Gone and almost forgotten

[Acmegamer]

If you are talking about AiM, it comes in a box and is pretty cheap at retail (around $20).

Trying to figure out what AiM stands for. All I come up with in my mind is Aol Instant Messenger. You all need to stop this, making brain hurt from acronyms. Your setting off my Acronym PTSD caused my years of military/DoD service damn it!


Edit: Fucking acronyms. Right, Adventures in Middle Earth. Gah, my brain is turning to mush. Carry on, nothing to see here.

 

[PolarBlues]

Trying to figure out what AiM stands for. All I come up with in my mind is Aol Instant Messenger. You all need to stop this, making brain hurt from acronyms. Your setting off my Acronym PTSD caused my years of military/DoD service damn it!

 

[Voros]

Yeah in hindsight MERP was pretty good for Second Age Middle Earth
Ideal for running old MERP modules with Against The Darkmaster

Let's not go too far. The critical injuries tables in MERP are good for a laugh but have no business in an rpg based on LotR and as I recall the magic system is also a poor fit.

 

[Voros]

Trying to figure out what AiM stands for. All I come up with in my mind is Aol Instant Messenger. You all need to stop this, making brain hurt from acronyms. Your setting off my Acronym PTSD caused my years of military/DoD service damn it!


Edit: Fucking acronyms. Right, Adventures in Middle Earth. Gah, my brain is turning to mush. Carry on, nothing to see here.

View attachment 80963

They mean Alice is Missing, the storygame discussed a few posts earlier.

 

[Acmegamer]

They mean Alice is Missing, the storygame discussed a few posts earlier.

::Runs off screaming into the night::

 

[Tulpa Girl]

::Runs off screaming into the night::

So now it stands for Acmegamer is Missing...?

 

[Acmegamer]

So now it stands for Acmegamer is Missing...?

ROFLOL. I actually hurt myself a bit laughing. You! Damn surgeries.

 

[Lord Dynel]

Speaking to TOR - I don't think it would be considered "gone and almost forgotten" but would be more appropriate for a hypothetical thread called "niche games with loyal fandoms." I think TOR definitely falls into this, as does games like GURPS, Rolemaster (and especially HARP), or Castles & Crusades. These games are relatively small (compared to the big boys) and have never garnered a large fan base, but the fan base it does have is pretty loyal. That's just my opinion, though.

 

[Mankcam]

Let's not go too far. The critical injuries tables in MERP are good for a laugh but have no business in an rpg based on LotR and as I recall the magic system is also a poor fit.

Heh heh yes and no

Both MERP and Against The Darkmaster certainly are not emulating the tone of The Hobbit and The Lord Of The Rings
But the tone of The Histories of Middle Earth perhaps it is a bit closer to the mark, well, sort of.

I definately agree the MERP magic system was a completely poor fit for Middle Earth.
The divine magic class being described as an Animist is actually not entirely out of place, although MERP didn't know where to go with that other than use it as a replacement for D&D's Cleric Class - in a setting which has no hierarchical priesthood. Also having a Magician Class was entirely out of place and at odds with the lore as well. Nothing Tolkienesque here at all.

But the Critical Injuries are not that far off, given some of the dark tragedy and violent events described in the Histories of Middle Earth and whatnot.
Tolkien was quite bloodthirsty in detailing many of those events - an example is when Sauron captured Celebrimbor.
Sauron tortured Celebrimbor's family in front of him, cruelly killing them before finally bludgeoning Celebrimbror to death with his own mithril hammer. Then to add fuel to the fire, Sauron impaled Celebrimbor's body on a pike and used it as a banner for one of his armies.

The grim tone of Against The Dark Master and nature of gritty injuries - from MERP and Against The Darkmaster's Critical Injury tables - don't seem entirely out of place, given the situations Tolkien describes in the earlier eras of Middle Earth.

(Some of those old Critical Injury tables had a wry humour to them that were definately not in Tolkien's writings however, such as the ones that had entries like 'Try A Spatula', for instance, heh heh)

 

[Acmegamer]

Heh heh yes and no

MERP/Against The Darkmaster certainly no place in emulating the tone of The Hobbit and The Lord Of The Rings
But the tone of The Histories of Middle Earth perhaps it is a bit closer to the mark, well, sort of.

