Who is the most influential living game designer?

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Simlasa said:
By saying it's 'deceptively simple' do you mean that it's NOT as simple as it first appears? It has hidden complexities?
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Yes, although I meant ORE not OSR! (Edited). It requires quite a lot of quick judgement and interpretation on the part of the GM, which really only comes with system familiarity.
 
ffilz said:
I'm leaning pretty heavily towards Tweet.
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To add a point in Tweet's favor, consider that Ars Magica, which he co-designed with Rein-Hagan, had many of the elements that made Vampire a huge hit. Houses were an archetype that not only gave you your powerset, they also placed you in a faction in the setting. It presented you with enemies that existed within the same organization as you, encouraging PCs to engage in more complex plots than just killing them. All the adventure design advice was almost verbatim from Ars Magica.

I have no idea who was responsible for what exactly, but I imagine Tweet played some role in putting the formula together, especially as he was the author of the Houses of Hermes book.
Mangoplum said:
I am probably not fully aware of how popular PBtA stuff is. I mean, I see a LOT of folks talking about the games online, but in real life I have had near zero interaction with the system or people who have played it (though the guys I game with play a fairly wide variety of games).
Years ago our DCC group attempted to play Night Witches, bounced off of it hard, and that was it.
Anyway, I do see some difference between popularity and influence. Something might be popular, but not reverberate further then its core audience while something obscure might find resonance with a smaller core of enthusiastic devotees who amplify its effects through many other areas. Its that resonance that I think sets something apart from merely popularity.
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When looking at popularity vs. influence, a game doesn't need to be popular to be influential if its small audience contains a lot of game designers.

Mangoplum said:
I've never played ORE. I thought it sounded pretty great when I first read it's dice mechanism, and the settings implementing it were cool. Later on, doubt began to creep in and I saw a string of critiques of the system's quirks, taking a bit of shiny off its shiny new thing.
I'd still like to try it, just to see it run.
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One of the things that hurt ORE was that Godlike wasn't the ideal match of setting and system in my opinion. It also has a superpower design system on top of it that a lot of people find confusing. I think it gave the system an early reputation it had to fight against.

Like JAMUMU JAMUMU I prefer Reign. It's solely written and designed by Greg Stolze, and it uses the system much more effectively. It's the version of the system I point people to first.
 
Steve Jackson, Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Marc Miller, Mark Rein-Hagen, Andrew Greenburg, Stephen Wieck, Tracey Hickman, Margaret Weis, Mike Pondsmith and Lisa Stevens all deserve an honorable mention at the absolute least. Some of them deserve even more recognition, especially Wieck, Miller, Cook, Tweet, Jackson, and the duo of Hickman & Weis.

Dishonorable mentions to Justin Achilli, Ron Edwards, Olivia Hill, Jennifer Aniston, Satyros Brucato, Varg Vikernes, and Zak Sabbath. Not all influential designers are good influences.

IMHO, Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford are more of a mixed bag than anything else, but the sheer popularity and success of D&D 5th Edition cannot be ignored and deserves to receive the credit it is due.
 
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cant believe no one's mentioned Jeff Grubb.

Worked on the 1983 Monster Manual, co-authored Unearthed Arcana and wrote the Manual of the Planes, co-created The Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Planescape, Al-Qadim, and Spelljammer campaign settings, and worked on Boot Hill, D20 Modern, Star Wars D20, Castle Falkenstein, and Sovereign Stone

and of course was designer on MSH (FASERIP}, which directly influenced - Ascension, BASH, Crusaders, DC Heroes (which would go on to form some of the DNA of the Storyteller System), Doctor Who: AiTaS, 4C, Fate, Fudge, G-Core, Icons, Marvel Adventure Game, Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, Mutants & Masterminds, Theatrix (which directly influenced the creation of Threefold Theory, precursor to The Forge), The Window, etc.
 
Forgive me for not knowing why this is wrong... but would Mike Mearls count? It's not like he designed D&D but he worked on 4e, which led to some significant fallout, and then worked on 5e which brought the crown back to the tower... then a lot of folks shuffled towards its light to make stuff for it or convert existing things to use it.
I mean, it seems like he's had some resonance... for good or ill... and if we're going off of popularity and effecting what other folks are making...
 
Simlasa said:
Forgive me for not knowing why this is wrong... but would Mike Mearls count? It's not like he designed D&D but he worked on 4e, which led to some significant fallout, and then worked on 5e which brought the crown back to the tower... then a lot of folks shuffled towards its light to make stuff for it or convert existing things to use it.
I mean, it seems like he's had some resonance... for good or ill... and if we're going off of popularity and effecting what other folks are making...
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what influence would his designs have had on any other game? 5th ed is popular, but i don't see it as even a little bit influential.
 
