Pathfinder 2E Remaster (A.K.A. Pathfinder 2.5E)

[Lunar Ronin]

Paizo announced today that they are "remastering" the four core Pathfinder 2E rulebooks over the next fifteen months, removing all traces of Dungeons & Dragons and the OGL while incorporating a ton of errata and rule changes.

Paizo announced today that it is working on updating and re-issuing four Pathfinder core books over the course of a year. The Second Edition Remaster Project will see new editions of Pathfinder Player Core and Pathfinder GM Core, release in November 2023. The other two books will release in 2024, and include Pathfinder Monster Core in March and Pathfinder Player Core 2 in July.

These rulebooks will be backwards compatible with existing Pathfinder 2e products, and will, according to the press release, incorporate “comprehensive errata and rules updates and some of the best additions from later books into new, easier-to-access volumes with new presentations inspired by years of player feedback.”

The current 2e books will be fully replaced by the Remastered editions announced today. The Pathfinder Core Rulebook, Gamemastery Guide, Bestiary, and Advanced Player’s Guide will not be reprinted, so if you’re looking for a collector’s item, now might be the time to make sure you have those books earmarked.

 

[TJS]

Good for them I guess.

 

[Templar Stone]

Getting rid of ogl and DND hold overs. Also not a new edition or half edition , more like errata++ ( or a new coat of paint and adding a patio and BBQ pit) that's extensive enough to warrant new books but it's all backwards compatible with 2e. Removal of alignment, class overhauls for the problem children ( Witch, Alchemist, Oracle) and Change to Champion since alignment is going away, rule sprucing, breaking the core book (that's a players and GM guide) into smaller bits. Rules that came about in later books that were considered core getting moved to core. Like confirmed was Rogues getting martial weapon proficiency instead of the hold over of simple + a few select. Stuff like that

 

[thebigh]

I can't fault them for ditching the OGL. And if they use this opportunity to reorganise the books so they're not so much of a bewildering mess, including an actual functional index, I would give an enthusiastic thumbs-up with both hands.

 

[Templar Stone]

I can't fault them for ditching the OGL. And if they use this opportunity to reorganise the books so they're not so much of a bewildering mess, including an actual functional index, I would give an enthusiastic thumbs-up with both hands.

That was another thing they mentioned in the streams that they wanted to organize things in the style of how they are putting out books now

 

[Nobohom]

I just got done buying the rules as is!

$%&%)(&^^##!!

On a more serious note, it's a smart move as Hasbro made their intentions clear.
Their business model needs to grow up somewhat, this might be a good first step.

 

[Nobohom]

I will say, making the 'change' from calling something a 'ten' to 'zero' - which was its real value anyway - is blowing some players' minds.
Good thing Space Opera is out of print, or they could be criminally liable for blowing up readers minds!

 

[EmperorNorton]

Getting rid of ogl and DND hold overs. Also not a new edition or half edition , more like errata++ ( or a new coat of paint and adding a patio and BBQ pit) that's extensive enough to warrant new books but it's all backwards compatible with 2e. Removal of alignment, class overhauls for the problem children ( Witch, Alchemist, Oracle) and Change to Champion since alignment is going away, rule sprucing, breaking the core book (that's a players and GM guide) into smaller bits. Rules that came about in later books that were considered core getting moved to core. Like confirmed was Rogues getting martial weapon proficiency instead of the hold over of simple + a few select. Stuff like that

I'm a huge fan of all the ideas they have here. Especially doing some fixing up with the Witch. It has always been underwhelming, and not just talking about power level, it just feels disjointed as a class, like having multiple class feats that give unarmed melee attacks while being completely incapable in melee due to bad proficiencies, bad AC, and bad hp. Like, you can always not take them, but they are just cool thematic abilities that have nothing to actually back them up to make them even decent.

 

[Lunar Ronin]

Courtesy of Templar Stone is a link to a Google Doc with all of the announced changes.

 

[James Gillen]

That was another thing they mentioned in the streams that they wanted to organize things in the style of how they are putting out books now

That would be nice...

JG

 

[James Gillen]

Courtesy of Templar Stone is a link to a Google Doc with all of the announced changes.

"Ability Scores going away, they're going to become Ability Modifiers now."
Good. That's the way it's really been going since D20 started and it was that much more obvious in PF2 character generation.
"OGL monsters and problematic™ monsters being removed"
I assume the trademark is sarcasm.

JG

 

[Mankcam]

Measuring Core Abilities as +1, +2, +3, etc, is a great idea.
(Having separate Ability Scores and Ability Mods is just clumsy)
Paizo is playing catch up here, as Green Ronin already did this with their D20 OGL system, True20, way back in the late 2000s

 

[thebigh]

problematicᵀᴱᴹᴸ

FTFY

 

[Nobohom]

Measuring Core Abilities as +1, +2, +3, etc, is a great idea.
(Having separate Ability Scores and Ability Mods is just clumsy)
Paizo is playing catch up here, as Green Ronin already did this with their D20 OGL system, True20, way back in the late 2000s

When I first read the PF 2.0 rules, it dumbfounded me they did not already do this.
The RAW make it pretty clear the '10 as a base' nonsense is un-necessary, included like some sort of legacy code they were too lazy to write out with their new version.

