Cyber Future RPGs

Best Selling RPGs - Available Now @ DriveThruRPG.com
Mankcam

Mankcam

Hallowed Be Thy Swo
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
5,656
Reaction score
16,537
As a teen I remember loving my mate's Cyberspace rpg. It used the ICE system, similar to MERP but it was for Cyber future.

I do have a recent version of Shadowrun and quite like it, although the system framework itself I am not overly sold on.

I'm considering getting another Cyber Future rpg at some stage, and at present I've narrowed my choices down to Cyberpunk Red and Cy_Borg.
1684726461851.png
Anyone have any opinions on the strengths and weaknesses of either of these, and how they compare?
 
Last edited:
I am currently playing a Cyberpunk RED campaign. I don't like the system very much. We basically play it, because our GM really likes the CPR lore, but the system is meh IMHO.
  • I don't like the skill list. There are more than 60 skills, but even the official character sheet highlights the important ones. Suggesting that the rest might not be used that much during the game, which is true for the game I am playing.
    • Small gripe of mine - the skills are also not divided into the categories very well, it often takes time to find a particular skill in the charsheet.
  • There is a MOVE stat, which specifies how far can you move during a single combat round. And the weapons have range tables (how difficult it is to hit for a particular range). Which means the combat is meant to be played with maps (to clearly indicate distances), not "theater of the mind".
  • Each role (class) has a different role-specific skill. This is all extremely subjective of course, but we have not found any role-specific skill that we would really like. I think that in our group the system is generally not helping us to role play, it is a bit in the way of role playing.
  • I would like to note however that if I had to play a decker/netrunner character in a cyberpunk-themed game, I would definitely pick CPR over Shadowrun. I think it's easier.
I haven't play CY_BORG, but I think you are looking at two pretty different games here. While CY_BORG is rules light with "roll your character fast" approach, CPR has more complex rules and uses a lifepath system for character creation (even though, there are rules for random character generation).
 
From that description it sounds like Cyberpunk Red would have appealed to my younger self, but something more skills-lite and less minis-focused may be more my thing these days.
I'ld have to see a Cy_Borg rules breakdown, but it may be more where my GM head is at present. Although Cy_Borg may be a bit too nihilistic for ongoing play with my group. I do like that you said Cyberpunk Red has a lifepath char gen.

Hmmm, I just stumbled across this review of Hack The Planet which looks interesting...
 
Last edited:
I own Cyberpunk Red, but after playing the PC game, I see myself doing a few hacks before I play it. I like it’s presentation and the life path rules.

I’m a bit burned out on the Mork Borg hype train, so I can’t comment on that.
 
Really it depends on the type of game you plan on running.

Most folks I know still prefer CP 2020 to Red (both the setting and some of the rules like conditional modifiers), but Red has updated rules for Netrunning (which is a good thing, as the original rules for netrunning were terrible). Red is also focused on the poverty simulation (which is totally cool, if that's your thing). For example, the old netrunning system was so bad that some groups used the Netrunner card game to simulate netruns in game as a substitute (If you can, make netrunners NPC hirelings rather than a player being a netrunner).

Cy_Borg is extremely rules-lite (this can be good or bad, depends on your taste). I've got a hardcover copy (my wife bought it as a gift during the OGL debacle to cheer me up). Making a character is really easy and quick (& you can randomly generate characters online in seconds). Be sure to ignore the original Mork Borg rules on Armor, they have been changed so attacks always deal a minimum of 1 damage (in Mork Borg you roll a die for armor to prevent damage). Additionally, equipment is on the light side (only 20 pieces of cyberwear in the book).

CP Red will likely require more prep, and more familiarity with the rules (like the Friday Night Firefight rules) & Setting, while Cy_Borg is leaning towards more basic rules (so easy to learn for new players) & the setting is light enough that you can do what you want with it on the fly.

So it really depends: If your players are RPG veterans or CP fans, no reason not to try out Red. If your players don't know anything about the CP Red book rpg, you can easily simulate the CP world in a CY_Borg game.

Final note: Don't expect cyberwear in CP Red to act like it does in the video game CP 2077 or the anime series (the Sandy only works like that in the show and in CP 2077, in the book it just adds some flat bonuses).
 
I like them both, but given a choice, I'd personally go with Hack the Planet, The Veil, or The Sprawl.
 