I definately agree the MERP magic system was a completely poor fit for Middle Earth.
The divine magic class being described as an Animist is actually not entirely out of place, although MERP didn't know where to go with that other than use it as a replacement for D&D's Cleric Class - in a setting which has no hierarchical priesthood. Also having a Magician Class was entirely out of place and at odds with the lore as well. Nothing Tolkienesque here at all.

But the Critical Injuries are not that far off, given some of the dark tragedy and violent events described in the Histories of Middle Earth and whatnot.
Tolkien was quite bloodthirsty in detailing many of those events - an example is when Sauron captured Celebrimbor.
Sauron tortured Celebrimbor's family in front of him, cruelly killing them before finally bludgeoning Celebrimbror to death with his own mithril hammer. Then to add fuel to the fire, Sauron impaled Celebrimbor's body on a pike and used it as a banner for one of his armies.

The grim tone of Against The Dark Master and nature of gritty injuries - from MERP and Against The Darkmaster's Critical Injury tables - don't seem entirely out of place, given the situations Tolkien describes in the earlier eras of Middle Earth.

(Some of those old Critical Injury tables had a wry humour to them that were definately not in Tolkien's writings however, such as the ones that had entries like 'Try A Spatula', for instance, heh heh)

Plus I prefered playing and running in the time period that ICE used for MERP. It was a perfect time in my opinion. Off the top of my memory, it was 1640 third age, after the plague. Loved it.

 

[Voros]

Heh heh yes and no

MERP/Against The Darkmaster certainly no place in emulating the tone of The Hobbit and The Lord Of The Rings
But the tone of The Histories of Middle Earth perhaps it is a bit closer to the mark, well, sort of.

I definately agree the MERP magic system was a completely poor fit for Middle Earth.
The divine magic class being described as an Animist is actually not entirely out of place, although MERP didn't know where to go with that other than use it as a replacement for D&D's Cleric Class - in a setting which has no hierarchical priesthood. Also having a Magician Class was entirely out of place and at odds with the lore as well. Nothing Tolkienesque here at all.

But the Critical Injuries are not that far off, given some of the dark tragedy and violent events described in the Histories of Middle Earth and whatnot.
Tolkien was quite bloodthirsty in detailing many of those events - an example is when Sauron captured Celebrimbor.
Sauron tortured Celebrimbor's family in front of him, cruelly killing them before finally bludgeoning Celebrimbror to death with his own mithril hammer. Then to add fuel to the fire, Sauron impaled Celebrimbor's body on a pike and used it as a banner for one of his armies.

The grim tone of Against The Dark Master and nature of gritty injuries - from MERP and Against The Darkmaster's Critical Injury tables - don't seem entirely out of place, given the situations Tolkien describes in the earlier eras of Middle Earth.

(Some of those old Critical Injury tables had a wry humour to them that were definately not in Tolkien's writings however, such as the ones that had entries like 'Try A Spatula', for instance, heh heh)

Yeah I'm familiar with the darker non-LotR writing from Tolkien but although violent and dark it isn't even close to the 80s horror comedy splatter of the MERP critical tables which are thoroughly silly. Like crossing Tolkien with Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

 

[Mankcam]

Yeah I'm familiar with the darker non-LotR writing from Tolkien but although violent and dark it isn't even close to the 80s horror comedy splatter of the MERP critical tables which are thoroughly silly. Like crossing Tolkien with Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Yeah some of those entries were pretty goofy at times, heh heh

(Against The Darkmaster doesn't have that black humour that ICE sprinkled throughout the Critical Tables - making them much more serious in tone)

 

[Lofgeornost]

Plus I prefered playing and running in the time period that ICE used for MERP. It was a perfect time in my opinion. Off the top of my memory, it was 1640 third age, after the plague. Loved it.

I think that's right, though a few of the entries in the series used a different date, or multiple dates, like the Riders of Rohan supplement. I agree, it was a good era for gaming--close enough to be similar to LotR, far enough away to give you a lot of leeway.

 

[David Johansen]

Let's not go too far. The critical injuries tables in MERP are good for a laugh but have no business in an rpg based on LotR and as I recall the magic system is also a poor fit.

"Pippin cut off several of their arms," good old Pippin." Nope nothing like that in LotR at all.

 

[Toadmaster]

MERP was a fun Middle Earth inspired RPG, but it was very much D&D in set in ME, not an emulation of LotR or The Hobbit.

