Kickstarters Thread

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Gringnr said:
Is it just me being cynical, or does this seem destined to end with a C&D?
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Depends on how much traction it gets. Not sure if I should back at higher levels because c&d could come after funded. I think that's also why the project says the rules will always be free.
 
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CRKrueger said:
An alternate Shadowrun that isn’t a Catalyst shitshow.

I’ll buy that for a dollar.

No literally, it’s a dollar for the rules.
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I'm reducing my pledge to a dollar, I think...

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Wow... that escalated quickly...

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Am I missing some reason why this has escalated?

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Continuing update - it seems my last comment de-escalated the situation, but I still wonder about it....
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I have seen Courtney get into similar arguments on a Tenkar’s discord over the idea that it isn’t right that DrivethruRPG is a “monopoly” and they have too much power on how he can make a living in the RPG space. I have also heard interviews where he seems like a genuinely good guy so I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt if not a little wound or stressed.
 
chuckdee said:
I'm reducing my pledge to a dollar, I think...

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Wow... that escalated quickly...

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Am I missing some reason why this has escalated?

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Continuing update - it seems my last comment de-escalated the situation, but I still wonder about it....
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He may have been overly sensitive initially, but it looks like he responded and explained his position fairly well in response -- including apologizing for being too defensive.

I've owned several small businesses over the last four decades and understand how unsettling and distracting the threat of legal action against your company can be. It hits right int he pit of your stomach, saps your energy, and makes you want to give up.

I'm guessing that when Courtney read your questions, he had those kinds of negative emotional reactions that I described. So, his initial responses were probably based the fear and distress over the thought of legal action against his project.
 
To me it appeared that I asked two pretty simple questions that I'd seen bandied about- even in this thread, and I all I was really asking for was what I clarified in the end. As a contractor, I've had a few run ins, and have always found that no matter if they're really threatening legal action or just asking questions, escalating is never the right response, and can lead you into what you fear.

It's especially counter-productive when you're asking for people to give you funds with only limited information. I know there are people that run into these projects without taking such and then complain on the back end- I prefer to do my due diligence ahead of time, and then take the ride as it comes if choose to take that risk.

But point taken.
 
Although I'm not involved in this project, I'm super excited to back it, as it's the first time a Tricube Tales product has reached Kickstarter -- and the concept is both awesome and hilarious :smile:

R’lyehwatch RPG

"R’lyehwatch is a rules-light tabletop roleplaying game about a group of lifeguards and their friends who protect their local beach from the monsters trying to take over. It mashes up the campy melodrama of Baywatch with the cosmic horror of the Cthulhu Mythos. It’s played with one referee and one or more players, and all you need are a handful of six-sided dice and some coins, poker chips, or other tokens."

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Zadmar said:
Although I'm not involved in this project, I'm super excited to back it, as it's the first time a Tricube Tales product has reached Kickstarter -- and the concept is both awesome and hilarious :smile:

R’lyehwatch RPG

"R’lyehwatch is a rules-light tabletop roleplaying game about a group of lifeguards and their friends who protect their local beach from the monsters trying to take over. It mashes up the campy melodrama of Baywatch with the cosmic horror of the Cthulhu Mythos. It’s played with one referee and one or more players, and all you need are a handful of six-sided dice and some coins, poker chips, or other tokens."

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Nice. Did I once watch a thing called Baywatch Nights with werewolves, zombies, vampires and things?

My only problem with this game's set-up is that I can't see a possible scenario where the lifeguards would fail.
 
chuckdee said:
I'm staying in... I like the project and he gave away the manuscript as it is, and answered my question, and he landed the conversation well and did listen.
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Glad to hear it.

Could you or someone else please explain to me why some people might think Courtney's Sinless is a Shadowrun ripoff? I read the elevator pitch and didn't think "Oh man, this sounds just like that one cyberpunk game with elves, dragons and orcs." I feel like there is a lot of room for unique takes on a cyberpunk + fantasy mashup without copying existing work. That said, since I have never actually played Shadowrun I concede that I could totally be missing something obvious.
 
Brock Savage said:
Glad to hear it.

Could you or someone else please explain to me why some people might think Courtney's Sinless is a Shadowrun ripoff? I read the elevator pitch and didn't think "Oh man, this sounds just like that one cyberpunk game with elves, dragons and orcs." I feel like there is a lot of room for unique takes on a cyberpunk + fantasy mashup without copying existing work. That said, since I have never actually played Shadowrun I concede that I could totally be missing something obvious.
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Sinless? SIN are something that Shadowrun coined. Of course his own words also show the influences, i.e.

What about the classic archetypes?

