Road to Monsterberg Alternate System

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PencilBoy99

PencilBoy99

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I found this series of sandbox adventures (https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en...oad-to-Monsterberg-Secret-of-the-Golden-Hills) (there's 3 of them) but don't really want to learn the system that goes with it (very detailed crunchy combat). I think they're set in 14xx with low / "realistic" magic.

What other systems might work well with it? I personally prefer skill systems or systems w/ skills to pure level systems.
 
PencilBoy99 said:
I found this series of sandbox adventures (https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en...oad-to-Monsterberg-Secret-of-the-Golden-Hills) (there's 3 of them) but don't really want to learn the system that goes with it (very detailed crunchy combat). I think they're set in 14xx with low / "realistic" magic.

What other systems might work well with it? I personally prefer skill systems or systems w/ skills to pure level systems.
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It is great...but Peter Von Danzig Peter Von Danzig litterally wrote the thing, so I don't really need to answer any questions:grin:!

...however, as for "other systems"? I have thought of this long and hard because of reasons*. So I can tell you what the author has mentioned in other threads: Any system that works for you is fine!

Personally, I'd qualify that to say "if it can do decent combat and doesn't require more than the lowest magic (without getting boring as a result)". So Aquelarre yes, D&D no, and other systems are on a case-by-case basis:thumbsup:.
I'd even say "Fate is fine, just use some of the "grittier" options", like those that make armours and weapons matter:thumbsup:. (No idea if you like Fate - I really don't have Pub goers on files, I swear:tongue:! - it's just an example:gooselove:!)



*Full disclosure, I have the Codex Martialis system, I like it...and I might still use Mythras, simply because my players are getting used to it already, and they would appreciate not having to learn different systems for different campaigns...

And I'm pretty sure I'd have Peter Von Danzig Peter Von Danzig 's blessings:shade:.
 
There is a 'lite' version of Codex Martialis, the system Road to Monsterberg was written for: STARA SZKOŁA. So that might be worth a look. I don't think it includes magic rules, though.

If you want a D100 game, then Renaissance would be a natural fit, given its focus on the Early Modern period. It's a little later than the Road to Monsterberg timeframe, but some judicious pruning could deal with that.
 
AsenRG said:
It is great...but Peter Von Danzig Peter Von Danzig litterally wrote the thing, so I don't really need to answer any questions:grin:!

...however, as for "other systems"? I have thought of this long and hard because of reasons*. So I can tell you what the author has mentioned in other threads: Any system that works for you is fine!

Personally, I'd qualify that to say "if it can do decent combat and doesn't require more than the lowest magic (without getting boring as a result)". So Aquelarre yes, D&D no, and other systems are on a case-by-case basis:thumbsup:.
I'd even say "Fate is fine, just use some of the "grittier" options", like those that make armours and weapons matter:thumbsup:. (No idea if you like Fate - I really don't have Pub goers on files, I swear:tongue:! - it's just an example:gooselove:!)



*Full disclosure, I have the Codex Martialis system, I like it...and I might still use Mythras, simply because my players are getting used to it already, and they would appreciate not having to learn different systems for different campaigns...

And I'm pretty sure I'd have Peter Von Danzig Peter Von Danzig 's blessings:shade:.
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IMHO for a lot of systems antagonists are built just like PCs (not like Cypher for example), so if the combat system is intricate and crunchy, I also have to use that for every antagonist I run in every combat. So now I have to guess at the right set of maneuvers for an antagonist that I may never use again and just looked at 30 seconds ago.
 
PencilBoy99 said:
IMHO for a lot of systems antagonists are built just like PCs (not like Cypher for example), so if the combat system is intricate and crunchy, I also have to use that for every antagonist I run in every combat. So now I have to guess at the right set of maneuvers for an antagonist that I may never use again and just looked at 30 seconds ago.
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I totally agree, them's the perils of improvising IMO (though I don't think of that as a peril so much as an opportunity).