TristramEvans said:
what influence would his designs have had on any other game? 5th ed is popular, but i don't see it as even a little bit influential.
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Like I said, I don't know why it's wrong to mention Mearls.
What are we gauging 'influence' by?
Is it influential that other designers are motivated to create stuff for it? Even if just for hope of profit rather than loving the system itself.
Fenris thinks PBtA's popularity is an important component, based on how much stuff people have made based on it... how much stuff he owns related to it and has made for it.
 
Simlasa said:
Like I said, I don't know why it's wrong to mention Mearls.
What are we gauging 'influence' by?
Is it influential that other designers are motivated to create stuff for it? Even if just for hope of profit rather than loving the system itself.
Fenris thinks PBtA's popularity is an important component, based on how much stuff people have made based on it... how much stuff he owns related to it and has made for it.
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i don't personally see popularity as analogous to influence, at least from a game design perspective but sure, there are other kinds of influence.
 
I think an argument could be made for Jason Morningstar also. And if we're including Steve Jackson, we'd also have to include Sean Punch- the line editor since forever and one of the driving forces behind GURPS direction.
 
TristramEvans said:
cant believe no one's mentioned Jeff Grubb.
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Silverlion said:
As a favorite who has had an impact, Jeff Grubb, for Marvel Superheroes. It still has an immense number of fans who think of it fondly, and many who still play. More so I find than some other supers games. He still isn't the MOST impactful but it is measurable.
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Fear not, Silverlion Silverlion has you covered.
 
JAMUMU said:
And historically accurate in that all us Scotsfolk worship "The Hawk". I'm sure you've noticed that since you moved up north. All us Scotsfolk, Hawking all over the place. Love a good Hawk, we do.
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That sounds like a reference to Borat. In the first Borat film, Sasha Baron Cohen's Borat declares that Kazakhan 'follows the Hawk' - apparently in SBC universe Islam doesn't exist. Probably to minimise the risk of fatwas.
 
hawkeyefan said:
That’s a big part of his influence. The two significant recent movements in the hobby were largely a response to the kind of gaming Hickman helped make popular. And the mainstream continues to largely follow his model to this day.

Everything that’s come out of the OSR can be considered a response to Hickman. Everything that came from or was influenced by the Forge was a response to Hickman (and Rein-Hagen).

Considering the amount of RPG output he actually had, his influence is monstrous.
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Great post! Concise insightful & accurate. :shade:
 
Baulderstone said:
To add a point in Tweet's favor, consider that Ars Magica, which he co-designed with Rein-Hagan, had many of the elements that made Vampire a huge hit. Houses were an archetype that not only gave you your powerset, they also placed you in a faction in the setting. It presented you with enemies that existed within the same organization as you, encouraging PCs to engage in more complex plots than just killing them. All the adventure design advice was almost verbatim from Ars Magica.

I have no idea who was responsible for what exactly, but I imagine Tweet played some role in putting the formula together, especially as he was the author of the Houses of Hermes book.
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True, it is always difficult to quantify the individual contributions in creative collaborations (see the various Lee-Kirby/ Gygax-Arneson discussions). Even the people invovled in the collaborations can end up having very different views about their own roles.

But looking a Tweets own work, I remember a mini-game he wrote for Dungeon magazine called Omega World. At the end of the day, it is just a mini-game based on D&D3.0, but I was very impressed by the clear sense of direction in the rules. Even now Gamma World fans often cite it as the best version of the game.
 
Simlasa said:
Like I said, I don't know why it's wrong to mention Mearls.
What are we gauging 'influence' by?
Is it influential that other designers are motivated to create stuff for it? Even if just for hope of profit rather than loving the system itself.
Fenris thinks PBtA's popularity is an important component, based on how much stuff people have made based on it... how much stuff he owns related to it and has made for it.
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I'm trying to think what influence Mearls has had as a game designer. It's a bit tricky as he seems very self effacing and gives Crawford what seems undeserved credit as the creative genius behind 5e. I was going back over old 5e Sage Advice and I noticed that when Mearls & Crawford were together they gave decent advice, where Crawford on his own is consistently abysmal, giving the stupidest possible dictionary-based literalist definitions of words to create something clearly against the original design intent.

5e D&D has been influential on some other games. Free League's BRP-based Dragonbane shows a lot of 5e influence, about as much as from Free League's own Year Zero Engine. But its intent to be 'all things to all men/furries/otherkin' means 5e lacks anything approaching a singular design vision. They tried that with 4e D&D and it failed horribly. The main influence D&D continues to have outside of D&D is via the OGL, and that predates Mearls et al - Mearls got his start writing OGL/d20 stuff for 3e.
 