They are all there. Riggers control fleets of drones and vehicles; deckers hack the digital grid; shamans summon spirits; mages fling spells; ronin fight and shoot; the face makes connections and talks his way out of trouble; amps have internalized magic into martial power; and you can pick any/all of these during character creation. Heritages allow characters to create new or traditional mythical figures (Redcaps, Elves, Trolls, etc.) or play a synthetic or uplifted animal.
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"Classic Archetypes?" Classic from what? And reading the system, it has a lot in common with Shadowrun.
 
chuckdee said:
Sinless? SIN are something that Shadowrun coined. Of course his own words also show the influences, i.e.
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Huh, never played Shadowrun but in Gibson's Sprawl series the SIN was a Single Identification Number. I assumed it was a reference to that.
chuckdee said:
"Classic Archetypes?" Classic from what? And reading the system, it has a lot in common with Shadowrun.
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I imagine it references classic cyberpunk archetypes like netrunner, fixer, street samurai, medic, etc.
 
Brock Savage said:
Glad to hear it.

Could you or someone else please explain to me why some people might think Courtney's Sinless is a Shadowrun ripoff? I read the elevator pitch and didn't think "Oh man, this sounds just like that one cyberpunk game with elves, dragons and orcs." I feel like there is a lot of room for unique takes on a cyberpunk + fantasy mashup without copying existing work. That said, since I have never actually played Shadowrun I concede that I could totally be missing something obvious.
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To me, it feels like the kickstarter page (especially its beginning) winks at me whispering "Shadowrun".
  • It's cyberpunk + fantasy, which Shadowrun did first, so any such RPG shall be compared to it.
  • The Sinless logo bears some resemblance to the Shadowrun logo.
  • It uses a "giant pools of d6s" which is the same thing Shadowrun is using.
  • It uses the term decker for hacker, which I believe comes from Shadowrun and I haven't seen in anywhere else yet.
  • I am no cyberpunk historian, but I think that SIN and being SINless comes from Mona Lise Overdrive, but in that novel SIN means Single Identification Number. Shadowrun calls it System Identification Number, and so does Sinless RPG.
  • As mentioned above the "classic archetypes", especially the Rigger points to Shadowrun for me.
Now do I think that Sinless RPG should not be created or that the author should be sued by Catalyst Game Labs? No, I certainly hope there is nothing unlawful about the things I wrote above and I also don't think it is immoral to base an RPG on Shadowrun.
But would I be surprised if Courtney (the author of the Sinless RPG) had received cease and desist letter from Catalyst Game Labs? Not really.
 
Hairless Bear said:
To me, it feels like the kickstarter page (especially its beginning) winks at me whispering "Shadowrun".
  • It's cyberpunk + fantasy, which Shadowrun did first, so any such RPG shall be compared to it.
  • The Sinless logo bears some resemblance to the Shadowrun logo.
  • It uses a "giant pools of d6s" which is the same thing Shadowrun is using.
  • It uses the term decker for hacker, which I believe comes from Shadowrun and I haven't seen in anywhere else yet.
  • I am no cyberpunk historian, but I think that SIN and being SINless comes from Mona Lise Overdrive, but in that novel SIN means Single Identification Number. Shadowrun calls it System Identification Number, and so does Sinless RPG.
  • As mentioned above the "classic archetypes", especially the Rigger points to Shadowrun for me.
Now do I think that Sinless RPG should not be created or that the author should be sued by Catalyst Game Labs? No, I certainly hope there is nothing unlawful about the things I wrote above and I also don't think it is immoral to base an RPG on Shadowrun.
But would I be surprised if Courtney (the author of the Sinless RPG) had received cease and desist letter from Catalyst Game Labs? Not really.
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I suspect any RPG company will be cautious throwing out cease and desist in the current environment.
 
Brock Savage said:
Huh, never played Shadowrun but in Gibson's Sprawl series the SIN was a Single Identification Number. I assumed it was a reference to that.

I imagine it references classic cyberpunk archetypes like netrunner, fixer, street samurai, medic, etc.
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Not when it uses the terms from Shadowrun instead of those, like Decker, Rigger, etc.
 
Apparition said:
Yep, I backed Subversion.
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I did also. And for any that are interested, here is his response to my question about how much is done:

It is 95% done.
What remains to do is: adding factions, adding a lineage, adding and arranging some lore, and formatting the book with its final layout and art. The current rules build is available in our first project update, and we're taking feedback on our discord, so we can make changes, fix errors, balance things, etc. up to the last minute.
But yes, initial writing is finished.
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And I also like that they didn't ignore the elephant in the room:

Is this just a reskinned Shadowrun?

Nope! Subversion has its own setting and mechanics. The only thing it shares is the genre.
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And yeah, I'd agree with that assessment.
 
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chuckdee said:
Yeah... I sort of like it, but it's not that good. Not even close.
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Fenris-77 said:
I'll tolerate it for IPs that I really like. That's about as positive as I get there.
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You will both love it, and make love to it. You will have a gaming ménage a trois and produce the richest gaming relationships of your lives.

or not. Who can predict these things?
 
Imaginos said:
You will both love it, and make love to it. You will have a gaming ménage a trois and produce the richest gaming relationships of your lives.

or not. Who can predict these things?
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You are a strange little man but you have interesting ideas. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
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