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I could easily see that class adapted to a Prince as well. Instead of a Handmaiden they could have a sidekick, which could be a dopey but likeable friend or a mount/pet that can communicate with them (plenty of Disney tropes to pull from).
All CHA classes synergise well anyway, but provided the cohorts scale, this would potentially enable a brutal Paladin / Princess pet build. Ask your GM to let you fluff your heavy armour as a fairly extravagant gown - all those bones in the corsetry have got to have some protection value, right? - and not even Exalted would have anything on this.
 
I checked out the the pdf because the wife wants to play a Stone-Age princess from the Mountains of Dream in Carcosa. The Princess class has 3 variants, Classic, Faerie, and Warrior, pretty much covering all the traditional bases. It has a Majesty Point mechanic that the player spends to activate various spell like effects.
All CHA classes synergise well anyway, but provided the cohorts scale, this would potentially enable a brutal Paladin / Princess pet build. Ask your GM to let you fluff your heavy armour as a fairly extravagant gown - all those bones in the corsetry have got to have some protection value, right? - and not even Exalted would have anything on this.
Princess doesn't need to wear physical armor. She has Charismatic Armor, the equivalent of Unarmored Defense using CHA instead of CON. If nothing else, I am robbing this feature.
 
The more I think about it, the more I am digging Charismatic Armor as the perfect thing to make my wife's bikini heroine fightin' princess from a harsh and unforgiving world. Please see below for inspiring pic.

The goal is DEX and CHA based character who fights unarmored and hits like a freight train. Using the Rogue-Swashbuckler as a base, I'd replace "scoundrel" utility features with "noble" and social ones. Swap light armor proficiency for Charismatic Armor and bing-bang-boom done. I can't believe it took me this long to figure this out.

lOhGcGv.jpg


I wonder if it would be possible to condense the 1-20 levels in 5e into 10. 2 for each "tier" or proficiency level?

I sometimes feel that the power curve is... odd.
I feel like level 1-20 is presented out of sense of completeness and it is not necessary or even desirable to use those higher levels. I cap at 12 because that is roughly akin to the peak of heroic human potential- Conan, Merlin, John Carter, etc. Beyond that you start getting into superhero powers that require a measure of rules mastery to adequately challenge players.
 
The more I think about it, the more I am digging Charismatic Armor as the perfect thing to make my wife's bikini heroine fightin' princess from a harsh and unforgiving world. Please see below for inspiring pic.

The goal is DEX and CHA based character who fights unarmored and hits like a freight train. Using the Rogue-Swashbuckler as a base, I'd replace "scoundrel" utility features with "noble" and social ones. Swap light armor proficiency for Charismatic Armor and bing-bang-boom done. I can't believe it took me this long to figure this out.

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I feel like level 1-20 is presented out of sense of completeness and it is not necessary or even desirable to use those higher levels. I cap at 12 because that is roughly akin to the peak of heroic human potential- Conan, Merlin, John Carter, etc. Beyond that you start getting into superhero powers that require a measure of rules mastery to adequately challenge players.
I love that game. It's bad, but it's fun!
 
I love that game. It's bad, but it's fun!
If the guy who made Age of Barbarian would publish his lore/Writer's Bible I would flesh it out into a 5e setting. It has everything I want in a setting: loincloth barbarians, bikini heroines, dinosaurs, Lovecraftian monsters, ape men, savage wilderness, and lurid action-driven gameplay.
 
I wonder if it would be possible to condense the 1-20 levels in 5e into 10. 2 for each "tier" or proficiency level?

I sometimes feel that the power curve is... odd.

Should not be too hard, as the 5e chassis pretty transparent and robust. The tier pattern for 20 levels is 4,6,6,4 -- so just halve twenty levels to ten, then do same to that pattern: 2,3,3,2. After that you can play named level domain games or whatever. Also given each class gets like 4 ASIs (some like the fighter getting 7 ASIs) that cuts down compression and editing quite a bit. Nothing mandates stat boosts and feats to be tied to the level track so tight, if even used at all (e.g. the lack of ASIs could excuse higher than +2 magic gear).

What sort of classes, and their feature priorities, do you wish focus on? This would be a rather easy exercise for another 5e DIY topic. :smile: Could be fun.
 
I wonder if it would be possible to condense the 1-20 levels in 5e into 10. 2 for each "tier" or proficiency level?

I sometimes feel that the power curve is... odd.