Personally I think that made it more popular than a more focused RPG would have been, particularly at the time.

 

[arjunstc]

It wasn't great compared to his other efforts (IMO anyway). I have better tools for running games in Saxon England.

What do you use? I use/d The Hero's Journey 2nd Edition.

 

[Fenris-77]

What do you use? I use/d The Hero's Journey 2nd Edition.

Mythras has great resources for that period.

 

[TristramEvans]

Speaking to TOR - I don't think it would be considered "gone and almost forgotten" but would be more appropriate for a hypothetical thread called "niche games with loyal fandoms." I think TOR definitely falls into this, as does games like GURPS, Rolemaster (and especially HARP), or Castles & Crusades. These games are relatively small (compared to the big boys) and have never garnered a large fan base, but the fan base it does have is pretty loyal. That's just my opinion, though.

Besides D&D, who are the Big Boys these days? White Wolf seems to have completely fallen off my radar, Chaosium seems to be chugging along, but I would assume CoC and Pendragon both count as "niche games", (the latter being quite a bit more niche than the former). the majority of RPGs I get pointed to these days are Kickstarters by indy companies, FASA is dead, Mayfair is dead, West End Games...I don't know TBH. Basically everyone I thought of as The Big Boys seem to have shrivelled into echoes of their past glories.

 

[sharps54]

Besides D&D, who are the Big Boys these days? White Wolf seems to have completely fallen off my radar, Chaosium seems to be chugging along, but I would assume CoC and Pendragon both count as "niche games", (the latter being quite a bit more niche than the former). the majority of RPGs I get pointed to these days are Kickstarters by indy companies, FASA is dead, Mayfair is dead, West End Games...I don't know TBH. Basically everyone I thought of as The Big Boys seem to have shrivelled into echoes of their past glories.

I think CoC still counts as a big game. After that I’m honestly not sure. The Pathfinder fan base is split between 1E, 2E, and whatever they are calling the new edition with the OGL stripped out.

 

[Fenris-77]

Free League seems like the new big fella who isn't the actual big fella.

 

[lategamer]

Free League seems like the new big fella who isn't the actual big fella.

Modiphius...and Free League seem.....big-ish? But this is relative. For all I know their staffing is dwarfed by the average corner shop. Big for the industry perhaps?

 

[Fenris-77]

Modiphius...and Free League seem.....big-ish? But this is relative. For all I know their staffing is dwarfed by the average corner shop. Big for the industry perhaps?

Yeah, big for the industry in terms of everyone who isn't WotC. Necrotic Gnome is biggish as well I guess with both OSE and now Dolmenwood.

 

[Mankcam]

Beyond the Wall is kinda The Velvet Underground of the OSR: brilliant but overlooked at first, likely to become very influential and a classic eventually.

I love this description of Beyond The Wall, heh heh

 

[Fenris-77]

Savage Worlds still gets a lot of play. The number of conversion projects to bring various IPs to SW says a lot about the fan base.

 

[sharps54]

Savage Worlds still gets a lot of play. The number of conversion projects to bring various IPs to SW says a lot about the fan base.

I think the real question is what has had, and continues to have, staying power. On a larger scale we have 5E and CoC. B/X based OSRish games may fit in here as a group. On a smaller scale we have all the games with dedicated fan bases such as (in no particular order) Traveller, Palladium, Runequest, AD&D 1E, Savage Worlds, GURPS, and so on.

 

[Fenris-77]

Both PbtA and FitD continue to be used pretty regularly. That's a little different as isn't quite the same as the sustained interest in an actual specific rules set, as opposed to a design chassis.

I think that list of yours would need to be investigated to separate those games with actual significant continued play versus continued significant name recognition. "The OSR" usually encompasses both B/X and 1E so we can probably lump them together and I think they are very much a 'thing' that can be considered as such (actually, kind of the same way as PbtA and FitD - as broadly shared mechanical chassis and some design principles.)

 

[Mankcam]

In the increasingly less physical game shops I frequent, I mainly see WotC D&D 5E books which is half or more of the space devoted to rpgs.