But that doesn't get us any closer to actually helping you...shade:

The key question is: what kind of systems do you like? I can't comment on Cypher, sorry:thumbsup:!
 
Thanks for mentioning the adventures and Codex lads.

First, all of our historical adventures are structured so that you can use any system you want. We have enough of a following among Mythras fans that we have a channel for Codex on their Discord. The guys who wrote Burning Wheel also played a campaign based on our (non game) historical book on the medieval Baltic.

The Monsterberg books and other historical adventures are written with most of the NPCs / bad guys stats and most of the other rules-related parts in their own sections in the back. So you can swap these out with your own types for your own system. We have two shorter ones too, Reiver's Lament which is set in 16th Century Scottish / English borderland, and The Devil's Pass which is set in the same 15th Century Central European world as Monsterberg, but the action is confined to one little valley. All of these adventures are basically sandboxes to at least some extent, but also have default adventure paths you can follow.

In terms of how the adventures are designed, they are all meant to be a little bit 'grim' in the sense that combat is risky, and you can't really afford to just routinely hack your way through every encounter. Potential enemies or opponents will be somewhere from about half as capable, to about equal in fighting ability to the players, so the latter will need to use tactical skill and sometimes devious cunning to assure victory. Pick their fights carefully when they can. Killing people may also have legal or social consequences so you can't be quite as 'murder hobo' as in some RPGs.

Monsterberg in particular is set up a little bit like a medieval Call of Cthulhu game, with the players acting as investigators of troublesome mysteries. Diplomacy, bribery, exploration, and detection, stealth, social engineering and deciphering of clues (even including in some cases, research) are all important. Combat is meant to be intense and a little bit rare, maybe one fight per session, but also consequential. There aren't really any 'mooks'. There is magic but compared to traditional RPGs it's "Low Magic". Magic is a little bit scary though, because it's not nerfed. I.e. it's not just a temporary die roll mod or something, more likely to affect the plot or life and death.

Codex Martialis isn't super complex, but it takes some time to learn. Stara Szkola, our "OSR adjacent" version, is designed to be much faster both to learn and to play. You can make a character in 5-10 minutes. It still has many of the same realistic aspects as Codex but it's all based on a few die rolls with very little arithmetic and no tables, so it plays smoothly. Stara Szkola and it's supplement, Streets of the Fencing Master, both have short introductory adventures that come with them.

Aside from our two systems, I'd say Mythras, Runequest, Warhammer Fantasy, and GURPS should all work. If I was going to run it in something other than Codex or SSk I'd probably pick some OSR game like OSE, DCC, maybe Kobold Press' new Tales of the Valiant. Probably LOTFP would work if you like that one. The only restriction is that these historical settings will fit best with lower- or middling-powered characters, say up to about level 6 in DnD terms. You also wouldn't want to start too weak either. So maybe say levels 3-6 in most OSR DnD terms.

Other historically derived / historically adjacent systems like TROS and it's derivatives, Burning Wheel, Aguelere and Ars Magica, Harn etc. should all be naturals. I think Dying Earth RPG from Pelgrane with it's "social combat" system would be a great fit.
 
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Peter Von Danzig said:
Thanks for mentioning the adventures and Codex lads.

First, all of our historical adventures are structured so that you can use any system you want. We have enough of a following among Mythras fans that we have a channel for Codex on their Discord. The guys who wrote Burning Wheel also played a campaign based on our (non game) historical book on the medieval Baltic.

The Monsterberg books and other historical adventures are written with most of the NPCs / bad guys stats and most of the other rules-related parts in their own sections in the back. So you can swap these out with your own types for your own system. We have two shorter ones too, Reiver's Lament which is set in 16th Century Scottish / English borderland, and The Devil's Pass which is set in the same 15th Century Central European world as Monsterberg, but the action is confined to one little valley. All of these adventures are basically sandboxes to at least some extent, but also have default adventure paths you can follow.