I’ve considered this as well. You could even go further and reduce it all the way to 5 levels, and just simplify the Proficiency modifier Level +1. Then pack some cool, but substantial new trick into every level. Not sure if enough people would go for it, though, since people seem to like long progression ranges, where characters just keep advancing on and on (and I don’t blame them entirely, cuz that feeling of advancement is what drives us sometimes). But if +6 is as high as your core action modifiers can get, technically you don’t need 20 levels.

One thing I don’t like about 5e is how bloated character classes feel, with a bunch of tiny conditional benefits padding every level, almost to help justify the existence of 20 levels. Too much minor stuff to track; it adds to the bookkeeping.

But I do like how simplified the core mechanics are now: just pick your skills and they immediately improve as you level. Just set them and forget them.
 
One thing I don’t like about 5e is how bloated character classes feel, with a bunch of tiny conditional benefits padding every level, almost to help justify the existence of 20 levels. Too much minor stuff to track; it adds to the bookkeeping.

I agree, and if you look at what happens if you "merge" every two levels, you get a nice, solid package of abilities each time. No minor, incremental additions, just solid advances.

It would also "feel" better what with those "empty" levels where you get +1 spell slot but nothing else.
 
Should not be too hard, as the 5e chassis pretty transparent and robust. The tier pattern for 20 levels is 4,6,6,4 -- so just halve twenty levels to ten, then do same to that pattern: 2,3,3,2. After that you can play named level domain games or whatever. Also given each class gets like 4 ASIs (some like the fighter getting 7 ASIs) that cuts down compression and editing quite a bit. Nothing mandates stat boosts and feats to be tied to the level track so tight, if even used at all (e.g. the lack of ASIs could excuse higher than +2 magic gear).

What sort of classes, and their feature priorities, do you wish focus on? This would be a rather easy exercise for another 5e DIY topic. :smile: Could be fun.

I'm not sure yet... I was just feeling annoyed at the "feel" of leveling up the Wizard, Rogue and Bard (last three characters I've played). Maybe I'd start with those.
 
The more I think about it, the more I am digging Charismatic Armor as the perfect thing to make my wife's bikini heroine fightin' princess from a harsh and unforgiving world. Please see below for inspiring pic.

The goal is DEX and CHA based character who fights unarmored and hits like a freight train. Using the Rogue-Swashbuckler as a base, I'd replace "scoundrel" utility features with "noble" and social ones. Swap light armor proficiency for Charismatic Armor and bing-bang-boom done. I can't believe it took me this long to figure this out.
Yeah, it's a really good mechanic. I think it would work really well as a feat, because it's slightly stronger than an armour proficiency alone, but it's probably all close enough to not really matter much.
 
Regarding 5e compressed to 10 lvls: I forgot to add that Archetypes could be optional, that plucks out another 4+ levels of feature tracking. You could fold it back in as your campaign or setting needs, or leave it out entirely. With those 4+ levels and 4+ ASIs the goal to halve the level spread is expedited quite a bit. :thumbsup:

Then, since in older editions that middle spot was the happy fun golden zone of tranquility, you have lvl3 through lvl8 to ride the curl. And since the XP progression is on a 'hilly upslope' just like it was back in TSR, merely plucking out a few XP lvls within tiers according to the tier pattern should maintain that math curve expression. :shade::drink: (e.g. Reducing Tier Two from 6 levels to 3 means plucking out three XP lvls, so choose every other one to maintain the progression rate.)

Not too much DIY elbow grease, if I say so myself. :hehe:
 
Man so much saltiness on Twitter right now against 5e, I have no idea why these douchebags are popping up in my TL.

Can you imagine taking that much time out of your day on a regular basis to complain about a game you don't like? It is like RPGSite's twin sister.

Time to unfollow and mute.
 
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Man so much saltiness on Twitter right now against 5e, I have no idea why these douchebags are popping up in my TL.

Can you imagine taking that much time out of your day on a regular basis to complain about a game you don't like? It is like RPGSite's twin sister.

Time to unfollow and mute.
To be fair, WoTC has been making some odd decisions of late that have nothing to do with D&D then forcing them INTO D&D.
 
You have misunderstood what I'm referring to. I don't mean the US culture war nonsense you obsess over.

I mean bitching and moaning about 5e because it isn't 3e/4e or OSR cool kid posturing. 5e has been out for 6 years! Give it a rest already.

I get that 5e is the 800 pound gorilla of RPGs but if you don't like it go play something else.

I'm tired of adults acting like 16-year-old metalheads shit-talking Nickelback.

The truly cool don't compare and complain about the 'mainstream' as they are so different in intent and goals. Black Flag wasn't concerned with Poison. Monk wasn't grumbling about Peggy Lee. The Boredoms weren't slighting Stone Temple Pilots.
 
