Irrational Hatreds in RPGs

[Lychee of the Exchequer]

True enough. And I guess at least there's some escapism in "stick gears on it" victoriana, whereas we've been living in a cyberpunk hell for the last decade or two.

Is it Hell if (almost) no one notices OR act upon it* ?

...

Well, I'd better stop right here before becoming, you know, POLITICAL ;-)
[makes the Elder Sign to warn against unspeakable Evil]

* yes, I'm being over-dramatic. It's an RPG forum, after all.

 

[Tulpa Girl]

Idk, I think the clearly better system for calming down is PbtA.

That depends... is there a Move for 'chill the fu#k down' in PBtA?

 

[Savage Schemer]

Is it Hell if (almost) no one notices OR act upon it* ?

...

Well, I'd better stop right here before becoming, you know, POLITICAL ;-)
[makes the Elder Sign to warn against unspeakable Evil]

* yes, I'm being over-dramatic. It's an RPG forum, after all.

I wouldn't say nobody's acted upon it. What they've done is ignore the punk part altogether and given us an endless buffet of *punk genres.

 

[Gringnr]

I have a problem with the OSR. Not talking politics here, I just hate the WAY EVERYTHING has to be OSR-ified these days.

When I see "OSR", I am immediately turned off.

I've said this before, but when I was younger, I thought TSR should have adapted the D&D engine for all of their other games. Now that the OSR has done exactly that, I see that I was very, very wrong.

The idea of "class" and "level" in superhero games, for example, makes no sense to me. If my players will go for it, I will always ignore character advancement in supers (and some other) games as well. I don't like it.

I feel like D&D was designed to emulate a very specific genre or set of tropes, and porting it to other genres always feels like wearing someone else's ill-fitting clothes. It always feels like D&D draped in X to me.

When I was young, I was too lazy and comfortable with D&D to learn a new system. That has changed.

 

[Luca]

When I was young, I was too lazy and comfortable with D&D to learn a new system. That has changed.

Whereas for me the contrary is happening. I could (and did) read and understand the whole Hero System rulebook in two days in my 20s.
Nowadays, repurposing the B/X base is simply so efficient as to rule out most alternatives.

 

[TristramEvans]

When I see "OSR", I am immediately turned off

Well since it's synonymous with middle aged geeks, I'd be more worried about you if it turned you on

I've said this before, but when I was younger, I thought TSR should have adapted the D&D engine for all of their other games. Now that the OSR has done exactly that, I see that I was very, very wrong

Oh come now, 3rd edition made that mistake long before and waywayway worse than the OSR

I feel like D&D was designed to emulate a very specific genre or set of tropes, and porting it to other genres always feels like wearing someone else's ill-fitting clothes.

The only genre D&D emulates is D&D

 

[David Johansen]

It worked well enough for Buck Rogers for some reason.

 

[Baeraad]

Proletarian cred, comrade? Are you an infiltrator, perhaps?

NIET!

I have a problem with the OSR. Not talking politics here, I just hate the WAY EVERYTHING has to be OSR-ified these days.

When I see "OSR", I am immediately turned off.

I've said this before, but when I was younger, I thought TSR should have adapted the D&D engine for all of their other games. Now that the OSR has done exactly that, I see that I was very, very wrong.

The idea of "class" and "level" in superhero games, for example, makes no sense to me. If my players will go for it, I will always ignore character advancement in supers (and some other) games as well. I don't like it.

I feel like D&D was designed to emulate a very specific genre or set of tropes, and porting it to other genres always feels like wearing someone else's ill-fitting clothes. It always feels like D&D draped in X to me.

When I was young, I was too lazy and comfortable with D&D to learn a new system. That has changed.

Yeah. I recently tried to read Silent Legions. By all accounts a fine game, by a developer I have a lot of respect for. But I couldn't get past the section on Armour Class without my eye twitching so hard that I couldn't read. Just, just, just, just... NO. Just no. The fact that you can take that clunky mess that came shambling out of Gary Gygax's basement sometime in the mist-shrouded past and reskin it for any possible game doesn't mean that you should. We have come up with systems that are actually halfway decent since then!

And yes, this is definitely an irrational feeling, because to each their own and who am I to tell other people how to enjoy themselves and so on and so on and so forth, but... aaaaaaaarrrrrrgggghhh.