In terms of how the adventures are designed, they are all meant to be a little bit 'grim' in the sense that combat is risky, and you can't really afford to just routinely hack your way through every encounter. Potential enemies or opponents will be somewhere from about half as capable, to about equal in fighting ability to the players, so the latter will need to use tactical skill and sometimes devious cunning to assure victory. Pick their fights carefully when they can. Killing people may also have legal or social consequences so you can't be quite as 'murder hobo' as in some RPGs.

Monsterberg in particular is set up a little bit like a medieval Call of Cthulhu game, with the players acting as investigators of troublesome mysteries. Diplomacy, bribery, exploration, and detection, stealth, social engineering and deciphering of clues (even including in some cases, research) are all important. Combat is meant to be intense and a little bit rare, maybe one fight per session, but also consequential. There aren't really any 'mooks'. There is magic but compared to traditional RPGs it's "Low Magic". Magic is a little bit scary though, because it's not nerfed. I.e. it's not just a temporary die roll mod or something, more likely to affect the plot or life and death.

Codex Martialis isn't super complex, but it takes some time to learn. Stara Szkola, our "OSR adjacent" version, is designed to be much faster both to learn and to play. You can make a character in 5-10 minutes. It still has many of the same realistic aspects as Codex but it's all based on a few die rolls with very little arithmetic and no tables, so it plays smoothly. Stara Szkola and it's supplement, Streets of the Fencing Master, both have short introductory adventures that come with them.

Aside from our two systems, I'd say Mythras, Runequest, Warhammer Fantasy, and GURPS should all work. If I was going to run it in something other than Codex or SSk I'd probably pick some OSR game like OSE, DCC, maybe Kobold Press' new Tales of the Valiant. Probably LOTFP would work if you like that one. The only restriction is that these historical settings will fit best with lower- or middling-powered characters, say up to about level 6 in DnD terms. You also wouldn't want to start too weak either. So maybe say levels 3-6 in most OSR DnD terms.

Other historically derived / historically adjacent systems like TROS and it's derivatives, Burning Wheel, Aguelere and Ars Magica, Harn etc. should all be naturals. I think Dying Earth RPG from Pelgrane with it's "social combat" system would be a great fit.
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Does the magic suppliment only go with Codex Martialis or could i use it with Stara Szkola,
 
There are basic (and pretty simple) spellcasting rules in the back of Monsterberg I, as well as all the magic spells and artifacts in that book. It's got everything you will need to run it, although of course you could substitute your own magic rules from whatever other system you are using. There are also pre-generated player characters you can either use, or adapt as guidelines for making characters in another system.

Codex Superno, our magic supplement, is designed for Codex but it's due for a revision in the near future which will make it easier to adapt to SSk. As it is, it is already simple to adapt, it just has some lingering OGL rules (like references to "Saving Throws") that I need to purge out of it since we have moved away from OGL. A lot of people from the D100 world prefer not to see any OGL rule references, so give it a few weeks I'll announce the revision here when it's out.
 
We've been going through all of our books and removing all the OGL stuff, and usually adding a few new things as "Lagniappe". We have already updated Core Rules, Player's Guide, and the Weapons and Armor books. Monsterberg III is also up to the new standard. The rest should be done by the end of February.
 
PencilBoy99 said:
I found this series of sandbox adventures (https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en...oad-to-Monsterberg-Secret-of-the-Golden-Hills) (there's 3 of them) but don't really want to learn the system that goes with it (very detailed crunchy combat). I think they're set in 14xx with low / "realistic" magic.