If you are a fan of Sine Nomine's Stars Without Number or Worlds Without Number, I'm really liking what I'm seeing from Cities Without Number so far (it's in development and Kickstarter backers get weekly updates).
 
I own and like both games. My question would be: what kind of game are you looking for? Run a campaign or a one-shot?

If you have limited prep time and only want to run a one-shot, Cy_Borg is brutally effective. The world, while evocative is paper-thin so you'd better have a good grasp of the cyberpunk genre to run your session as you'll make up most of the setting as you go. It's almost a shoot'em up game where everything will end in flames. It's fun but...

...I would go with Cyberpunk Red as it is much more versatile (in terms of settings and characters) and gives the whole group more choices on the type of campaign everyone would like to play: a cyber-version of Midwich Cuckoos? a Black Lagoon-like setting? A Jim Profit-like campaign with an all corporate team? Go for it.
 
Art's Puzzlebox said:
Really it depends on the type of game you plan on running.

Most folks I know still prefer CP 2020 to Red (both the setting and some of the rules like conditional modifiers), but Red has updated rules for Netrunning (which is a good thing, as the original rules for netrunning were terrible). Red is also focused on the poverty simulation (which is totally cool, if that's your thing). For example, the old netrunning system was so bad that some groups used the Netrunner card game to simulate netruns in game as a substitute (If you can, make netrunners NPC hirelings rather than a player being a netrunner).

Cy_Borg is extremely rules-lite (this can be good or bad, depends on your taste). I've got a hardcover copy (my wife bought it as a gift during the OGL debacle to cheer me up). Making a character is really easy and quick (& you can randomly generate characters online in seconds). Be sure to ignore the original Mork Borg rules on Armor, they have been changed so attacks always deal a minimum of 1 damage (in Mork Borg you roll a die for armor to prevent damage). Additionally, equipment is on the light side (only 20 pieces of cyberwear in the book).

CP Red will likely require more prep, and more familiarity with the rules (like the Friday Night Firefight rules) & Setting, while Cy_Borg is leaning towards more basic rules (so easy to learn for new players) & the setting is light enough that you can do what you want with it on the fly.

So it really depends: If your players are RPG veterans or CP fans, no reason not to try out Red. If your players don't know anything about the CP Red book rpg, you can easily simulate the CP world in a CY_Borg game.

Final note: Don't expect cyberwear in CP Red to act like it does in the video game CP 2077 or the anime series (the Sandy only works like that in the show and in CP 2077, in the book it just adds some flat bonuses).
Click to expand...
My group and I still prefer CP2020 to Red.
 
My first PbtA game was the Sprawl, and I ran a 6 or 7 session game that was enough fun to have me looking into more PbtA games. I recently played in a two part Cy_Borg game as a player and had a blast. The referee was using a CP2020 mission in the tales of night city source book. We were crafty and had some lucky rolls so we finished up in good shape. It seemed like the trick was managing those Glitches for maximum effect. I'd definitely give it another go.

I've got Cyberpunk Red, but just haven't been able to get it to the table yet.
 
If you don't mind psychic powers in your cyberpunk, there's the FUDGE-based Psi-Punk.
 
Dyrnwyn said:
If you are a fan of Sine Nomine's Stars Without Number or Worlds Without Number, I'm really liking what I'm seeing from Cities Without Number so far (it's in development and Kickstarter backers get weekly updates).
Click to expand...
I like the trappings in these books, but I find it weird that the core mechanic dice are different dice to skill dice.

Other than that, I like everything else in these books
 
Mankcam said:
I like the trappings in these books, but I find it weird that the core mechanic dice are different dice to skill dice.

Other than that, I like everything else in these books
Click to expand...
I actually like that, the idea that skills are something the characters are competent in and pretty predicable compared to the more swingy and chaotic (random) nature of combat. It is an interesting way to use mechanics to inject verisimilitude into the game.
 
sharps54 said:
I actually like that, the idea that skills are something the characters are competent in and pretty predicable compared to the more swingy and chaotic (random) nature of combat. It is an interesting way to use mechanics to inject verisimilitude into the game.
Click to expand...
:thumbsup:

I'd have disliked it for the same reason for the past. Since then, I've grown to appreciate that approach. I still prefer an unified resolution, mind you, but at least it's not a deal-breaker:grin:!
 
