D&D Survey

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Voros said:
I honestly didn’t get the feeling the survey had anything to do with plans for a new edition.

It seemed more geared to figuring out what kind of peripherals (gift sets, special editions, minis, landscapes, dice, tshirts, etc) the fanbase was interested in buying.
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Dumarest said:
If I didn't know better I'd think they were in it for the money.
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For me, D&D 5E is definately the best version of D&D that WotC has done.
I like that they culled the skills down, simplified modifiers to Advantage/Disadvantage Dice, and use the same stats for Ability Rolls and Saving Rolls. Even got some 'narrative' components which can help roleplaying the characters, rather than just rule-playing them.
Really smoothed things up mechanically, and its a long way from the D&D 3E/Pathfinder busy character sheets.

However it just doesnt have that old school vibe that early TSR books had. If they ask me what is my favourite edition of D&D, I'm likely to post a picture of Goodman Games 'Dungeon Crawl Classics' heh heh

But I am not their target audience, with systems like BRP (RQ, CoC), Fate, PbtA, Cypher, D6, Storyteller, SW, etc that are a lot more on my radar than D&D
 
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While I love the core books, I did make sure to communicate how little interest I had for most of their supplements or forthcoming products. The PHB is so complete I'm usually better off homebrewing what little else I need. It's nice not being on a splat treadmill.
 
I struggled with the three games question. This year, I have been playing/running Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate, Savage Worlds, Delta Green, Dungeon Crawl Classics, my homebrewed version of B/X and Rob Conley's version of D&D, The Majestic Wilderlands. They are all great games, so I had to be arbitrary in picking three.

This survey was clearly biased in favor of people that don't game enough.
 
Mankcam said:
For me, D&D 5E is definately the best version of D&D that WotC has done.
I like that they culled the skills down, simplified modifiers to Advantage/Disadvantage Dice, and use the same stats for Ability Rolls and Saving Rolls. Even got some 'narrative' components which can help roleplaying the characters, rather than just rule-playing them.
Really smoothed things up mechanically, and its a long way from the D&D 3E/Pathfinder busy character sheets.

However it just doesnt have that old school vibe that early TSR books had. If they ask me what is my favourite edition of D&D, I'm likely to post a picture of Goodman Games 'Dungeon Crawl Classics' heh heh

But I am not their target audience, with systems like BRP (RQ, CoC), Fate, PbtA, Cypher, D6, Storyteller, SW, etc alot more on my radar than D&D
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I feel similarly. I like the 5e rules, but I think I'm rather turned off by the art, and that's where it misses the old-school vibe I prefer if I'm going to play D&D at all. In contrast, I'm not crazy about the rules of DCC, but DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN the art is sexy as hell ...
 
TheophilusCarter said:
I feel similarly. I like the 5e rules, but I think I'm rather turned off by the art, and that's where it misses the old-school vibe I prefer if I'm going to play D&D at all. In contrast, I'm not crazy about the rules of DCC, but DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN the art is sexy as hell ...
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Mate we gotta stop being on the same wavelength all the time, heh heh. The best version of D&D would be the D&D 5E rules covered in all the trappings of DCC. I agree with everything you just wrote :grin:
 
I had Traveller, Vampire and D&D (marginally ahead of Call of Cthulhu).
 
I also responded. WotC aren't going to like my responses either, but I included a shout-out to the Pub as "the forum where I follow D&D news":smile:.

Things I suspect they're going to love:

What are you likely to use in a game?
"None of your current settings, maybe older settings or 3PP, and non -D&D settings for better RPGs".
How likely are you to recommend D&D, 0-10?
6. Why do you say that? "Because there are many better RPGs".
List up to three favorite games: Classic Traveller, Maelstrom Gothic, Mythras (I didn't list Flashing Blades due to the lack of space:wink:).
 
OHT said:
I expect i was one of only a dozen or so who answered the 'favourite setting' as Other - Birthright. :sad:
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I know opaopajr is a fan too. Did you name drop it opaopajr?