In the 'Other RPGs' shelves I see Call of Cthulhu 7E, Cyberpunk Red, Star Trek Adventures, Actung Cthulhu 2E, Vaesen, The One Ring 2E (sometimes LOTR D&D 5E), Coriolis or Mutant Year Zero, Savage Worlds, Traveller, Vampire the Masquerade 5E, Star Wars Edge of Empire/Force & Destiny, sometimes the Genysis corebook; and occasionally the Cypher System corebook and Numenera Discovery. I did see Everyday Heroes core book as well, and the Avatar Legends core book.
Also see a few Evil Hat books digest books, such as Blades In The Dark, Monster of the Week, and occasionally copies of Fate Core (which have been sitting there for a while).

Never see any OSR titles on the shelves down here, and rarely see any supplements for the above titles, just the core books.

The vast majority of these shops tend to be taken up with trading card games, Warhammer 40 minis & terrain, comics and graphic novels, ornamental figurines and vast rows of bobble-heads (the later still amazes me how much space gets devoted to those things).

 

[sharps54]

Both PbtA and FitD continue to be used pretty regularly. That's a little different as isn't quite the same as the sustained interest in an actual specific rules set, as opposed to a design chassis.

I think that list of yours would need to be investigated to separate those games with actual significant continued play versus continued significant name recognition. "The OSR" usually encompasses both B/X and 1E so we can probably lump them together and I think they are very much a 'thing' that can be considered as such (actually, kind of the same way as PbtA and FitD - as broadly shared mechanical chassis and some design principles.)

Maybe, I think as the OSR continues to morph with ItO and Mork Borg you have less and less cross over with 1E but yeah, I think if we are making a list they can be lumped together.

 

[Fenris-77]

Maybe, I think as the OSR continues to morph with ItO and Mork Borg you have less and less cross over with 1E but yeah, I think if we are making a list they can be lumped together.

It's not specifically about 1E or B/X, those are just two of the three most common original games that het hacked about, with OD&D being the other. I think lumping them together makes sense.

 

[sharps54]

It's not specifically about 1E or B/X, those are just two of the three most common original games that het hacked about, with OD&D being the other. I think lumping them together makes sense.

Yeah. I tend to separate out 1E as it is the odd ball, more crunchy cousin of the OSR but agree the whole OSR is small enough that those kinds of distinctions don’t make sense when looking at TTRPGs in total

 

[Fenris-77]

Yeah. I tend to separate out 1E as it is the odd ball, more crunchy cousin of the OSR but agree the whole OSR is small enough that those kinds of distinctions don’t make sense when looking at TTRPGs in total

Well, a lot of folks who happily describe their endeavors as OSR and are playing and hacking 1E and that's good enough for me in this case.

 

[sharps54]

Well, a lot of folks who happily describe their endeavors as OSR and are playing and hacking 1E and that's good enough for me in this case.

I just can’t let you get the last word. Often the things called 1E hacks, like Hyperborea or OSE with the advanced books, are just basic D&D with things bolted onto them.

That said I agree with you that plenty of GMs and groups hack 1E to make it their own and comment in the OSR space but most of the modules I see published for 1E or OSRIC are for the rules as written version of the game.

 

[Lord Dynel]

Besides D&D, who are the Big Boys these days? White Wolf seems to have completely fallen off my radar, Chaosium seems to be chugging along, but I would assume CoC and Pendragon both count as "niche games", (the latter being quite a bit more niche than the former). the majority of RPGs I get pointed to these days are Kickstarters by indy companies, FASA is dead, Mayfair is dead, West End Games...I don't know TBH. Basically everyone I thought of as The Big Boys seem to have shrivelled into echoes of their past glories.

I agree with pretty much all the responses - D&D, Pathfinder, World of Darkness, Traveller, Warhammer, the Renegade Studios games, Avatar, Marvel Multiverse, Savage Worlds, Star Wars, to name many. These are games I pretty much see on the shelves at just about every game store I visit. I do not equate their significance to sales - Traveller, for example, is probably not a "big" seller but it is a game that has the reputation to never really ever be "forgotten."

 

[Fenris-77]

I just can’t let you get the last word. Often the things called 1E hacks, like Hyperborea or OSE with the advanced books, are just basic D&D with things bolted onto them.

That said I agree with you that plenty of GMs and groups hack 1E to make it their own and comment in the OSR space but most of the modules I see published for 1E or OSRIC are for the rules as written version of the game.

Word. Last.

 

[AsenRG]

Not trying to take a side, but I'd like to point out that Tolkien was emulating Northern sagas. As such, both gritty, and darkly humorous wounds and punishments, have their definite place in a Middle Earth game!