Perhaps it is because D&D wasn't my original game, it was RQ, and then every game I played after that used core mechanic resolution as well.
By the time I actually played D&D (pre-3E) I found it really odd with all the different dice mechanics, and never really reconciled that.
So yeah, that is a definate deal breaker for me, and in this instance it is a shame because I pretty much like everything else I have seen in Kevin Crawford's material.
 
Mankcam said:
Perhaps it is because D&D wasn't my original game, it was RQ, and then every game I played after that used core mechanic resolution as well.
By the time I actually played D&D (pre-3E) I found it really odd with all the different dice mechanics, and never really reconciled that.
So yeah, that is a definate deal breaker for me, and in this instance it is a shame because I pretty much like everything else I have seen in Kevin Crawford's material.
Click to expand...
I can understand that, I grew up on
TSR games (D&D, Gamma World, Top Secret) and moved on to Palladium and MERP so unified mechanics, aside from the chart in Marvel Super Heroes, weren’t a thing.
 
I'll just say that every time I've attempted to read Cyberpunk Red, I've just bounced off it. Not sure why. CP2020 or even 2013 are just much more fun to read and flip through.
 
Gabriel said:
I'll just say that every time I've attempted to read Cyberpunk Red, I've just bounced off it. Not sure why. CP2020 or even 2013 are just much more fun to read and flip through.
Click to expand...
I really struggled to read through Cyberpunk Red. After finishing it, I had a bunch of various nagging questions in my mind that when I tried to get answers I was rebuffed on Reddit. I found that Seth Skorkowsky's video review on CP Red fell in line with a lot of my own issues that I had with my read through. If I really felt like running Cyberpunk I'd run CP2020 and steal mechanics from other game systems. Better yet, just run it using GURPS.

Oh and here's his review from 7 months ago.

 
I'm a huge fan of everything RTG, but I would run CP2020 before Red. Overall, Mike Pondsmith's time working for Microsoft seemed to lead him down a path where he was more interested in video-game type mechanics as opposed to some of the techniques that exist in TTRPGs overall. It gave me the same feeling of a lack of depth that I think Gabriel is talking about there; while I like the lore of the CP world, I just can't get into CPR as a game.

As an additional suggestion, I really like Sprawlrunners (for the Shadowrun feel) or Interface 3.0 (for the pure cyberpunk feel), both for Savage Worlds.
 
See, I am the reverse of most of you. I like the game system. I have played interlock/ fuzion in lots of iterations. It just works for me as a balance between build and roll your character. I find the skills to be useful (and the ability to make more at the drop of a hat works). I like the core abilities. Sure, I do add things from the Interface Magazine and various supplements (Agents, everything from Hardwired, everything from Gravity Fails, and such. Not so much all the chrome books.)

I like most of the lore, but if I play cyberpunk I am "back in the day" of 2020. In fact, we tended to play in a world "loosely based" on the lore. We had a more street centered game, with no real "runners" doing corporate missions. I
 
Acmegamer said:
I really struggled to read through Cyberpunk Red. After finishing it, I had a bunch of various nagging questions in my mind that when I tried to get answers I was rebuffed on Reddit. I found that Seth Skorkowsky's video review on CP Red fell in line with a lot of my own issues that I had with my read through. If I really felt like running Cyberpunk I'd run CP2020 and steal mechanics from other game systems. Better yet, just run it using GURPS.

Oh and here's his review from 7 months ago.

Click to expand...

I like his review, but most of the things he says about the mechanics are easily house ruled, and many of them I did. I think they were pushing it to get out and made some changes that might, with more time, have been better tested. However, nothing that I bounced off of, or that made me not want to run it.
 
Yeesh I feel bad for having bought Cyberpunk Red and the starting boxed set. I thought the game system read just fine, but the general opinion here seems to be that it’s complete shit.

That or I just have lower standards than the rest of you.
 
Necrozius said:
Yeesh I feel bad for having bought Cyberpunk Red and the starting boxed set. I thought the game system read just fine, but the general opinion here seems to be that it’s complete shit.