What other systems might work well with it? I personally prefer skill systems or systems w/ skills to pure level systems.
Click to expand...
If you care to pop over to the ”best historical settings” I’ve written an appreciation of the whole series. There’s a GM’s crib on my blog (warning: it’s all SPOILER). Yes, it’s eminently suitable for non-D&D derived systems. Anything Runequest-y, anything MERPS-y, anything Fantasy Trippy, anything Riddle of Steel-y, Cold Iron if ffilz ffilz is watching. I think it might be good with a skirmish-RPG hybrid such as Rangers of the Shadow Deep or even the original Skirmish Wargaming from 1975. However, the easiest way to go is with Peter Von Danzig Peter Von Danzig ’s Stara Szkola - Codex Martialis without the learning curve.
 
In this time period do they have effective flintlock or do you still need to light a string
 
PencilBoy99 said:
In this time period do they have effective flintlock or do you still need to light a string
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It is matchlock-era.

On the system question - I know the adventures have been run using straight Mythras. Although there's no easy conversion routine characters and creatures can simply be replaced by Mythras equivalents. We tried a Mythras-version of some of the martial rules (ably put together by Peter) but it's a bit too much detail to add on to Mythras, so running vanilla just works even if it does not provide the HEMA-feels of the original. The native system is significantly more detailed and historically specific than Mythras, there wasn't any interest (on the Mythras Discord) in adding more to Mythras combat. The die-pool mechanic does not translate easily to Mythras, but looks very innovative for a d20 variant.
 
What's the big difference then inn fighting technology between the settings era and the one covered by Renaissance d100
 
Bilharzia said:
It is matchlock-era.

On the system question - I know the adventures have been run using straight Mythras. Although there's no easy conversion routine characters and creatures can simply be replaced by Mythras equivalents. We tried a Mythras-version of some of the martial rules (ably put together by Peter) but it's a bit too much detail to add on to Mythras, so running vanilla just works even if it does not provide the HEMA-feels of the original. The native system is significantly more detailed and historically specific than Mythras, there wasn't any interest (on the Mythras Discord) in adding more to Mythras combat. The die-pool mechanic does not translate easily to Mythras, but looks very innovative for a d20 variant.
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I think that was just down to my not understanding Mythras and D100 well enough to cross connect all the cables, so to speak. You and IIRC one or two others were seeing problems with some of the ideas I was coming up with, and I couldn't grasp what the objection was, which I'm 100% certain is down to me just not knowing BRP / Mythras well enough. I didn't keep at it because it's probably not something I could ever sell and I have to keep my internal development track on schedule. Anyway I didn't have the time to try to figure out their licensing arrangements, if there even are any. After the OGL thing I'm a little leery of those!

But one day I'll play some Mythras and get a better sense of it, and then I'll give that another look. You might not be able to convert all the Codex stuff but even half or a third of it might be useful or fun as an option for some folks.
 
Peter Von Danzig said:
I think that was just down to my not understanding Mythras and D100 well enough to cross connect all the cables, so to speak. You and IIRC one or two others were seeing problems with some of the ideas I was coming up with, and I couldn't grasp what the objection was, which I'm 100% certain is down to me just not knowing BRP / Mythras well enough. I didn't keep at it because it's probably not something I could ever sell and I have to keep my internal development track on schedule. Anyway I didn't have the time to try to figure out their licensing arrangements, if there even are any. After the OGL thing I'm a little leery of those!

But one day I'll play some Mythras and get a better sense of it, and then I'll give that another look. You might not be able to convert all the Codex stuff but even half or a third of it might be useful or fun as an option for some folks.
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And while I believe I understand both Codex and Mythras, I haven't found a way to do it in a satisfactory way, either...at least, not yet:shade:.

Which is to say, it's in the works, but this status can remain for an undetermined amount of time.
Part of the problem is what is abstracted-to-chance, as I call it, which is different in both systems...but I won't go there:thumbsup:.
 
PencilBoy99 PencilBoy99
I'm (obviously) not Bilharzia Bilharzia but if you're set on using Renaissance d100, I think it might work the same way that he said upthread: replace enemies detailed in the end of Monsterberg with equivalents from Renaissance, and call it a day:grin:!