 

[CRKrueger]

NIET!



Yeah. I recently tried to read Silent Legions. By all accounts a fine game, by a developer I have a lot of respect for. But I couldn't get past the section on Armour Class without my eye twitching so hard that I couldn't read. Just, just, just, just... NO. Just no. The fact that you can take that clunky mess that came shambling out of Gary Gygax's basement sometime in the mist-shrouded past and reskin it for any possible game doesn't mean that you should. We have come up with systems that are actually halfway decent since then!

And yes, this is definitely an irrational feeling, because to each their own and who am I to tell other people how to enjoy themselves and so on and so on and so forth, but... aaaaaaaarrrrrrgggghhh.

At this point in my gaming history, Class/Level makes my teeth itch. Combine with Skills and Power/Feat/whatever Slots and my jaw starts clenching. Add in multi-classing and the headache starts setting in.

I have plenty of rational reasons for not liking such systems these days, but the irrational response is still there.

I like Crawford’s games though. He manages to keep things basic enough that there’s no real Build shenanigans possible.

 

[E-Rocker]

At this point in my gaming history, Class/Level makes my teeth itch. Combine with Skills and Power/Feat/whatever Slots and my jaw starts clenching. Add in multi-classing and the headache starts setting in.

I have plenty of rational reasons for not liking such systems these days, but the irrational response is still there.

What systems do you like these days?

 

[AsenRG]

NIET!

How do you plan to prove your innocence, Comrade? And just in case, we've prepared this confession for you to sign...

That depends... is there a Move for 'chill the fu#k down' in PBtA?

Well, you don't make Moves in PbtA, but if this happens, roll +Cool. On 7-9, take a +1 forward to your interactions with members of the forum. On 10+, pick a +1 forward not only with members of the forum, but with your family as well, provided you don't visit other fora before going home!

I have a problem with the OSR. Not talking politics here, I just hate the WAY EVERYTHING has to be OSR-ified these days.

When I see "OSR", I am immediately turned off.

I've said this before, but when I was younger, I thought TSR should have adapted the D&D engine for all of their other games. Now that the OSR has done exactly that, I see that I was very, very wrong.

When I was young(er), I kept repeating that D&D can't do every genre, and in fact would suck for most genres. Then I gave a chance to the OSR for a time.
Now I keep repeating that the OSR and the d20 wave have proven me wrong. But people still try to stick them round pegs in square holes!

 

[CRKrueger]

Well, you don't make Moves in PbtA

Oh for fuck’s sake.
There’s an irrational hatred, when people can’t talk about a game without repeating the designer’s mantra...especially when it’s horseshit.

 

[AsenRG]

Oh for fuck’s sake.
There’s an irrational hatred, when people can’t talk about a game without repeating the designer’s mantra...especially when it’s horseshit.

You didn't notice the emoticon that follows that statement, I see...

 

[CRKrueger]

What systems do you like these days?

Skill systems, without Point Buy and a ton of special Ads/Disads.

 

[CRKrueger]

You didn't notice the emoticon that follows that statement, I see...

I said it was Irrational.

 

[AsenRG]

I said it was Irrational.

So it extends to people that just ape the designer's mantra for fun on a forum ?

Also, many PbtA games would have been better if their developpers took the designer's mantra to heart . Who knows, maybe the guy that wrote the damn system had an idea about the ways to use it ?

 

[TristramEvans]

The only PbtA game I'm familiar with is Dungeon World. I didn't hate it (except the "only players roll" part, but we dropped that after the first session) - but my conclusion was basically that it was a set of training wheels for DMs.

 

[AsenRG]

The only PbtA game I'm familiar with is Dungeon World. I didn't hate it - but my conclusion was basically that it was a set of training wheels for DMs.

You can look at it in this way...

 

[Numidius]

I did a play test report here.

Thanks for sharing. I've read your detailed report and the following discussion.

the abstract Zones problem is still the same, in your opinion?

 

[TristramEvans]

I did a play test report here.

 

[Faylar]

Well since it's synonymous with middle aged geeks, I'd be more worried about you if it turned you on



Oh come now, 3rd edition made that mistake long before and waywayway worse than the OSR



The only genre D&D emulates is D&D

My wife is a middle aged geek. What are you suggesting here? :p

 

[TristramEvans]

My wife is a middle aged geek. What are you suggesting here? :p

I'm suggesting that an OSR swimsuit Issue might not be the best idea

Mentzer in a micro-bikini does not a pleasant mental image make

 

[Tulpa Girl]

Mentzer in a micro-bikini does not a pleasant mental image make

Speak for yourself.