That or I just have lower standards than the rest of you.
Click to expand...
I don’t think it’s shit, I enjoyed playing it, but I prefer CP2020 both mechanically and setting wise. We always hired NPC net runners so that wasn’t an issue for us in 2020 and while Red tries to address the problem a net runners turn still takes longer than someone in meat space.

If I had never played 2020 I’d have a higher opinion of Red. It isn’t bad it just we just like 2020 better.
 
Gringnr said:
You mean there isn't one already? I'm surprised.
Click to expand...
Now that you say it, I went and looked, and there already is...

DriveThruRPG

www.drivethrurpg.com www.drivethrurpg.com
For $3 AUD ($2 USD) I decided to grab it.
It sure ain't pretty, nil artwork, not all that inspring to read either. At this stage it's just some dude's homebrew take on Cyber Future using Black Hack engine, I wonder if it will ever get revisited with a bit of polishing it up?
However due to the simplicity of the Black Hack engine, this might play quite well at the table.
It needs a lot more meat on the bone before I'ld roll it out to players however, but it'ld be a good game if fleshed out a bit more and a few coats of paint on it.
Being a tinkerer GM I can do a bit with it for my own games, so I won't rule this game out.
 
Last edited:
Mankcam said:
Kobayashi Kobayashi
Maybe it's time for a Black Cyber Hack?!!!
:shade: :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

:grin: Tempting... But I'm kinda burned-out on the OSR/Black Hack side of things, I need some change!

Dammit Victor said:
Holy shit. That was my favorite television show of all time.
Click to expand...

The moment that redhead gives him a big french kiss and he replies "hello mother" still gets me to this day :shock:
 
Mankcam said:
Maybe it's time for a Black Cyber Hack?!!!
Click to expand...

Gringnr said:
You mean there isn't one already? I'm surprised.
Click to expand...

There's also Mirrorshades which is based on The Black Hack. I liked it and it's pretty complete. The only real problem with it is that I can't find a PDF of it anymore. Looks like the creator has pulled it from sale for some reason. The physical book is still available through some channels, like Amazon, though.
 
Mankcam said:
It needs a lot more meat on the bone before I'ld roll it out to players however, but it'ld be a good game if fleshed out a bit more and a few coats of paint on it.
Click to expand...

What, specifically, would you say it needs more of?
 
IIRC Cyberspace didn't use the crit tables for net running stuff? Seemed like a huge oversight to me.
 
Necrozius said:
Yeesh I feel bad for having bought Cyberpunk Red and the starting boxed set. I thought the game system read just fine, but the general opinion here seems to be that it’s complete shit.

That or I just have lower standards than the rest of you.
Click to expand...
I don't even think the review is saying that. There's just areas that people are disappointed about. I think the improvements are worth just house ruling the few gaps.

Gringnr said:
IIRC Cyberspace didn't use the crit tables for net running stuff? Seemed like a huge oversight to me.
Click to expand...

It does. It's just not generalized - it's based on the ICE program used. For example, the Shocker ICE program delivers Electricity criticals of a severity based on the combat roll.
 
chuckdee said:
I don't even think the review is saying that. There's just areas that people are disappointed about. I think the improvements are worth just house ruling the few gaps.



It does. It's just not generalized - it's based on the ICE program used. For example, the Shocker ICE program delivers Electricity criticals of a severity based on the combat roll.
Click to expand...
Ohhhhh. Do they use one for dumpshock?
 
Necrozius said:
Yeesh I feel bad for having bought Cyberpunk Red and the starting boxed set. I thought the game system read just fine, but the general opinion here seems to be that it’s complete shit.

That or I just have lower standards than the rest of you.
Click to expand...

Well, in my totally irrelevant opinion I think it's a good game, i.e it does what I expect of it: it gives me a solid framework and cool characters and I can do pretty much what I want with it.
 
Gringnr said:
Ohhhhh. Do they use one for dumpshock?
Click to expand...
They have a static maneuver chart for icebreaking and those can cascade depending on the ice into equipment mishandling or malfunction charts which give you the other effects - not specifically a critical, but some pretty nasty stuff (and can include electric, heat and shrapnel crits depending on how bad it messes up your cyberdeck). The ones that would be equivalent to dumpshock would just be rounds of stun (or in the case of one virus, it can loop your cyberware paralyzing you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Banner: The best cosmic horror & Cthulhu Mythos @ DriveThruRPG.com
Back
Top