IIRC, the Monsterberg entries denote what equipment they've got, so just plug chain armour for chain, plate for plate, and so on...:thumbsup:

Can't help with magic, since I don't remember what magic Renaissance had, but if not it, other d100 systems should have something usable:shade:.
 
PencilBoy99 said:
What's the big difference then inn fighting technology between the settings era and the one covered by Renaissance d100
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I looked again at the free Renaissance SRD last night; I had forgotten how tightly focused it is on the mid-17th century (which makes sense, as it is the base rules for Clockwork and Chivalry II). So, for example, the only sort of shield is the target (which the rules say is rare) and there are listings for things like the swinefeather (a stick with a spearhead on it used to make a barrier before musketeers). Renaissance Deluxe, which is relatively cheap ($5 PDF) is supposed to provide a more extensive list of weapons and more guidance for playing in earlier periods, but I don't own a copy myself. The specific pieces of armor in the Renaissance SRD are likewise tied to the mid-17th century (buff coat, secrete, etc.) but since the game actually uses just 5 armor ratings (very light to very heavy) all you would have to do is assign the various 15th-century armor equippages to one or another of those and you're good to go. Firearms are much more ubiquitous and powerful in the world assumed by the Renaissance SRD than they are in the 1456 setting of the Monsterberg adventures, so they would have to be toned down. I'd guess that limiting them to a single handgun weapon roughly equivalent to the matchlock arquebus in Renaissance would work; you'd need to eliminate skills like Dual-Weapon: Sword and Pistol as well.

Renaissance is not as detailed in its combat system as some other D100 offerings--it does not use hit locations, for instance. If you wanted those, you could turn to Mythras, Legend (~Mongoose RQII, very cheap at $1 PDF), or BRP. One issue in using Mythras would be defining the 'Combat Styles'--that is, packages of weapons and/or shields--that count as a single skill in character generation. Maybe Bilharzia Bilharzia could comment on how this was done in adaptations for the Discord?

Renaissance offers two types of magic: Alchemy (which is mostly elemental magic, rather than alchemy per se) and Witchcraft (folk magic + Satanism). I don't know how easy it would be to accomodate the magic from the Monsterberg scenarios under those rules. My guess is that whatever system you use, the magic would require a fair amount of hacking.
 
The players for Monsterberg aren't meant to have a lot of magic. Just small things, cantrips, alchemy, maybe a couple of low powered spells. Some of the villains, one in particular, has some rather nasty spells but I would think that could be somewhat hand-waved as far as rules. Anyway, it's all explained in the book. Without knowing the details, Alchemy and Witchcraft seems to me like it should cover the rest, since that is largely what magic boils down to in Codex world.
 
PencilBoy99 said:
What's the big difference then inn fighting technology between the settings era and the one covered by Renaissance d100
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Lofgeornost Lofgeornost

has answered this well. Although the differences are quite large since Renaissance is uses a specific setting - fantasy-ish *English* civil war era, personally I don't think it's a great fit. On the other hand it is mechanically a simple, more vanilla BRP variant, and it is probably less work to use it than Mythras just with the core book. The magic and alchemy rules in Renaissance are quite fun and would work well for the earlier period.

My choice would be Mythras + Mythic Constantinople for the period details (1450) athough the region is off by quite a bit (being Mediterranean) the technology and some of the culures are a good fit, with a huge number of organisations and communities to draw from and good representation of martial orders, arms & armour and Mythras Combat Styles.

On the Mythras Discord homebrew for Codex - it is a combination of combat styles, new special effects and traits which add to the ones in core Mythras. The system already has an issue with some for "analysis paralysis" when it comes to combat, providing a means for essentially multiplying this problem is not necessarily that attractive for GMs or players. There are some workable ideas in there but the whole thing needs a proper review looking at the system as a whole to avoid duplication, crossover and contradiction with Mythras core rules.