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I’m so glad that I deleted my Twitter account.

I’ve given up on a lot of performative RPG criticism lately. Especially from individuals who are direct competitors. “D&D is crap at handling X!... Unlike MY game which you can find here at this link. Don’t forget to hit Subscribe!”

The Pundit did that all the damn time.
 
@ Necrozius Necrozius Unfortunately I find it impossible to ignore culture war garbage on Twitter so I don't have an account either even though I'd like to follow a few favorite creators.

The truly cool don't compare and complain about the 'mainstream' as they are so different in intent and goals.
I couldn't agree more. Bagging on 5e is about as transgressive as trashing Walmart.
 
You have misunderstood what I'm referring to. I don't mean the US culture war nonsense you obsess over.

I mean bitching and moaning about 5e because it isn't 3e/4e or OSR cool kid posturing. 5e has been out for 6 years! Give it a rest already.

I get that 5e is the 800 pound gorilla of RPGs but if you don't like it go play something else.

I'm tired of adults acting like 16-year-old metalheads shit-talking Nickelback.

The truly cool don't compare and complain about the 'mainstream' as they are so different in intent and goals. Black Flag wasn't concerned with Poison. Monk wasn't grumbling about Peggy Lee. The Boredoms weren't slighting Stone Temple Pilots.
The larger and more omnipresent it gets, the more vocal its detractors will be and the more vocal supporters of alternate versions will be to try and cut through the 5e signal. Nature of the beast. Black Flag may not have been concerned with Poison, but Black Flag fans probably laughed at Poison every chance they could. If we had Twitter back then, who knows what the fandom would have gotten up to?

Have you seen authors doing this or just fans?
 
The only thing I care about is being told by anyone that I'm playing a GAME wrong. That's it. That's only thing that gets me hot under the collar. I don't care who says it.
 
New 5e book announced, more subclasses, magic spells and items, group patrons and rules options.

Very nice alternate cover but beyond new spells and magic items don't feel the need for more subclasses, etc so I'll probably give this a pass.



 

So, sounds like 5E.5:Skills & Powers is right around the corner.
 
So, sounds like 5E.5:Skills & Powers is right around the corner.
Doesn't sound that dramatic. It sounding like Wizards is adapting Adventure in Middle Earth backgrounds.

Backgrounds in AiME doesn't just determine some attributes, skills and abilities, it also allows the players access to a specific list of virtues (feats) for their background. For example Woodsmen of Mirkwood could gain a faithful hound as a companion as one of their virtues. But this is not a new mechanic layer into 5e, instead it is just a renamed existing mechanic, feats, with a different set of items for the list. An important prerequisite for many of these items is that you are from a specific background.

Of course it possible to go overboard but it doesn't sound like that radical of a change.

If I ever come out with a Majestic Fantasy for 5e, background, using feats like AiME virtues will be an important part of it.
 
So, sounds like 5E.5:Skills & Powers is right around the corner.
It does make me worry a bit that we'll end up with a bunch of characters that all share the same "unique" background which has the most powerful 3-4 features... I'll reserve judgement until I see the final version though.
 
I wonder if it would be possible to condense the 1-20 levels in 5e into 10. 2 for each "tier" or proficiency level?

I sometimes feel that the power curve is... odd.
I think you could easily enough just give 2 levels for every level. +2HD and whatever leveling benefits.

Using data from D&D beyond, WotC determined that 90% of games in the current edition end at level 10 or before. So you could just...just ignore levels 11-20. That's what D&D Hardcore Mode does.

Outside of HP inflation, and the 3rd level bump, D&D 5e doesn't have much of a power curve at all. A 8th level character is only 10% more likely to hit things than a 6th level character. A lot of people consider that a feature, because it makes it harder to accidentally wreck the balance of the game with homebrew and rulings.

I'm not a char-Op guy, but this information is pretty useful from a GM/game design perspective: This chart shows a min-maxed Sword and Board Fighter goes from 5.7 damage per round at level 1, to 27.6 Damage per round at level 20. On average doing ~1 more damage per round/per level.
 
Due to some technical issues, I'm having to put my current Savage Worlds game on hold (I managed to lose all my conversion notes that I had made. And all our online data for playing through Fantasy Grounds, and I'm like, fuuuuck), so I decided to do a high level 5e short campaign as a change of pace while I fix all that or decide possibly just to end that game.

