So not into D&D...sell me on something else!?

[Rasyr]

So what's the odds of having 3 DM more than the opponent's attack value?
Because if you do, it's open season, with merely 3% chance to be struck (though if you do, it's probably going to be bad).

if all things are equal, there is a 15% chance of hitting your foe. and a 3% chance of diong critical results (i.e. earning success levels).

but there are options on both sides of things that can adjust

 

[MichaelTee]

Well, Rolemaster and its decendants are the roll high percentile games. There's Against the Dark Master, HARP, and even a sf one I can't remember the name of.

Personally I think David’s thinking about a game called Galaxies in Shadow…

 

[David Johansen]

Not for fantasy. I've got the

Personally I think David’s thinking about a game called Galaxies in Shadow…

Not for fantasy, I've got The Arcane Confabulation and A Fantasy Game and Dark Passages for that. And of those, only Dark Passages manages the roll over stipulation but it fails on another count, it's a D&D retro-clone. Really, I probably suggest Rolemaster and Spacemaster more often than my own games because I do love them. I've meddled with a Spacemasterish game with pretty simple character creation and attack and critcal tables I wrote code to generate but it's never really quite done. Lately I'm thinking I should probably just focus on Galaxies In Shadow as it'd have a truck load of support for it if I'd done that instead of writing new rules. The only thing is that people mostly don't seem to like Galaxies In Shadow so I keep trying new things. Chronic Obsessive Game Designing should probably be in the DSM.

 

[AsenRG]

Chronic Obsessive Game Designing should probably be in the DSM.

...when they decide to add it, they're going to come to the Pub to oversee the sample cases!

 

[Rogerdee]

What about the old MRQ I or MRQ II, or Legend. Each occupations gets bonuses, but you can run a game without them - plus Legendary / Heroic abilities are essentially DnD class abilities.

Mutants and Masterminds, 2e or 3e.

Atlantis the Second Age, is for Omni and runs of life paths IIRC.

Modern Age, use the Age system, but instead of classes there are Specialisations.

 

[MichaelTee]

Lately I'm thinking I should probably just focus on Galaxies In Shadow as it'd have a truck load of support for it if I'd done that instead of writing new rules. The only thing is that people mostly don't seem to like Galaxies In Shadow so I keep trying new things.

I think GiS is well-done and interesting, it's a very good read, but I don't have any use for d100 rules. That's just me. I could see modifying it to 2d6 or maybe Fudge for myself.

 

[AsenRG]

What about the old MRQ I or MRQ II, or Legend.

The OP stated he is familiar with, but isn't looking for Mythras* because of the roll-under, and those are its predecessors and a side branch of the family...


*I find it baffling as well!

 

[gruagach]

...when they decide to add it, they're going to come to the Pub to oversee the sample cases!

I'm being attacked! Because I resemble that remark.

Me: "Why would I run this game rules as written? I've got like...seventeen ideas already of how to alter the mechanics to make it better!"

 

[AsenRG]

I'm being attacked! Because I resemble that remark.

Me: "Why would I run this game rules as written? I've got like...seventeen ideas already of how to alter the mechanics to make it better!"

So do I, and I never left myself off the sample cases...

 

[David Johansen]

I think GiS is well-done and interesting, it's a very good read, but I don't have any use for d100 rules. That's just me. I could see modifying it to 2d6 or maybe Fudge for myself.

Thanks for that. It's really not too hard to scale it down, most of the modifiers are in ten point increments. You'd only get 3 points per year for skills and would need to work in a +2 to tasks to allow for the higher centerpoint. On 1d10 or 2d6 it would be easy to go roll over if you wanted to. The big issue for most people is book keeping and math, too many attributes and skills (though without them the system would be less agile (no games about ninja frycooks on ceres for you!) and points costs would have to vary which is its own accounting nightmare or you'd have a bunch of traits which become their own rules bloat nightmare. I honestly had no idea how many people couldn't divide double digit numbers in their heads, or find pushing a cube root button on a calculator shockingly hard. Admittedly I did say, "damn the math and full speed ahead!" in places where I felt it was more elegant than the alternative. It's not like I'm asking people to calculate eliptical orbits and trajectories or anything like that. I've got a long rant on why range band systems are far more complex and confusing that fixed distances and velocities.

 

[Rasyr]

I'm being attacked! Because I resemble that remark.

Me: "Why would I run this game rules as written? I've got like...seventeen ideas already of how to alter the mechanics to make it better!"