Since the publication of the Mythras Imperative ORC books and licence, a more developed attempt to represent a HEMA approach could be written and released, even as a commercial product. The audience for such a thing would be absolutely tiny though, given that the Codex adventure-campaigns specifically are written for a different system - so you either need to convert or replace the published adventure material anyway, even if you had a period-tailored Mythras as a base system.
 
There is no particular reason you would need HEMA type combat abilities to play the Monsterberg adventures. You just need something that allows the players to leverage a bit of pre-planning or deviousness to improve their odds, I'm not sure how that is done precisely in Mythras, but i gather it's a fairly prosaic as distinct from quasi-superhero type system. What the Codex combat system really does is just let your players who like to really dig in and get the most of combat do so and improve their rates of survival thereby.
 
Lofgeornost said:
Renaissance is not as detailed in its combat system as some other D100 offerings--it does not use hit locations, for instance. If you wanted those, you could turn to Mythras, Legend (~Mongoose RQII, very cheap at $1 PDF), or BRP. One issue in using Mythras would be defining the 'Combat Styles'--that is, packages of weapons and/or shields--that count as a single skill in character generation. Maybe Bilharzia Bilharzia could comment on how this was done in adaptations for the Discord?
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The way it works for the group!
Usually 3-4 weapons and a shield for good measure are considered about right. But there's a huge difference between Street Fighting (knife, stick and knuckle duster), Moro Insurgent Training (knife, "shortsword", stick, grappling), and La Esgrima Classica (rapier, epee, saber, main-gauche).

OK, admittedly those examples are from Raiders of R'lyeh (or LEC is probably my own), but that's very much a Mythras variant, mechanically. And nothing changes if it's Shield Wall training (sword, axe, spear, shortsword) instead...

...However, you could very well make it a single weapon per "style", effectively duplicating the feel of old-school games. Just remember, in old-school d100 all skills you used successfully were getting an improvement mark - in Mythras, unless you backport it, only 2-4 experience checks are awarded (that you can use wherever).
Then again, you can use the "check all skills you used" method, too. If you don't, however, I'd recommend sticking to the above...but find what works best for you:shade:!
 
Peter Von Danzig said:
Much appreciated sir. Let me know what you think of it when you have the time.
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It's quite marvelous. You did a very nice job toeing the line between combat detail and OSR sensibilities. I am inspired to futz about with a WHFRP-inspired free-form magic system using the same mechanic, just to see what can be done with it. I think it would be trivially easy to import a more standard OSR magic system if that's what someone wanted. I know you have magic rules in your other game, and I'm planning to get that as well eventually so I can see how you handled that and a higher crunch level.
 
Fenris-77 said:
It's quite marvelous. You did a very nice job toeing the line between combat detail and OSR sensibilities. I am inspired to futz about with a WHFRP-inspired free-form magic system using the same mechanic, just to see what can be done with it. I think it would be trivially easy to import a more standard OSR magic system if that's what someone wanted. I know you have magic rules in your other game, and I'm planning to get that as well eventually so I can see how you handled that and a higher crunch level.
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Thanks so much. Yes it is designed to be kind of 'modular' and 'scaleable' if you will forgive me for using those slightly annoying terms. So you should be able to plug in any other magic system.

Codex Superno, our magic book, is due for a big update to remove the OGL stuff and we're going to add a lot to it as well. I'll post on here when the update is out, probably some time in February.
 
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Peter Von Danzig said:
Thanks so much. Yes it is designed to be kind of 'modular' and 'scaleable' if you will forgive me for using those slightly annoying terms. So you should be able to plug in any other magic system.

Codex Superno, our magic book, is due for a big update to remove the OGL stuff and we're going to add a lot to it as well. I'll post on here when the update is out, probably some time in February.
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If I bought the current PDF to peruse before the update will the update be free? I'm not asking for a handout but if it's going to be a whole other book I'll hold off until it's out.
 
Fenris-77 said:
If I bought the current PDF to peruse before the update will the update be free? I'm not asking for a handout but if it's going to be a whole other book I'll hold off until it's out.
Click to expand...