I've come close to running Birthright a few times, though never with its actual dominion management rules. Most recently I contemplated using An Echo, Resounding by Sine Nomine to run it under 5e. Players starting as actual aristocrats with actual political power really intrigues me, but the opportunity has never been exactly 'right'.

Maybe next year, since I've been inspired by Nintendo's Fire Emblem franchise and its focus on grand scale feudal warfare and politics. I could run the weebiest Birthright campaign ever!

TheophilusCarter said:
I feel similarly. I like the 5e rules, but I think I'm rather turned off by the art, and that's where it misses the old-school vibe I prefer if I'm going to play D&D at all. In contrast, I'm not crazy about the rules of DCC, but DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN the art is sexy as hell ...
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This is fascinating to me because while I appreciate certain types of art over others (Russ Nicholson!), I would never disqualify a set of rules over the art it came bundled with. If that were the case, I certainly wouldn't still be considering Vampire: The Masquerade 5e and its unbelievably tacky art. :crossed:
 
Shipyard Locked said:
This is fascinating to me because while I appreciate certain types of art over others (Russ Nicholson!), I would never disqualify a set of rules over the art it came bundled with. If that were the case, I certainly wouldn't still be considering Vampire: The Masquerade 5e and its unbelievably tacky art. :crossed:
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My Dad was in the house when my copy arrived and sitting next to him of course one of the first pages I flipped to was the one with the geriatric dominatrix.
 
Shipyard Locked said:
This is fascinating to me because while I appreciate certain types of art over others (Russ Nicholson!), I would never disqualify a set of rules over the art it came bundled with. If that were the case, I certainly wouldn't still be considering Vampire: The Masquerade 5e and its unbelievably tacky art. :crossed:
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I don't disqualify 5e because of the art. I own it and have run it, and would again. I just don't like it as much as I would if I liked the aesthetic more.
 
The questionnaire is broken - at least on Android tablets.
Every question that asks for a year ("when did you start playing") has an empty pull-down menu.
Also, there is a question (46) with the header "Recommend D&D to someone" but the actual question is "would you recommend Magic the Gathering to other persons"...
 
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Shipyard Locked said:
This is fascinating to me because while I appreciate certain types of art over others (Russ Nicholson!), I would never disqualify a set of rules over the art it came bundled with. If that were the case, I certainly wouldn't still be considering Vampire: The Masquerade 5e and its unbelievably tacky art. :crossed:
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I like Russ Nicholson and Wayne Reynolds, great individual styles that perfectly fit their respective eras.
 
TheophilusCarter said:
I don't disqualify 5e because of the art. I own it and have run it, and would again. I just don't like it as much as I would if I liked the aesthetic more.
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The covers for the PHB and DMG aren't my thing but I like a lot of the interior art and some of the other covers. But then I even like the much disparaged halfings in the PHB.

Pl4CzKy.jpg 20bd38f03de2a15ce980064f4ce75395.jpg phb-warrior.jpg

The latest release Dragonheist has artwork by none other than Jason Thompson who has done one of his awesome walkthrough maps for The Yawning Portal tavern.

9de518m25ig11.jpg
 
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I started filling in the survey twice and quit somewhere halfway twice... It's just too much of a hassle. And I usually enjoy filling in surveys and polls and such.

I also think this survey isn't for me. I've played 5E once and enjoyed it well enough but have no interest in the game otherwise. I've never played, ran or owned any other editions. I prefer retroclone OSR products like Labyrinth Lord and Swords & Wizardry for "D&D flavoured" gaming.
 
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I finished it. I like 5E but I have to say that was an odd survey. The number of questions focused on either "I want to be center of attention kill monkey" or "I want to be center of attention story monkey" seemed odd. I'm almost wondering if they're is some internal higher up holding on to a position or belief that they had to create this survey to get proof they're wrong in order to work around them.
 
Bunch said:
I finished it. I like 5E but I have to say that was an odd survey. The number of questions focused on either "I want to be center of attention kill monkey" or "I want to be center of attention story monkey" seemed odd. I'm almost wondering if they're is some internal higher up holding on to a position or belief that they had to create this survey to get proof they're wrong in order to work around them.
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I got the feeling that they wanted some confirmation that D&D was not worth being made into a quasi-boardgame with miniatures again - possibly to show to some exec who thinks it's a good idea.
 
