The Oscars: Chris Rock and the Fresh Prints of Bel-Air

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Black Leaf said:
No, although I might start calling myself one as apparently it means you can say absolutely anything without consequences for you.

I just have no sympathy for a guy that went out of his way to offend and then had to deal with the consequences of that.

(Also, we're talking about a slap. It's not like Will Smith kicked the shit out of him. If you think that's serious violence than I can only assume you live in a nunnery).
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Please, bro. I'm American. I've stared down the barrel of a pistol a time or two. I've taken a few beatings in my day, the most harrowing and severe of which was 3 on 1 (I was the 1). But violence is violence. If he hit his wife that way because she offended him, would that not be "serious" violence? Your appraisal of this situation seems to hinge on whether you agree with the point of view of the talker or the hitter. Mine doesn't.

Edit: also, "calling yourself a comedian" doesn't make you one, any more than calling yourself a proctologist gives you license to go around sticking your finger up strangers' asses.
 
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These people are at work.

Imagine if you did what Smith did at work? What would happen then?

I'm sure a lot of people in that room decided they wouldn't want to be on set with a guy like that.

Just look at the hit David O. Russell's career took when that footage of him losing his shit on Lily Tomlin leaked.
 
Voros said:
These people are at work.

Imagine if you did what Smith did at work? What would happen then?

I'm sure a lot of people in that room decided they wouldn't want to be on set with a guy like that.

Just look at the hit David O. Russell's career took when that footage of him losing his shit on Lily Tomlin leaked.
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If a colleague had made jokes about my wife, I'm pretty sure he'd get fired without me having to do anything.

I wish I could get that drunk at work though.
 
Giganotosaurus said:
What I want to know is what the hell 2 rich bastards having a slapping fight has to do with the pestilence that is Nu-TSR and the schadenfreude associated with it's fall?
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You're like new to this thread, yeah?
opaopajr said:
This thread has become the Massing of All Tangents: the MoAT. It is to keep out geese I'm sure.
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Gringnr said:
Are you a comedian? Do you have a list of topics comedians should avoid discussing?
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It doesn't work like that, there's no list of banned subjects. The general rule is "don't make fun of people for things they can't control", eg. you can punch up at people with authority over you, or sideways at people in a minority group with you (But that's risky), but you can't punch down... and, indeed, why would you? Where's the challenge there?

(There's a word for the type of comedy built around purely punching down, it's "bullying".)

And there's a big difference between joking amongst friends and something going too far - apologise, move on, don't do it again - and a scripted dig to a worldwide audience.
 
Black Leaf said:
If a colleague had made jokes about my wife, I'm pretty sure he'd get fired without me having to do anything.

I wish I could get that drunk at work though.
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The difference is that telling jokes is Rock's job. I'm sure all his jokes are reviewed ahead of time as well. When he hosted in the past he went much further.

I'd argue that for the Oscars and other award shows the tone should be lighter and they shouldn't book the kind of insult comics they seem to gravitate to since Crystal stopped hosting, Gervais and the like. I guess it mist help with the ratings if they keep doing it though.

That incident aside though this would rate as the worse Oscar show since I started watching them when I was 12 or so. The jokes and skits (skits are always a bad idea) were bad, the memorial tribute was bungled and inappropriate ('Spirit in the Sky' and dancing?) and the cutting of the tech awards (including sound and editing!) and treatment of the great Japanese filmmaker Hamaguchi was disrespectful.

The Godfather, Bond and Pulp Fiction tributes were also poorly done and for Pulp didn't even make any sense (it was its 28th anniversary?).

The music, Billie Elish aside, was poor and they even included a performance of a song that wasn't nominated!!

The 'populist' internet awards were hilariously gamed by Synder fans (the Flash enters the Speed Force!) while Dune was excluded despite its immense popularity because they decided to sideline the tech awards.

And why did they cut the honorary lifetime awards to Samuel Jackson and Liv Ullman? It would have been touching and classy. Hell Ullman is one of the greatest actors in film history!

