write this 'ORC' thing with a rule against using it to produce 'bigoted' content? (as nebulously defined by them of course)

I can't imagine how they could - and then enforce it - but until a week ago I couldn't imagine an attempt to revoke the OGL. As everyone keeps saying, I'm not a lawyer.
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...I sincerely hope they wouldn't even try:thumbsdown:.

The Mad Hatter said:
View attachment 54604
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See, that's actually a long-standing legal debate with more connotations than I care to get into in this thread...

SmallbutVicious said:
The AI understood the basic principles, but I feel the rules are lacking in details:

Character Creation:

Players will choose a class archetype, such as Warrior, Mage, or Thief.
Players will determine their character's abilities and stats, such as strength, intelligence, and dexterity.
Players will also create a backstory for their character.

Gameplay:

Players will take turns making decisions and taking actions during gameplay.
Combat will be resolved through roll of dice, with the outcome determined by the character's abilities and stats.
Players will complete quests and interact with non-player characters to progress the story.

Advancement:

As players complete quests and defeat enemies, they will earn experience points.
Once a certain amount of experience points is earned, the character will level up and the player can improve their abilities and stats.
Players will also have the opportunity to acquire new equipment and items to aid them in their quest.

Game Master:

The game will be run by a Game Master who will act as the narrator, controlling non-player characters and the story.
The Game Master will also make any final decisions and rule on any disputes that may arise during gameplay.

Note: These rules are not intended to infringe on any existing intellectual property rights and are only intended as a general guide for creating a fantasy RPG. It's always recommended to check the laws and regulations of your country before creating your own RPG.

Added by Edit - It included the last sentence as I specified that I didn't want to get sued by Hasbro.
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...that's gold:grin:!

EmperorNorton said:
Thoughts on "AI GMs". You know, we definitely aren't there yet clearly, but I think that AI adventure generation would be a neat idea. Feed in some general prompts, it spits out locations, NPCs, connections, etc and the GM can then take what it generated and tweak it as they need to for their game.
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Well, people in the ChatGPT thread reported playing with AI GMs...
I still haven't had the time to try it. Mostly, we were having hearthfelt discussions:grin:!


Doesn't the idea of AsenRG AsenRG training one of the first AIs make you tremble, guys?
 
Arminius said:
It’s what I was thinking. The idea of using AI GMs is interesting and perhaps a tad premature, but if someone made a space where everyone pays to play RPGs (or at least the most popular RPG in the world), in a global pool of players and referees, it sounds plausible. As I implied somewhere earlier in the thread, it would be like a social network for RPGing. The trick is attracting GMs (until AIs could possibly take over). Instead, they are alienating them.
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We already have social networks for RPGing, though.

I'm wondering if the idea of a proprietorial VTT is actually feasible. As someone who does use a VTT for my regular gaming, it sounds absurd to me. It would take a miracle to get me to switch in any case, since I've already spent so much time building doodads in Roll20. The people who are active users of these things, by which I mean those who build their own doodads rather than just using things out of the box, would never switch to anything more restrictive, where they couldn't play whatever system they wanted to.

Such users are, of course, the minority, but they're also the ones who actually pay for the service. People who don't build stuff use it for free. Would these people, the ones who only play 5e, really switch to a DnD-specific system if they have to pay? Maybe Hasbro could restrict other VTTs from officially having DnD stuff, but I could just rebuild it myself. In principle, that is. I got kind of bored of 5e, but other GMs could.
 
Klibbix! said:
www.dndbeyond.com

An Update on the Open Game License (OGL)

Although we are not yet able to release the OGL at this time, we would like to update you on how things are developing, and the goals we have in mind fo...
www.dndbeyond.com www.dndbeyond.com

Was this posted already? It seems there's been a little development.
Click to expand...
This the funnest comedic piece of writing I've seen in a while. This isn't an apology this is a gaslighting extravaganza. " We're not villains, we're your friend YOU just misunderstood our intentions". Seriously a load of BS basically treating the Ttrpg like little kids who don't know better and they were just looking out for us.
 