 

[TristramEvans]

Speak for yourself.

ooh, if I wasn't at school right now and had photoshop handy, you'd be sorry....

 

[Tulpa Girl]

ooh, if I wasn't at school right now and had photoshop handy, you'd be sorry....

So, later tonight, then?

 

[TristramEvans]

So, later tonight, then?

see now I want to make that whole calendar...

and then mail it to the one person I think would appreciate it the most.

Jessica Price.

 

[Ladybird]

The only PbtA game I'm familiar with is Dungeon World. I didn't hate it (except the "only players roll" part, but we dropped that after the first session) - but my conclusion was basically that it was a set of training wheels for DMs.

I didn't think that was in any way secret, though. It's not subtext, it's text.

That said, when I ran Dungeon World, I certainly rolled plenty of dice - who rolls for damage, for example, doesn't mechanically matter, so I'm doing that for my NPC's thank you very much - but for stuff like NPC actions I think it empowers the GM; they don't have to interact with any rules, NPC's can just do what they need to do.

 

[Lessa]

I hate Dungeon World.

(I lie, but I think it misses part of what makes PbtA shine IMO)

 

[Tulpa Girl]

Well, you don't make Moves in PbtA

That'll teach me to make jokes about games I've never actually played.

 

[Ladybird]

That'll teach me to make jokes about games I've never actually played.

Hey, everyone rolls a 6- sometimes.

 

[TristramEvans]

I hate Dungeon World.

(I lie, but I think it misses part of what makes PbtA shine IMO)

which part is that^

 

[Necrozius]

I hate Dungeon World.

(I lie, but I think it misses part of what makes PbtA shine IMO)

It made re configure my approaches to DMing. In positive ways!

It made me despise games that hamper the DM with metacurrency.

If I want to let the players do cool shit on the fly or make the floor cave in suddenly then no system on Earth can stop me.

Edit: specifically, I more likely to improvise, decide on consequences based on individual context, do Yes/but and No/but to move things forward and to take away resources from the players in interesting ways.

One of my favorites: "your character fucked up their climb: either take a point of fatigue or lose one of your main weapons because it fell out"

 

[Faylar]

see now I want to make that whole calendar...

and then mail it to the one person I think would appreciate it the most.

Jessica Price.

If you don't... I will

 

[TJS]

I hate Dungeon World.

(I lie, but I think it misses part of what makes PbtA shine IMO)

I've developed an irrational hatred of 'fronts'.

Everytime people tell me that Dungeon World is innovative in it's use of 'fronts' I want to scream.

Some of us have been doing it for more than 20 years - and we didn't make a fancy name for it because we thought it was a friggin obvious thing to do.

 

[Lessa]

which part is that^

The intra-party dynamics.

From straight PvP to trust & betrayal to friendship & camaraderie to "I hate you but I love you" antics, I think the really good PbtA bring forth different party dynamics in cool ways. The more "trad" ones (like Dungeon World) tend to water-down this feature, or miss it altogether.

 

[spittingimage]

You'd better run a diagnostic!

I'm in IT.

I also hate that their starship runs off one centralised computer and that they test upgrades by installing them on the equipment they need to live while hurtling through space at ludicrous speed!

 

[Stan]

From straight PvP to trust & betrayal to friendship & camaraderie to "I hate you but I love you" antics, I think the really good PbtA bring forth different party dynamics in cool ways. The more "trad" ones (like Dungeon World) tend to water-down this feature, or miss it altogether.

There are now dozens of pbta games and I don't want to go through them all. Which ones do you think do this well?

 

[TristramEvans]

So, later tonight, then?

​

 

[Gabriel]

I'm in IT.

I also hate that their starship runs off one centralised computer and that they test upgrades by installing them on the equipment they need to live while hurtling through space at ludicrous speed!

Pfft.

REAL developers test in production.

(True story, for the first 5 years of my old job, we had no test environment. Everything was developed in and tested live in production. My boss did not approve of creating duplicate objects or saving any old versions of code. You changed it, and it had better work because there was no going back and no safety net.)

 

[Endless Flight]