 

[Raleel]

Ability scores going away is good. It gets rid of a legacy measure of IQ being 10x your int. It visually narrows the range a lot. A bunch of good things there.

this makes me want to do some insane hybrid of d100/Mythras and PF2e even more.

 

[EmperorNorton]

The only place where ability scores even mattered was raising a stat above 18 in PF2e as well. Like, you never had an odd ability score under that. And you can just do the "it takes two increases to increase to +5 and to +6" and be done with it.

 

[Templar Stone]

When I first read the PF 2.0 rules, it dumbfounded me they did not already do this.
The RAW make it pretty clear the '10 as a base' nonsense is un-necessary, included like some sort of legacy code they were too lazy to write out with their new version.

During the live streams today that was one of the things they mentioned that was a legacy decision, as they had considered removing it when they designing 2e but we're not sure how it would go over so it got left in like other things that are being removed now

 

[EmperorNorton]

I will say though, RIP to the people who maintain the PF2e Foundry VTT system, they are going to have a lot of work to do when this comes out.

 

[Mankcam]

This makes me want to do some insane hybrid of d100/Mythras and PF2e even more.

Of course it does, heh heh


Mythfinder
Golarion, with all the great Pathfinder high fantasy artwork, in a big glossy hardcover tome that Paizo is noted for - powered by Mythras (Imperative or Classic Fantasy)

Yep that would truly rock

 

[Raleel]

Of course it does, heh heh
View attachment 59667View attachment 59669
Mythfinder
Golarion, with all the great Pathfinder high fantasy artwork, in a big glossy hardcover tome that Paizo is noted for - powered by Mythras (Imperative or Classic Fantasy)

Yep that would truly rock

Less about Golarion and more taking the smart parts of each. It’d be that stripped down skill list we talked about back way early in the BRP wars thread with the heavy structure laid on it by pathfinder with cults/classes providing the professional skills and ancestries filling in for cultures. It’s really half baked in my head, but I can see enough similarities between them that mentally I’m trying to make them fit together like a child shoving blocks into holes.

 

[Jacob Rodgers]

Their presentation of what they're doing, why, and how is exactly what Wizards should have done nine months ago, but they seem capable of unforced errors almost every day (I bet the entire design studio wants to tell the c-suite 'stop helping!'). I'm not super happy with the ORC, but I hope that tweaks will be made, how to use it will be made clear, and deciding to offer a Pathfinder compatible version of Ashen Frontiers will end up being a smart idea in the end.

 

[Mankcam]

Less about Golarion and more taking the smart parts of each. It’d be that stripped down skill list we talked about back way early in the BRP wars thread with the heavy structure laid on it by pathfinder with cults/classes providing the professional skills and ancestries filling in for cultures. It’s really half baked in my head, but I can see enough similarities between them that mentally I’m trying to make them fit together like a child shoving blocks into holes.

 

[Ladybird]

Replacing alignment with a system that more accurately represents the character vs picking a cosmic sports team is always going to be a good change.

 

[Nobohom]

Replacing alignment with a system that more accurately represents the character vs picking a cosmic sports team is always going to be a good change.

I always thought your character’s moral or ethical core should have been solely the result of your choices in play, rather than said sports team. It was a big part of why I gave up playing D&D in the 1980s.

 

[thebigh]

I always thought your character’s moral or ethical core should have been solely the result of your choices in play, rather than said sports team.

I agree with this to a degree. Obviously on a meta level your characters morals have to fit with the other players. Also, in point-buy systems, when you take morality-based trait like Code of Honor you're trading some role-playing freedom for character points that let you buy more player agency in other areas. But on the whole I agree that picking, say, Neutral Good like it's your favourite sportsball team is simplistic, limiting, and a bit silly.

 

[EmperorNorton]

I've been tossing out alignment in D&D/D&Dadjacent games almost since I've been playing the game.

 

[Triumvir]

Done right, alignment is very useful - it can help define a setting, and reinforce player buy-in to the core conceits. It alerts players that there are fundamental, elementary supernatural forces, probably opposed to each other, that shape the world, and makes them define a position for their PCs in that framework. That goes a bit beyond supporting City or United. But as I say, only if done right.

 

[Raging Iron Thunder]

I always thought your character’s moral or ethical core should have been solely the result of your choices in play, rather than said sports team. It was a big part of why I gave up playing D&D in the 1980s.

I still remember the kid in grade 8 regaling me with stories of his insane LG Paladin who had a CE Wizard alter ego with his multiclass character circa 1997. I've mind caulked some since then, but it's definitely a weird legacy.