 

[Rift_Knight]

Fate was pretty popular at one point. Now not as much imo.

There was lots of buzz generated around the Dresden Files then between some rather questionable remarks made by the owner of the company on Twitter which is sure to generate more interest in any of their rpgs. As well as a focus to other games it seems to fallen of the radar.

Beyond the Supernatural two major missing sourcebooks and Mechenoids Space. With increase in Science Fiction shows on TV and with Kevin’s seemingly inability to focus on one project at a time both feel like the rpg equivalent of vapourware.

Given that the first rpg feels incomplete and the second you think they would want to capitalize on the increased interest in sci-FI but no let’s focus on Teenage Mutant Ninja Tutles and Rifts instead.

It seems to me that when something works for Kevin/Palladium it gets stuck in his head that it will always work. I personally don't think his "Megaversal" system is horrible (especially when it stick to just SDC ) just mediocre. Palladium dies have some brilliant settings IMHO. I was kind of hoping his new partner would turn around the company.

Fate was pretty popular at one point. Now not as much imo.

There was lots of buzz generated around the Dresden Files then between some rather questionable remarks made by the owner of the company on Twitter which is sure to generate more interest in any of their rpgs. As well as a focus to other games it seems to fallen of the radar.

Beyond the Supernatural two major missing sourcebooks and Mechenoids Space. With increase in Science Fiction shows on TV and with Kevin’s seemingly inability to focus on one project at a time both feel like the rpg equivalent of vapourware.

Given that the first rpg feels incomplete and the second you think they would want to capitalize on the increased interest in sci-FI but no let’s focus on Teenage Mutant Ninja Tutles and Rifts instead.

I feel like Kevin has shoveled a lot of things out the door to keep Palladium going. It seems like when something works for him once his mind gets on a track that it will work for him again and again and again, while he waits for the big licensing deal for a movie/computer game, etc. I was hoping his new business partner would start to turn things around more. I know the "Megaversal" system. I myself don't thinks it's horrible, just mediocre.

 

[sharps54]

It seems to me that when something works for Kevin/Palladium it gets stuck in his head that it will always work. I personally don't think his "Megaversal" system is horrible (especially when it stick to just SDC ) just mediocre. Palladium dies have some brilliant settings IMHO. I was kind of hoping his new partner would turn around the company.

I feel like Kevin has shoveled a lot of things out the door to keep Palladium going. It seems like when something works for him once his mind gets on a track that it will work for him again and again and again, while he waits for the big licensing deal for a movie/computer game, etc. I was hoping his new business partner would start to turn things around more. I know the "Megaversal" system. I myself don't thinks it's horrible, just mediocre.

You have every right to your wrong opinion
(It’s just a joke)

Actually Sean is making a difference but change takes time. There will be hints of the new, cleaned up base system in the TMNT books, things like “attacks per round” changed to “actions per round”. It will get there but their way, which is fine by me.

 

[Stumpydave]

It was the 90's, stop kvetching. You could play an angry vampire with a hockey bag full of automatic weapons and still be cool.

Waddya mean "Still be cool"? That's the coolest character concept I've heard in ages (only to be outdone by the kung-fu leatherclad female assassin angry vampire with a bag full of guns).

 

[Toadmaster]

You have every right to your wrong opinion
(It’s just a joke)

Actually Sean is making a difference but change takes time. There will be hints of the new, cleaned up base system in the TMNT books, things like “attacks per round” changed to “actions per round”. It will get there but their way, which is fine by me.

I've found KS a great example of needs an editor with a strong veto authority. Palladium has had some very creative settings / rule ideas but often suffers from poor execution.

 

[TheoryofGame]

And that one game: Apocalypse World. Sheesh. There's a segment of the hobby that cannot stop ranting and raving about how AW is the best of all things rpg and how Mistah Vincent Baker's gonna save all our souls one playbook at a time.

No one can deny the game made a significant splash, right? People are always talking about it, right?

But who's playing it? I mean anytime I see a list of "Most Popular Tabletop RPGs" guess what isn't on there anymore? Apocalypse World. I get the influence and creativity of it. How AW's impacted the hobby and all. But. How many 5e players are like "Hey guys for our next game we have to play Apocalypse World!" And everyone's like "Yaaaaaaay!!" How often is that really happening?