Umm. Tweaking the rules is almost a requirement....

 

[AsenRG]

Umm. Tweaking the rules is almost a requirement....

Especially in some games!

 

[Rasyr]

Especially in some games!

In all games.

I am of the opinion that no game is perfect for every given situation or style of play. That rules should be flexible enough to allow for GMs to tweak them to suit their style of play without too much worry about breaking them. That is actually my goal when writing games, to allow something to be easily tweaked, but no easily broken (yes, anything can be made to break, but a small, casual change shoulf not do that).

 

[Kardinal Tabbe]

Let me see... Dice pools are all right then (ref Mini Six)? What about Reign? One Roll Engine and not a class or a level in sight.

There is also Sword Cronicle, the system formerly known as A Song of Fire and Ice.

And Black Void, if you like cthulhuoid planespace in your fantasy.

Another classless dice pool game would be Soulbound. The setting is cheesy as hell but the mechanics are top notch.

 

[AsenRG]

Another classless dice pool game would be Soulbound. The setting is cheesy as hell but the mechanics are top notch.

Care to tell us more?

 

[sharps54]

Just go Mini D6 and run your game.

We put way too much emphasis on rules, if you are a good GM and have a good premise with engaged players the rules won’t make that much of a difference. This time fretting over a system is better spent world building, adventure crafting or doing non RPG related activities.

 

[Rich H]

We put way too much emphasis on rules...

Definitely for this particular use case/thread!

I do like rules to support genre-emulation, specific settings, etc though - eg, The One Ring does Tolkien way better than other systems have done.

 

[sharps54]

Definitely for this particular use case/thread!

I do like rules to support genre-emulation, specific settings, etc though - eg, The One Ring does Tolkien way better than other systems have done.

I too prefer specific rules for specific genres but in the end the rules are often the least important component for a successful campaign.

 

[AsenRG]

Just go Mini D6 and run your game.

We put way too much emphasis on rules, if you are a good GM and have a good premise with engaged players the rules won’t make that much of a difference. This time fretting over a system is better spent world building, adventure crafting or doing non RPG related activities.

I too prefer specific rules for specific genres but in the end the rules are often the least important component for a successful campaign.

(I mean, you're right, but what would a forum look like if we all just agreed with each other?)

 

[Kage2020]

I feel that Hero does fantasy better, much easier to do custom magic systems.

Perhaps it might be another thread (or a DM), but could you expand this somewhat. I've never felt the need to pick up HERO because I started with GURPS. I will, however, admit that getting the magic system to work the way that I initially wanted was... tough. And, if I were to be honest about it, I think that I ended up just giving up on my initial concept to fit the pre-built GURPS options.

 

[AsenRG]

Perhaps it might be another thread (or a DM), but could you expand this somewhat. I've never felt the need to pick up HERO because I started with GURPS. I will, however, admit that getting the magic system to work the way that I initially wanted was... tough. And, if I were to be honest about it, I think that I ended up just giving up on my initial concept to fit the pre-built GURPS options.

Out of curiosity, how did you want it to work?


I've never had such an issue, but then my fantasy concept seldom included "magic".

 

[Savage Schemer]

(I mean, you're right, but what would a forum look like if we all just agreed with each other?)

 

[rumble]

I'm being attacked! Because I resemble that remark.

Me: "Why would I run this game rules as written? I've got like...seventeen ideas already of how to alter the mechanics to make it better!"

Hey Fenris-77

That "death of the author" conversation?

This is the murder of the author by a thousand cuts.

It's one of the reasons I can barely tolerate DnD any more. There is no DnD. Just each GMs individual flavor.

 

[Fenris-77]

Hey Fenris-77

That "death of the author" conversation?

This is the murder of the author by a thousand cuts.

It's one of the reasons I can barely tolerate DnD any more. There is no DnD. Just each GMs individual flavor.

Hmm. I disagree. TTRPGs have always been like this. I think it's probably true that more people play stuff bog standard than used to perhaps, but this doesn't really apply to 5E (which is purpose designed to be a toolbox) and certainly didn't apply to older editions of the game. I'm not quite sure which D&D you're harkening back to where this stability was generally the case. Maybe 4E was like that? IDK, I didn't care for 4E and wasn't playing RPGs or D&D much when it was the going thing.

RPGs aren't novels or even exactly 'books' either, at least the way a textbook or other nonfiction book is a book, and the notion of the death of the author as regards RPG texts is complicated to say the least, IMO anyway. I might be willing grant that RPG text anticipate the idea of the death of the author as least in terms of how they mostly seem to anticipate and even scaffold the idea that every reader will create their own specific interpretation or meaning (i.e. game). I don't know how well that notion would hold up under scrutiny, but it seems broadly descriptive.