And then they wheeled out poor Liza (who I adore and is brilliant) who seemed completely lost but thankfully Lady Gaga saved the day with her respect and consideration. Never cared for her music but I gotta say Gaga's acting career is much more to my taste.

And the whole thing ended up as long as ever anyway!

As someone else noted online the only good parts were when someone received an award and gave a speech (Kostur, Hamaguchi, Chastain, Costner). Maybe they should stick to that, duh.
 
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Voros said:
The difference is that telling jokes is Rock's job. I'm sure all his jokes are reviewed ahead of time as well. When he hosted in the past he went much further.

I'd argue that for the Oscars and other award shows the tone should be lighter and they shouldn't book the kind of insult comics they seem to gravitate to since Crystal stopped hosting, Gervais and the like. I guess it mist help with the ratings if they keep doing it though.
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Because they hope for things like this. The Oscars keep becoming less and less relevant. Honestly, had the Will Smith vs. Chris Rock altercation last night not taken place, I would have had no idea that the Oscars even happened. It was probably the best thing that happened to the Oscars in years.
 
Ladybird said:
It doesn't work like that, there's no list of banned subjects. The general rule is "don't make fun of people for things they can't control", eg. you can punch up at people with authority over you, or sideways at people in a minority group with you (But that's risky), but you can't punch down... and, indeed, why would you? Where's the challenge there?

(There's a word for the type of comedy built around purely punching down, it's "bullying".)

And there's a big difference between joking amongst friends and something going too far - apologise, move on, don't do it again - and a scripted dig to a worldwide audience.
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I'm not saying Rock was in the right. Quite the opposite. But I still don't condone Smith's behavior. Both were in the wrong. If Smith had handled it differently, only one would have been in the wrong. Imagine if Smith had strode up there, told Rock that making fun of his wife's illness (even obliquely) was out of bounds, and demanded an apology? Heat of the moment, I get it, but still.

You know what else is bullying? Assaulting someone much smaller than yourself. It's always been crazy to me how people think a man hitting a woman is terrible (it is), but a man beating up a smaller, weaker man is a-OK (it isn't).

I'm just of the opinion that the only time violence is acceptable is in self-defense. Even if someone is "punching down". I thought it was pretty sick when Ari Shaffir celebrated the death of Kobe Bryant. I didn't wish violence on him over it, though.
 
Apparition said:
Because they hope for things like this. The Oscars keep becoming less and less relevant. Honestly, had the Will Smith vs. Chris Rock altercation last night not taken place, I would have had no idea that the Oscars even happened. It was probably the best thing that happened to the Oscars in years.
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Not sure when the Oscars were ever 'relevant.'

People complain that the nominated films are usually art films or even non-US but the whole point is supposedly to award excellence not what did the best at the Box Office. Those films already 'won' by making bank.

The real issue with the Oscars is that the too often award mediocre, crowd-pleasing and worthy 'Oscar Bait' movies like the kind of films Smith has been starring in a naked attempt to get an award.

Infamously, play a well known historical figure or someone with a disability and you'll win an Oscar (Tropic Thunder nailed this).

Great actors get awards for some of their worse work in second-rate films, like Chastain did last night for the Tammy Faye movie.

Great directors tend to get screwed in general, only being recognized at the Lifetime Award level.

The list of great actors and directors who never won an Oscar far outpaces those who did.

So I've never taken the Oscars at the level of expecting them to actually award the best films, performances and directors but it has been fun to watch for the nominees, the speechs and the rare time a good film or performance actually wins.
 
Voros said:
Smith could have talked to Rock later and demanded an apology or called him out for the disrespect during his speech or to the press after the awards

Also by hitting him in that situation Smith is cowardly as he knows that there's no way that Rock could respond in kind, Rock was the one who had to be professional and he knew it. Could you imagine how humiliating it would have been for the Black community in the US if Rock had thrown hands in return?
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For one, this wasn't the first time Rock has punched down at the Smith family. For the second thing, for Rock to have done it so many times- there's only so much anyone can take. And that's what his speech was about.
 
chuckdee said:
For one, this wasn't the first time Rock has punched down at the Smith family. For the second thing, for Rock to have done it so many times- there's only so much anyone can take. And that's what his speech was about.
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There is no 'punching down' when one millionaire mocks another millionaire.