Of course the update is free, just click "allow updates" and you should get it. For whatever reason only about half of my customers seem to click that though, (or set permission to receive emails from us) so i try to make people aware on forums, our Discord, etc. when significant updates are pending or released.
 
One of the things about Codex Integrum, Stara Szkola etc., is that I have kind of another 'hat' I wear as a historical researcher. When I or one of my friends from the HEMA world or academia find some interesting new (old) source for these times and places where our games are set, (which happens all the time), I sometimes add material -stories, characters, maps, artwork- to our existing books that deal with those same settings. It's always free.
 
Ok, i have a pretty good picture of what an adventurer might look like in 1750 - probably not heavy armor, maybe there are some people that still wear breastplate like the spaniards, matchlock guns, sort of thinner swords.

What does this look like in 1450? the same? that can't be right. Are people still walking around in full fancy plate? If so why, given that we established that flintlock guns exist.
 
There are matchlock guns, not flintlock, though there are also cannons and various other diabolical things like volley guns.

I don't think many people were wearing armor in battle in 1750, except a few 'cuirasser' cavalry who wore a (extra heavy) breast plate and a helmet.

Firearms don't automatically defeat the best armor of this era.

Typical adventurer in 1450 could be wearing mail, breast plate, jack of plates, coat of plates, brigandine or textile armor. They would probably have a helmet and might have armor on their arms or legs. Leg armor is the least likely if they are walking around a lot.

Something like 'half armor' would probably be typical for better equipped people expecting to fight.

1706299611823.jpeg
Kit a bit like this looks fairly plausible to me

There are, by the way, pre-gen player characters provided with Monsterberg I, and you can look at their armor as a guideline.
 
Peter, why are they wearing armor. Wouldn't a 50 caliber bullet punch right through that stuff? Is it that guns are super slow to load or are inaccurate?
 
The short answer is - I don't know, that is what they wore though. I believe we posted this in the thread earlier, but here it is again.

1706385316050.jpeg

Notice that, though firearms were around since the 1300s, it's not until the 1600s that armor really starts to decline (more realistically, not until the second half of the 16th Century.

Longer answer, (assuming you are really interested to know or to read more than the above):

Top quality armor was apparently bullet proof against an arquebus at almost any range, and probably still would be up to a modern pistol round. A .50 caliber smoothbore firearm is about the equivalent of a modern shotgun shooting slugs. It hits hard, but it's not like a modern copper jacketed bullet shot from a rifle.

There was a NOVA special a few years ago where they very carefully reconstructed a 16th Century breastplate (down to smelting their own iron) and tested it against a musket (more powerful than an arquebus) at 20', and it bounced off.

Lesser armor, plate or brigandine, probably would still protect you if shot from longer ranges. Smoothbore firearm bullets lose energy pretty quickly.

The mail those guys are wearing wouldn't stop a firearm except at very long range, and the cuirass third guy from the left has probably wouldn't either depending on the range, but not everyone had firearms. It wasn't like the Wild West where everyone had a six shooter on their hip. Firearms were mostly for larger armies or militias, the main missile weapon was still the bow and crossbow. That armor those guys are wearing is probably sufficient to protect against 95% of the weapons they are likely to face in anything other than a full fledged battle, in which case they probably wouldn't be the guys on the very front line, but maybe skirmishers etc. Or they might carry bullet proof shields.

1706385559035.jpeg

It's a bit like modern soldiers. When I was in the Army we had a hard kevlar helmet and a soft kevlar vest. I don't think the vest protected for more than shrapnel or maybe pistols. Now days they have ballistic plates etc. which can stop a rifle bullet (if it doesn't have an AP round), but it's certainly limited protection and won't save you from a modern .50 cal, or an artillery shell blowing up nearby. Or probably even from a .30 caliber machine gun. But it's better than nothing.
 
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