 

[rumble]

I'm pretty much exhausted by all D&D at the moment, and all RPing, so it's probably a bad time. I was being flip, metaphorical, and obtusely subtle, as always. There are no emojis for all that nonsense.

As just pointed out, TTRPGs are a strange beast. Part technical manual (instructions), part escapism (fiction). Neither is a casual effort.

But when we talk about games as toolkits, I see a difference. Extensibility isn't the same as system tinkering.
System tinkering is why we have heartbreakers. Extensibility is why we have splatbooks. And yes, there are plenty of examples of both mashed together.

I've found it exhausting to move from table to table (or even to evolve over time) to a different set of table rules for the same game. I know, I know, this is what Adventure League is supposed to solve. It's exhausting for me to try to run a new system because I have to internalize the rules well enough to let the game flow as designed. That's one of the reasons why I've dropped back to playing much simpler systems.

Fortunately, for the games I've chosen to play, and the groups I choose to play with, we tend to stick to rules as written as closely as possible (ACAP) so we can try to achieve the author's intended ambience. That ACAP notation is there just to cover human fallibility--any rules ambiguity, inconsistency, or gaps. The simpler the game, the less risk there is that such elements exist.

 

[gruagach]

I will typically run or play a game at least once without changing somethin.

I will also read a good Ray Otus Lasers & Feelings hack that’s two pages of rules and think of three ways I’d like to change the rules.

And as far as I’m concerned, the author and the game designer can get bent.

Authorial or designer intent isn’t a thing I care about, at all. So yeah, guilty as charged.

I agree learning new rules sets / new games is a time suck, and it isn’t fun for a lotta people.

I’m glad this hobby has room for a nearly infinite ways to participate and have fun.

 

[Kardinal Tabbe]

Care to tell us more?

Sure. Age of Sigmar: Soulbound is a d6 dice pool game. You add your stat (1-4 for a beginning character) to your skill training (1-3) and count successes. Difficulty is expressed with two numbers, like 4:1, where the first number is the target number and the second number is how many successes you need.

So in many ways a pretty vanilla d6 pool game. But there are small flourishes that really makes it shine in play. There are just three stats (Body, Mind, Soul) and a pretty condensed skill list, and this makes you feel competent. There is a meta-currency called Mettle that renews every round that you can use to gain an extra action or double your skill dice. Difficulties in combat are decided by comparing pre-determined scores for melee, accuracy and defence. This ladder uses adjectives and goes from poor to extraordinary. If your melee or accuracy score is equal to the opponent's defence target number is 4, if you are one level higher it is 3, if you are two levels higher it is 2. If your score is one level lower your target is 5 and so on.

And there is a lot of cool spells, miracles, equipment and talents. But a lot of this is strongly tied to the setting.

 

[AsenRG]

Sure. Age of Sigmar: Soulbound is a d6 dice pool game. You add your stat (1-4 for a beginning character) to your skill training (1-3) and count successes. Difficulty is expressed with two numbers, like 4:1, where the first number is the target number and the second number is how many successes you need.

So in many ways a pretty vanilla d6 pool game. But there are small flourishes that really makes it shine in play. There are just three stats (Body, Mind, Soul) and a pretty condensed skill list, and this makes you feel competent. There is a meta-currency called Mettle that renews every round that you can use to gain an extra action or double your skill dice. Difficulties in combat are decided by comparing pre-determined scores for melee, accuracy and defence. This ladder uses adjectives and goes from poor to extraordinary. If your melee or accuracy score is equal to the opponent's defence target number is 4, if you are one level higher it is 3, if you are two levels higher it is 2. If your score is one level lower your target is 5 and so on.

And there is a lot of cool spells, miracles, equipment and talents. But a lot of this is strongly tied to the setting.

Sounds fine good indeed. So does that mean you can't hit someone 4 levels above you?

 

[Kardinal Tabbe]

Sounds fine good indeed. So does that mean you can't hit someone 4 levels above you?

The target number maxes out at 6 (and 2 when you are superior)

 

[AsenRG]

Cool. Still pretty decent (and I'd have been fine with either option, personally).

 

[Spartan]

The classic roll high fantasy is certainly Rolemaster, as others have stated. It does have class and level, but those are relatively easy to do away with, apparently:

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