The Smiths are smug hypocrites whose self-importance deserves to be mocked.

Smith himself is a known abusive prick on set so all his 'vessel of love' spiel is rank bullshit.

The joke was in bad taste and it was the wrong venue to make it but seriously screw them.
 
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www.mirror.co.uk

'Will Smith was wrong to slap Chris Rock - there is no excuse for violence'

Polly Hudson says that when Will Smith slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars, the dangerous message that if a man loves you, he is violent around you, was reaffirmed to women everywhere
www.mirror.co.uk www.mirror.co.uk
First things first: it was a terrible joke. Unacceptably mean, ludicrously dated (GI Jane came out in 1997) and just not funny. But that doesn’t matter. There is never any excuse for violence. The end.

Will Smith thought he was defending his wife, but she didn’t look like she needed defending. She’s not a helpless damsel, she’s a strong, independent woman, successful in her own right. Her response to the gag – a withering eye roll – was perfect, all that was needed. She had already handled it herself.

Her husband resorting to physical assault was the lowest of the low. That the ugly moment was broadcast all over the world also means the dangerous message that if a man loves you, he is violent around you has been reaffirmed to women everywhere…
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I'm wondering if this should be split off to its own thread?

Although I've had my say at this point so...
 
What does 'from the back' mean here? I thought I knew most sexual lingo.

 
Well that was a nice success for the Academy and our Hollywood gods and goddesses! I mean, everyone is talking about the Oscars again! More than in ages, it seems!

Let's see how long our Oligarch overlords can milk this for attention and $$$.

Oh I'm SUUUURE the Academy will "investigate" this whole affair (wink wink). Long enough to generate buzz and keep the social media free advertising alive.

They're so clever :smile:

(I hate pop culture and celebrity worship so damned much)
 
As a little guy who's mouth wrote cheques his body couldn't cash a few times, I gotta say, a little guy oughta know better than to provoke a guy who can crush him.

There's a problem in the world where people can say things and then hide behind the law to avoid the consequences.
 
Voros said:
There is no 'punching down' when one millionaire mocks another millionaire.
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We'll have to agree to disagree. When you have a condition that you have no control over, mocking that condition is punching down.
 
Endless Flight said:
www.cnn.com

Academy 'condemns' actions of Will Smith at Oscars, starts 'formal review' of slapping incident | CNN

The Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences in a statement issued on Monday condemned the actions of best actor winner Will Smith after the "King Richard" star stormed the stage and slapped presenter Chris Rock in the face during Sunday's Oscars ceremony.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
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Well I guess they're between a Rock and a hard place



(ok... I'll see myself out, heh heh :grin:)
 
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chuckdee said:
We'll have to agree to disagree. When you have a condition that you have no control over, mocking that condition is punching down.
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And that's without even getting into gender. I agree with chuckdee on this.

David Johansen said:
As a little guy who's mouth wrote cheques his body couldn't cash a few times, I gotta say, a little guy oughta know better than to provoke a guy who can crush him.

There's a problem in the world where people can say things and then hide behind the law to avoid the consequences.
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That's like saying a woman should know better than to mouth off to a man. It's not OK to hurt someone just because you can. As far as "hiding behind" the law, Rock hasn't filed charges, though I wouldn't blame him if he did. Using the law as intended (i.e., enforcing the idea that you can't assault someone for offending you) isn't "hiding behind" anything. If anything, Smith was guilty of "hiding behind" his status as a wealthy celebrity, knowing that he would likely not face any consequences from this. The rich and powerful live by different sets of rules than the rest of us.

Endless Flight said:
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This is all that Will Smith can be expected to do at this point. People F up, but he's taking responsibility, and hats off to him for that. I believe him when he says he's embarassed.
 
It's not just mouthing off, it's deliberately crossing a line because you know you can get away with it and the other person can't do anything about it.

It's not as much about violence as abuse with impunity. And the rich most certainly derive more protection from the law than the poor.
 
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