Ability scores going away is good. It gets rid of a legacy measure of IQ being 10x your int. It visually narrows the range a lot. A bunch of good things there.

this makes me want to do some insane hybrid of d100/Mythras and PF2e even more.

I remember in D&D or AD&D the numbers 1 to 18 actually meant something, but were for a mechanic no longer used by AD&D 2e.

 

[Korgoth]

I just got done buying the rules as is!

$%&%)(&^^##!!

On a more serious note, it's a smart move as Hasbro made their intentions clear.
Their business model needs to grow up somewhat, this might be a good first step.

I am always for new printings of books that incorporate errata and clarifications, I love a company that does that.

but

BUT! I also just spent hundreds of dollars on the 4 books that are soon to be re-placed so I am a miffed with Paizo for not announcing these books sooner. An informed customer is a happy customer.

 

[Necrozius]

Fuck ability scores. They only EVER used the modifiers anyway. This was ALWAYS confusing to explain to new players.

Good riddance. In fact, I'm removing ability scores from any D&D type game from now on.

 

[Bunch]

I am always for new printings of books that incorporate errata and clarifications, I love a company that does that.

but

BUT! I also just spent hundreds of dollars on the 4 books that are soon to be re-placed so I am a miffed with Paizo for not announcing these books sooner. An informed customer is a happy customer.

So Paizo has managed to pull its own 3.5 release fiasco?

 

[AsenRG]

I also just spent hundreds of dollars on the 4 books that are soon to be re-placed so I am a miffed with Paizo for not announcing these books sooner. An informed customer is a happy customer.

I'm afraid that seems to be the consensus among PF2 fans, AFAICT...

Of course it does, heh heh
View attachment 59667
View attachment 59669
Mythfinder
Golarion, with all the great Pathfinder high fantasy artwork, in a big glossy hardcover tome that Paizo is noted for - powered by Mythras (Imperative or Classic Fantasy)

Yep that would truly rock

Quick, someone do it! Or at least get ChatGPT to do it for us!

 

[EmperorNorton]

I am always for new printings of books that incorporate errata and clarifications, I love a company that does that.

but

BUT! I also just spent hundreds of dollars on the 4 books that are soon to be re-placed so I am a miffed with Paizo for not announcing these books sooner. An informed customer is a happy customer.

The problem is that no matter when they announced, there was always going to be somebody who had just bought the books. If they announced a month earlier, then it would have been someone else. Also, it isn't like all the rules aren't free online since PF2e allows anyone to post any rule info from any book they publish anywhere, and places like Archives of Nethys exist, so it isn't like you HAVE to buy new books, considering for the most part these sound like tweaks rather than overhaul.

The thing is, a lot of this was accelerated by WotC and Paizo wanting to remove anything that might be OGL that was left in the books. I think had that not happened, this would have taken a little while longer to emerge.

 

[EmperorNorton]

Hell, I HAVE most of the books and still hardly ever get them off the shelf because it is easier and faster to look things up on Nethys 99% of the time.

 

[Korgoth]

The problem is that no matter when they announced, there was always going to be somebody who had just bought the books. If they announced a month earlier, then it would have been someone else. Also, it isn't like all the rules aren't free online since PF2e allows anyone to post any rule info from any book they publish anywhere, and places like Archives of Nethys exist, so it isn't like you HAVE to buy new books, considering for the most part these sound like tweaks rather than overhaul.

The thing is, a lot of this was accelerated by WotC and Paizo wanting to remove anything that might be OGL that was left in the books. I think had that not happened, this would have taken a little while longer to emerge.

Stop putting Rational & Measured Perspective Chocolate in my FEELZE PEANUTBUTTER!

.

 

[Malckuss]

I'm excited about the announcement, but I bought my books when they first came out. I'm exceptionally excited about the Alchemist getting an overhaul.

 

[EmperorNorton]

I'm excited about the announcement, but I bought my books when they first came out. I'm exceptionally excited about the Alchemist getting an overhaul.

Alchemist has needed some work from the beginning. It's one of the few non-casters that doesn't get master prof in any kind of weapon. It always seemed silly that the best thing to do with all the alchemical bombs you make was hand them to someone else to throw.

 

[James Gillen]

Done right, alignment is very useful - it can help define a setting, and reinforce player buy-in to the core conceits. It alerts players that there are fundamental, elementary supernatural forces, probably opposed to each other, that shape the world, and makes them define a position for their PCs in that framework. That goes a bit beyond supporting City or United. But as I say, only if done right.

I'm Chaotic Arsenal!

JG

 

[Nobohom]

I'm Chaotic Arsenal!

JG

I am Totenham Evil.
Prepare to die.

*90 minutes of fighting later without a single death/point scored*

 

[JAMUMU]

I'm holding out for the Pathfinder 2.5L 4WD Special Errata Edition, with the bucket seats and go faster stripes.