I got the feeling that I've been left far behind as a possible customer and every product they listed I had no interest in and didn't give a :crap: about. :clown: The questions about style of play all just seemed so utterly foreign to anything I'd enjoy it really made me wonder. :trigger:
 
Dumarest said:
I got the feeling that I've been left far behind as a possible customer and every product they listed I had no interest in and didn't give a :crap: about. :clown: The questions about style of play all just seemed so utterly foreign to anything I'd enjoy it really made me wonder. :trigger:
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That's a 10 minutes of polling you'll never get back.
 
3rik said:
I started filling in the survey twice and quit somewhere halfway twice... It's just too much of a hassle. And I usually enjoy filling in surveys and polls and such.

I also think this survey isn't for me. I've played 5E once and enjoyed it well enough but have no interest in the game otherwise, preferring retroclone OSR products like Labyrinth Lord and Swords & Wizardry.
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Same here, except I prefer stuff like Crimson Blades, Maze Rats and Knaves when it comes to OSR.
So you should totally finish it, too:smile:!

When did you last play 5e? More than 6 months ago, duh!
How often between your 5e sessions? tMore than a month (since I divide by the likelihood of playing it again).
Would you recommend 5e? No.
Why? OSR games do a much better job, that's why!

Just think of how thrilled they would be to read your responses:devil:! (And also, think that WotC totally deserve to know that there are gamers like you).
 
I remember back during the 3E, there was the standard argument that people that still played older editions did so for nostalgia. It's ironic now that that the product line for WotC's new edition is heavily nostalgia based, while the OSR is where most new things happen.
 
Voros said:
The covers for the PHB and DMG aren't my thing but I like a lot of the interior art and some of the other covers. But then I even like the much disparaged halfings in the PHB.
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I thought that 5E's art was definitely a big step up from the last two editions.
 
Remember, guys, Classic Traveller has the best art there is:tongue:! And amusingly enough, nobody has ever felt offended or marginalised by it.
 
Perhaps, along with surveying people’s relationship and perception of the D&D brand, they were gathering information about how people actually play the game. Maybe they’re coming out with a book or some other media with advice for players.

But the survey is clearly focused on D&d itself. If you have no interest in that game or brand, and are just answering the survey to be snarky and dismissive, you’re wasting everyone’s time, including your own.

Better to be constructive and actually submit information that could potentially make the game better. My hope is that they’re going in the right direction. Other companies, even smaller ones like some prima donna independents, should follow suit.

Im of the mind that you’re making a game for other people to play. If you’re just making it your own vanity project, and don’t give a fuck about your users/customers, then I think you’re an ass.
 
Necrozius said:
Perhaps, along with surveying people’s relationship and perception of the D&D brand, they were gathering information about how people actually play the game. Maybe they’re coming out with a book or some other media with advice for players.

But the survey is clearly focused on D&d itself. If you have no interest in that game or brand, and are just answering the survey to be snarky and dismissive, you’re wasting everyone’s time, including your own.
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I haven't gotten the impression anyone here has been filling it out to be snarky or dismissive. The questions on the survey seemed to indicate that WotC was clearly interested in hearing from people that weren't interested in 5E or their brand. Those are the people they are trying to win over.

Better to be constructive and actually submit information that could potentially make the game better. My hope is that they’re going in the right direction. Other companies, even smaller ones like some prima donna independents, should follow suit.

Im of the mind that you’re making a game for other people to play. If you’re just making it your own vanity project, and don’t give a fuck about your users/customers, then I think you’re an ass.
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I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, game designers should always listen to feedback, but I think it always needs to be taken with a grain of salt. After all, most of the design faults of 3E can be traced back by doing everything that people wanted, even the things that combined poorly. At the end of the day, designers need to balance conflicting feedback with creating a coherent, solid game.

I'm not sure who you are referring to as the "prima donna independents", but isn't the point of having small independents to allow idiosyncratic games that haven't been shaped for maximum appeal? Would Unknown Armies, Kult, or Over the Edge be better games if they had shaped by a 1000 question survey?