"When we initially conceived of revising the OGL, it was with three major goals in mind. First, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products. Second, we wanted to address those attempting to use D&D in web3, blockchain games, and NFTs by making clear that OGL content is limited to tabletop roleplaying content like campaigns, modules, and supplements. And third, we wanted to ensure that the OGL is for the content creator, the homebrewer, the aspiring designer, our players, and the community—not major corporations to use for their own commercial and promotional purpose."

Hilarious. "We're fighting against bigots and the big evil corporations!" Fair play to whoever wrote this, though, probably the best attempt at damage control feasible.
 
SmallbutVicious said:
We already have social networks for RPGing, though.

I'm wondering if the idea of a proprietorial VTT is actually feasible. As someone who does use a VTT for my regular gaming, it sounds absurd to me. It would take a miracle to get me to switch in any case, since I've already spent so much time building doodads in Roll20. The people who are active users of these things, by which I mean those who build their own doodads rather than just using things out of the box, would never switch to anything more restrictive, where they couldn't play whatever system they wanted to.

Such users are, of course, the minority, but they're also the ones who actually pay for the service. People who don't build stuff use it for free. Would these people, the ones who only play 5e, really switch to a DnD-specific system if they have to pay? Maybe Hasbro could restrict other VTTs from officially having DnD stuff, but I could just rebuild it myself. In principle, that is. I got kind of bored of 5e, but other GMs could.
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And the people who are really into it have purchased assets to use, like tokens, maps, and adventures. A new VTT would have to be fabulous for people to be willing to dump those assets down the drain and start over.
 
“The license back language was intended to protect us and our partners from creators who incorrectly allege that we steal their work simply because of coincidental similarities.”

the language that was there to allow us to steal peoples work was meant to protect us from allegations of stealing peoples work. Lol.
 
Klibbix! said:
www.dndbeyond.com

An Update on the Open Game License (OGL)

Although we are not yet able to release the OGL at this time, we would like to update you on how things are developing, and the goals we have in mind fo...
www.dndbeyond.com www.dndbeyond.com

Was this posted already? It seems there's been a little development.
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The funniest part of this is this section: "It also will not include the license back provision that some people were afraid was a means for us to steal work. That thought never crossed our minds. Under any new OGL, you will own the content you create. We won’t. Any language we put down will be crystal clear and unequivocal on that point. The license back language was intended to protect us and our partners from creators who incorrectly allege that we steal their work simply because of coincidental similarities."

The OGL absolutely, 100%, does and always has let WotC - and anyone else - take anything you create and profit from it without your consent if you release it under the license. If you don't get this basic point don't release stuff under OGL, GPL, or anything else like that.
 
WotC just tried to put a bandaid on a severed limb. And the gaslighting was so bad it was hilarious. ("We must guard agains all those potential Nazi and KKK d20 RPGS...")

At least everything already published under 1.1a is okay. Legally there's no question that they should be, but I was worried that all kinds of things suddenly would disappear from DTRPG and elsewhere out of sheer panic.
 
It's Friday night dinner time and all I want to do is fight Hasbros. This has literally put me off my food and turned me on to drink. Only beautiful, unstable women with concealed weaponry get to gaslight me.
 
www.dndbeyond.com

An Update on the Open Game License (OGL)

Although we are not yet able to release the OGL at this time, we would like to update you on how things are developing, and the goals we have in mind fo...
www.dndbeyond.com www.dndbeyond.com

Never have I read such a disingenuous pack of revisionist bullshit since the DUP got involved with writing manifestos.
 
Interesting to see immediate reactions. There are many more people than I expected who are ok with this statement, mainly as it fights against the terrible people and you can still publish old OGL stuff.

Future OGL products are clearly a no since they weren't mentioned. I'm guessing Pantomime is still off limits as well.
 
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