Dyrnwyn said:
Am I going to be the first person to mention Kevin Siembieda? Alright, then.
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I was going to mention him before, just for the humor value, but in reality, didn't he like invented the fucking printing press or something?

Wait, no. It was already invented a bit before his time...
 
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Simlasa said:
What are we gauging 'influence' by?
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Seems pretty optimistic to assume we're all gauging it in the same way, tbh ;). Personally, I'd describe influential as meaning that the design of games outside the games that designer worked on was changed as a result. The highest influence being measured not just in the number of games but also the number of players.

So, by that criteria, Mearls has relatively little influence because although 5e has - by far - the most players, it hasn't been all that influential on games outside 5e bar advantage/disadvantage. Vincent Baker has influenced a lot of games but those games are still relatively niche (I think?), whereas Dancey influenced a huge number of games (basically the entire d20 sphere, and a healthy chunk of OSR) and a huge number of players.

TristramEvans said:
what influence would his designs have had on any other game? 5th ed is popular, but i don't see it as even a little bit influential.
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Advantage/Disadvantage has been a pretty influential mechanic I would say.
 
S'mon said:
I'm trying to think what influence Mearls has had as a game designer.
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I’m probably not the one to be in this thread as I don’t really think about game designers but there is a solid portion of iron heroes which is similar later versions of d&d (post 3e).
 
TristramEvans said:
i don't personally see popularity as analogous to influence, at least from a game design perspective but sure, there are other kinds of influence.
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Yeah, I don't really equate the two either. But it seemed like if I did, just in terms of numbers, Mearls might make it onto the list.
 
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Moracai said:
I was going to mention him before, just for the humor value, but in reality, didn't he like invented the fucking printing press or something?

Wait, no. It was already invented a bit before his time...
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Like I said upthread to Baulderstone, I was 100% serious.
 
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Dr Jack said:
Advantage/Disadvantage has been a pretty influential mechanic I would say.
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This certainly has been very influential, however just pointing out that it wasn't the first time I saw this mechanic.
I'm sure it existed in Mechwarrior RPG, and likely some other lesser known rpgs.
But D&D 5E kinda made it famous
 
Dyrnwyn said:
Like I said upthread to Baulderstone, I was 100% serious.
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Yeah, I think his influence has waned but in the 80s/90s his role in a) shifting D&D players to try a new game and b) managing to get licenses that perfectly suited his audience was actually pretty staggering. Even now, while most people may not play Rifts they've likely heard of it.
 
Mankcam said:
I'm sure it existed in Mechwarrior RPG, and likely some other lesser known rpgs.
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Thanks, I didn't know that. How similar is the mechanic in Mechwarrior RPG? Like, completely the same (as in: roll an extra die, take the higher/lower) or a similar concept with slightly different implementation?
 
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I'm gonna say MWM cause I'm part of the trav uma; and other are going to say the designer that has influenced them the most, it's all personal.
 
Mankcam said:
This certainly has been very influential, however just pointing out that it wasn't the first time I saw this mechanic.
I'm sure it existed in Mechwarrior RPG, and likely some other lesser known rpgs.
But D&D 5E kinda made it famous
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I firsat encountered the concept in Barbarians of Lemuria. I'm not sure I'd count that as a lesser known rpg, unless buy comparison to D&D5e.
 
Raleel said:
I’m probably not the one to be in this thread as I don’t really think about game designers but there is a solid portion of iron heroes which is similar later versions of d&d (post 3e).
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Yes, people are questioning the influence of Mearls work on D&D 4E and 5E, but he had those jobs because he was a hugely influential designer on 3rd party products during the 3E era.
Mankcam said:
This certainly has been very influential, however just pointing out that it wasn't the first time I saw this mechanic.
I'm sure it existed in Mechwarrior RPG, and likely some other lesser known rpgs.
But D&D 5E kinda made it famous
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The Network System from BedrockBrendan BedrockBrendan is older than D&D Advantage but is very similar mechanically. It's basically a system that uses a the same premise as the core of the game.

It's a D10 dice pool system where you roll a number of d10s equal to your skill level and keep the highest. If you don't have a skill, you roll 2 d10s and keep the lowest. To break it down..
Skill Level
UnskilledRoll 2 dice and keep the lowest
Level 1Roll 1 die
Level 2Roll 2 dice, keep the highest
Level 3Roll 3 dice, keep the highest
Level 4Roll 4 dice, keep the highest

You can modify the roll by adding or taking away dice.