Obviously, Wizards of the Coast is in a different place, and they need to do things like this, and it is good that they are trying, but I don't want all games designed this way. While Kickstarter has been a boon to game companies, I have reservations about the way it breed entitlement in the design process. It's great that backers make an excellent and motivated playtest pool, and they should be utilized, but I don't like it when I see backers feeling that they can demand changes just because they paid up front. When I give my kickstarter money to a designer, I want a game designed by that guy, not the loudest, angriest voice in the Kickstarter comment section.

I agree with you that when designing a game, you need to be making one that people want to play, but it's cool to make games that only a small number number of people want to play as well.
 
Apparition said:
I guess work on D&D 6E has begun.

I took the survey. WotC isn't going to like my answers, but I took it. :devil:
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That's what I was thinking when I finished it. The answers I was giving are obviously NOT the type of answers they are wanting.

My three games were Call of Cthulhu, Savage Worlds, and OpenD6.

Repeatedly asking the same questions with different wording is a standard survey technique, but they were really hamfisted about it. Some of the other questions were really just odd.

The timing on this is interesting. They recently changed the rules for their organized play system, and are having a mini-revolt of sorts right now among the people that play in it. A number of game stores in my area are event talking about suspending the league play and going with something else.
 
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Baulderstone said:
I remember back during the 3E, there was the standard argument that people that still played older editions did so for nostalgia. It's ironic now that that the product line for WotC's new edition is heavily nostalgia based, while the OSR is where most new things happen.
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Well, I'm only just getting into the whole OSR thing and my only experience with D&D was one session of 5E, as a player. So no, it has nothing to do with nostalgia.
 
Necrozius said:
Better to be constructive and actually submit information that could potentially make the game better. My hope is that they’re going in the right direction. Other companies, even smaller ones like some prima donna independents, should follow suit.

Im of the mind that you’re making a game for other people to play. If you’re just making it your own vanity project, and don’t give a fuck about your users/customers, then I think you’re an ass.
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Sort of, but... you get to decide what your target audience is, and which criticisms are worth listening to and which aren't. A hyper-focussed product can do different things to one that is designed around broad appeal, and that's good, because that means more people can get games that they like.

Of course, that cuts both ways - you can't make something deeply idiosyncratic and still hope to hit the mass market - but most people know and understand this; they aren't aiming to be big, they're aiming to be big for some people, and that's an entirely different proposition.

Just because you're producing a product that looks kinda like D&D, doesn't mean you're aiming to be the next D&D.

Baulderstone said:
Obviously, Wizards of the Coast is in a different place, and they need to do things like this, and it is good that they are trying, but I don't want all games designed this way. While Kickstarter has been a boon to game companies, I have reservations about the way it breed entitlement in the design process. It's great that backers make an excellent and motivated playtest pool, and they should be utilized, but I don't like it when I see backers feeling that they can demand changes just because they paid up front. When I give my kickstarter money to a designer, I want a game designed by that guy, not the loudest, angriest voice in the Kickstarter comment section.
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I've seen plenty of games descend into that, and I agree; I'm not entirely sure internet fan culture has been a good thing, because happy customers tend to not speak out much. Preordering a book does not make you executive producer.
 
Ladybird said:
I've seen plenty of games descend into that, and I agree; I'm not entirely sure internet fan culture has been a good thing, because happy customers tend to not speak out much. Preordering a book does not make you executive producer.
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As someone that edits games, I think the Internet is a good thing on the whole. The ease it provides for playtesting is fantastic, and I think feedback is valuable. It's really on the people making games to filter the feedback in a useful manner. You are never going to make everyone happy. Just use the feedback to bring the game closer to what you want it to be.
 
Baulderstone said:
As someone that edits games, I think the Internet is a good thing on the whole. The ease it provides for playtesting is fantastic, and I think feedback is valuable. It's really on the people making games to filter the feedback in a useful manner. You are never going to make everyone happy. Just use the feedback to bring the game closer to what you want it to be.
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Having playtested a few games now, I fully agree that this is the only reasonable stance!
 
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