Basic idea is that they were all heroes during a war 10 years prior. Except they lost the war. Evil won and the place is occupied by stereotypical fantasy evil. They all scattered and in the last 10 years for various reasons they didn't do anything. The players came up with reasons. The rogue's love died during the war so he left and is now ruling the underworld. The Paladin was fighting with the resistance, the Artificer got lost in the Feywild somehow (it has only been two weeks for them), the Sorcerer was in hiding, warforged forge cleric has spent the last ten years reforging the Paladins Holy Avenger that was shattered in the final battle, etc.

But something has happened and now they get all back together as high level badasses and finally try to set things right.

Should be fun.

(Honestly, I've never played high level 5e and was also curious how it would go.)
 
Apparently I'll be getting a copy to run for AL, and I'll see it for myself.
 
Question for 5e DMs out there:

Have you ever banned a character class from a campaign, either because you felt it was a bad fit with the setting or theme? Or even just because you hated that particular class?

I'm really starting to despise the Druid class (as a player in a party where there's a Druid, and as a DM who has to constantly adapt and shift to the Druid's shape-changing, weather-altering and Goodberrying).
 
Question for 5e DMs out there:

Have you ever banned a character class from a campaign, either because you felt it was a bad fit with the setting or theme? Or even just because you hated that particular class?

I'm really starting to despise the Druid class (as a player in a party where there's a Druid, and as a DM who has to constantly adapt and shift to the Druid's shape-changing, weather-altering and Goodberrying).
I haven't run 5E, but I have played it and run plenty of other D&D editions. I have no problem with setting rules on what classes are permissible. The Druid strikes me as one of the most reasonable classes to ban. It's an alternate version of another class, and its existence comes with setting assumptions. It's signature shtick of shapechanging doesn't say "druid" to me either. Like the D&D Barbarian, it fails to capture my vision of that archetype.

However, it is a harder thing to deal with mid-campaign, where you already have a player using the class. I could understand them getting upset. Still, it is worth talking to them, laying out the issues that the class is causing for you. I've found that while players can enjoy an exploitive build for a while, at some point even they tend to get sick of doing the same tricks over and over. Your player might surprise you by agreeing to make a change.
 
Oh no I wouldn’t dream of banning a class mid-campaign. However you are correct that I should probably talk with the player in question and sort that out.

Going forward, I really can see myself just outlawing that class though. I have disliked it since 3e.
 
Question for 5e DMs out there:

Have you ever banned a character class from a campaign, either because you felt it was a bad fit with the setting or theme? Or even just because you hated that particular class?
Yes, the Monk, it's that kid who only ever wants to play 'A Ninja', he has to have the super sword, the pajamas and the magic abilities. It doesn't matter if Arabia, India, Renaissance Italy or a super science fiction in an alternate galaxy. It just doesn't fit MOST D&D settings.

And yes, although I DO hate the class (I find it too narrow, similar to the Barbarian, the tribal warrior with anger management issues, although the Barb DOES have a slightly wider range of options) if it FITS the setting, I DO allow it. But it has to have an Asian style 'area', like a nation or something, but in reality, you can do the same (mostly) with a Fighter. With House Rules, of course.

I've considered banning the Bard, but that's a personal hatred thing based on a former player, who... Well, he was a drama queen, he was funny, but he tended to take over the game at the expense of everyone else, and he loved the Everquest Bard who was the Master of All Trades (Or rather, it was second best at EVERYTHING, which made it best for the game) and tried to make that in all D&D games. I haven't yet, because I realized that the BEST modern example of a Bard is from A Knight's Tale, the Chaucer character is EXACTLY what a Bard specializes.
 
Feel free to ban whatever classes and races that don't fit your setting or play style. A bit of trimming can give the game a more focused feel. D&D is a kitchen sink rules set, especially after you throw in all the extra books.

Yes, the Monk, it's that kid who only ever wants to play 'A Ninja', he has to have the super sword, the pajamas and the magic abilities. It doesn't matter if Arabia, India, Renaissance Italy or a super science fiction in an alternate galaxy. It just doesn't fit MOST D&D settings.

I haven't run into one in a while, but there are plenty of ninja-only players. They also tend to want to play loners in a group game, always wanting to sulk off on their own and ignore what's going on with the rest of the party. I don't mind the rare solo thing but a player who is constantly trying to split the DM's attention is a pain in the ass.
 
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I banned the Warlock. Partly because it’s at the heart of most abusable ‘builds’ partly becauseI don’t like the idea of a beginning character having some kind of pact and patron.
 
Ban the builds not the class. That's my two cents anyway. I don't much take to banning classes for aesthetic reasons. YMMV, of course.
 
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