The probabilities are really slick as well.
1683126478508.png
 
A Fiery Flying Roll said:
Yeah, I think his influence has waned but in the 80s/90s his role in a) shifting D&D players to try a new game and b) managing to get licenses that perfectly suited his audience was actually pretty staggering. Even now, while most people may not play Rifts they've likely heard of it.
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As a 90s pre-teen and teenager, Palladium had a huge influence on my peer group. Like you said, it was all about that license/audience match, plus the lower price points helped too. I knew a number of people who had little interest in D&D (fantasy was kind of seen as uncool at the time, even among the geeks I knew), but were all about TMNT, Robotech, and Rifts.
 
I hesitate to say it but ... Nathan Dowdell? FFG Warhammer 40k and 2d20 gets him a nod?
 
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From a British point of view Steve Jackson/Ian Livingstone (and another guy who got out) who started up Games Workshop had a big influence on RPGs (though as publishers/importers), getting D&D into the UK and branching out into all sorts of other games before miniatures and 40k took over. Obviously the Fighting Fantasy books might have been someones jumping on point as well.

Frank Mentzer took Tom Moldvays (RIP) version of Basic D&D and Larry Elmore (plus others) helped create the Basic D&D Red Box which was another jumping on point for people. He's (Mentzer) had mixed fortunes since his 'peak' with Basic D&D though.

From a more modern perspective (though he's getting on a bit now, as we all are...) Steve Kenson is talented and prolific. Aside from Mutants and Masterminds and Icons his contribution to lots of different games can be found on his website https://stevekenson.com/rpg-bibliography/

Ken St Andre came up with the first 'clone' of D&D (Tunnels and Trolls) a year or so after the original game came out and it was arguably easier to play and get into. Liz Danforth was a strong influence in the direction of Tunnels and Trolls and her art is top notch too. Tunnels and Trolls never really gained the popularity and wide spread appeal of D&D of course and these days is in a kind of limbo with the current IP owners doing nothing with it.

Not a contender but a personal favourite is Ray Winninger who was the head honcho of D&D design for a while but was responsible for tweaking/producing arguably the best Superhero game (that being DC Heroes 3rd Edition though I'm as much a fan of the Black box 2nd Edition and the 'once it's open you won't shut it again' 1st edition). Ray was ousted last year in the shake up.

Matt Sprange (Mongoose) was/were a prolific RPG publisher back in the day (just over twenty years ago) but concentrate on Traveller for the most part these days (with a few other lines listed on the site).

I suppose Kevin Crawford (Sine Nomine) is of the 'new breed' of influential RPG designers (Stars Without Number etc) who is notable for being more or less the 'poster child' of how to run a successful kickstarter. So much so that people generally sign up to buy whatever he's putting out as much because they know they will get it regardless of what the game is about. Professional, slick, 100% delivery rate and successful. He deserves his success and anyone contemplating kickstarter could learn a lot from the way he does things.
 
Jenx said:
Not a contender but a personal favourite is Ray Winninger who was the head honcho of D&D design for a while but was responsible for tweaking/producing arguably the best Superhero game (that being DC Heroes 3rd Edition though I'm as much a fan of the Black box 2nd Edition and the 'once it's open you won't shut it again' 1st edition). Ray was ousted last year in the shake up.
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Given that he left mere months before the OGL disaster, he was clearly the last smart person left in the room at WotC.
 
Ray Winninger also wrote Underground (actually released as “Ray Winninger’s Underground”), one of my favorites from the baroque post-WOD “peak rpg” period just before Magic: The Gathering ate everybody’s lunch and pretty much eviscerated the rpg hobby. It’s got absurdly high production values for the era, a super-lore-heavy original setting, and is full of “90s cool” attitude - quoting song lyrics, including shout outs to Chuck D and Rage Against The Machine and David Lynch and Quentin Tarantino in the acknowledgments section, etc. It’s also got a genuine social consciousness and point of view (and, alas, the dystopian future it depicted isn’t all that far off from what we’re now living through).

It wasn’t influential at all (not least because Mayfair Games canceled it and got out of the rpg business about a year after it was released) but it feels like in an alternate universe it should have been. IMO it took what was working for WW and Shadowrun but did it better and more interestingly.

So I thought it was pretty neat when he was hired to run the D&D line. Sadly, he got chewed up and spit out pretty quickly and (at least AFAICT) had little if any visible impact on the line (though from some recent Facebook posts it sounds like some changes he implemented (like emphasizing more in-house single author works instead of relying on a huge team of freelancers for everything) haven’t actually been seen by the public yet and will only show up in books to be released later in 2023).
 
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